A culture of non-communication

[Greywolf]

Is anyone getting frustrated at not being told what is going on?  I find there is a "culture of non-communication" in the military and it happens at all levels.  The lower ranks don't get told what is happening whenever there are taskings or exercises or anything...  it could be from what we are doing for PT tomorrow to what the duties for a tasking are...

There are instances where nobody knows what we are doing for PT, so half the troops will show up in PT gear thinking they are going for a run, the other half show up in combats with ruck thinking they're going for a ruck march.  The information is simply not passed down by whoever is in charge of these activities.  No one knows what's going on.  I've also been assigned to taskings where I am not told what I'm supposed to do...all they tell you is when and where to show up.  And when I ask about it, they'll tell you that you will be told when you get there.  And then there are also parades or PT or whatever where you show up and then you found out it was cancelled and that was decided not at that minute, but way before, but then you never got informed about it. 

Why is it that people can't just pass along the information, and not at the last minute?! 

 

[Britney Spears]

It's to simulate the fog of war and the confusion of actual battle. If you can't think on your feet when it comes for morning PT what will you do when the bullets start flying?  ;D

 

[Greywolf]

I think it's going to produce the opposite effect.  If troops are not given the orders from their superiors in the battlefield, then there really will be confusion because then you will have half the people doing one thing and the half doing something else.  It's not about thinking on your feet, that's what leadership is for, if there is no one there to lead (whose responsibility includes telling those under them what is happening), then the troops will just mill around and have to decide on their own the appropriate course of action. 

The example about the PT shows exactly that.  For something as simple as doing PT, there is no big problem...so half will go running and the other half will do a ruckmarch.  But in the real battlefield, that's not going to work. 

 

[Old Sweat]

I agree with Greywolf. It is a sign of disorganization and, dare I say, incompetence. Remember, surprise is a principle of war, but the aim is to surprise the enemy, not your own troops.

 

[Pikache]

I hear there's something in the 10 principles of leadership about keeping your followers informed.

Must be a misprint.

 

[Greywolf]

I think I'd be a better leader than a lot of the "leaders" we have.  I applied to get commissioned too...but then they said I haven't shown them I have leadership skills because I'm a private.

 

[swanita]

As a section commander or 2i/c, i've noticed that (in my unit anyways, can't speak for anyone else) even when trying to plan a training night a week in advance is a waste of time because someone always higher up has a "better idea" & then we sit around half the night & making up training minute-to-minute. A bit of a pain is the you know what, but i guess it's a continual exercise in "adapt and overcome"!!

All we can do is suck it up and carry on!! 

 

[Chimo]

If the troops at the lowest levels do not know what is going on, I place the fault at the SNCOs. This may seem harsh, but it is up to the 2 I/Cs, Section Commanders and Troop/Pl WOs to find that information and pass it on. There should never be confusion over things like what is going on for PT. The NCOs failing direction from there superiors should make the decision they think the superior would have made. The SNCO must also seek information and not simple wait for it to appear. Too often we SNCO tend to blame Officers for our failings.

 

[DBA]

Before troops are dismissed they should be told where and what they are doing next including contingency plans and how notification will be handled. If the work schedule doesn't easily accommodate a dismissal parade then posting the information in a timely manner in a spot easily checked by all works as well. NCOs must ask for and get this information so it can be passed on to the troops in a timely manner. Don't wait for it to be passed down as it often won't be if the officers are busy or assume it will be passed by other means.

ex. Tomorrow's PT is a ruck march from 07 till 09 weather permitting. Those just coming off exercise XXXXX are excused. If weather doesn't permit rucks will be left in building Y on the sides and circuit training will be done on the main floor. After PT everybody will be back by 10 for the day's tasks.

For exercises I find for the reserves anyway the instructions and orders for the exercise itself are often never passed on and all they get is the training orders contained in it as they are required. So higher ups have a schedule showing 2 days patrolling, 2 days defensive, 2 days bridge demo guard, 2 days airmobile assaults and 4 days FTX. The troops show up and get orders for patrolling only and end up living from order to order with no idea whats next till it comes. It doesn't work out well at all in my opinion as it builds no anticipation of the stuff they enjoy while trudging through parts they don't. They quickly become very passive as they have no idea whats going to happen next.

 

[Crimson Army]

Im not in the Army (yet) but from what i have seen it dose look like chaos, if the Army were more organized it would get alot more done eh?  :warstory:

 

[pbi]

IMHO there is a serious problem in the Res with the passage of information. I base my comments on my own past experience as a Res soldier and as unit RSS, but more currently on my recent tour as COS of a Res CBG. Speaking from Bde perspective, I can assure you that we saw the Info fight as just about our most important fight. We employed a number of different methods to get information down to the Armoury floor, ranging from the standard method of face-to-face with COs and unit staff by SAVs and conferences, through monthly teleconferences by Comd and by COS, web-site, Bde newsletter, posters, paystub inserts, electronic signs, e-mails to COs civ workplaces and homes,  Comd visits to units, etc. And yet, when I visited units I was sometimes shocked by the utter lack of understanding at the lower levels. I was sometimes given the old ".50 cal fingertip" in pokey-chest by righteously indignant Res soldiers, only to realize partway through the conversation that the person actually had either no idea at all, or a very distorted one, of the facts. Something had broken down between the origin of the info at Bde level and the NCO/soldier at the end of the chain. I think that the factors that contribute to this problem are:

a) Officers and NCOs actually missing from the chain of command, due to difficulties in training and then retaining soldiers in these ranks. This means either that things simply do not happen, or that somebody else picks up the slack;

b) Unpredictable attendance. Although every Res unit has a solid core of regular attenders who form the backbone of the unit, it has a varying number of soldiers (at differing rank levels) who attend sporadically and unpredictably. This makes info passage to them or through them difficult;

c) Time. The Army gives the Res soldier a basic 37.5 days per year on the Armoury floor. Within this time, offrs and NCOs have to plan, train and lead their soldiers. Now, we all know that Res leaders have to come in a lot more than that, just to stay ahead, and we know that this time is not always paid (We had one CO who refused to sign in for extra days as he felt he was stealing from his soldiers). Even so, the time to do all the coordination and info passage that a military activity requires is in very short supply. A drill night, for example, is often a hectic and unproductive waste of three hours. Add factor b) above and it gets worse;

d) Unrealistic expectations from higher HQs. Although we tried hard as a Bde HQ to avoid overloading a unit's OODA loop with "short fuze" demands, staff checks, etc. the fact is that these are often driven from above. As any good HQ staff should do, we tried to act as a "shit umbrella" or "deccelerator" but again you can only do that part of the time. The result is that information is sometimes moving, and piling up, faster than the Res unit can deal with it. Frequently we found that the higher the HQ, the more ridiculous the turnaround time; and

e) "Job" orientation by some Res. I have noticed this more in the last three years than I did when I was on RSS (86-89) or as a Res myself back in the 70s. In short, we seem to have bred a mindset in some people that serving in the Res is just a part time job, whose responsibiities and duties end at the Armoury door. These people seem to resist the idea that, for example, a Section Comd should call up his troops before a drill night and pass on required info, urge them to turn out, and prepare an attendance estimate. In fact, I bhad one person tell me that to call Res soldiers at home would be "harrassment". The result (IMHO) is that info that needs to be passed to individuals before training sessions never moves. Equally, there seems to be little motivation on the part of people to seek info that they need: they passively accept being a mushroom.

I have described how we tried to fight the Info fight, but I have to admit that we had mixed success. Any better ideas?

Cheers

DJB

 

[2 Cdo]

If the mentality of some reservists is such that a sect comd calling up his troops before a parade night to get some info is labelled "harassment", then our reserves are in even worse shape than I thought! I would like to think that is not the norm, just some useless sh*tpump who screams harassment every 10 seconds!

That being said, sadly it seems to be true of a majority of units that I have served with suffer from this lack of communication. It seems to be almost childish along the lines of "Ive got a secret" nonsense. It is almost a daily chore to track down what is happening the next day/week whatever, and many times things get changed when you already planned for something else!

All I can say is keep YOURSELF informed as best you can through your chain of command and ALWAYS prepare for the inevitable fastball that you know is coming!

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Regretfully its not just the army that has this problem. The navy is plagued with HODS and CHODS not informing their bodies whats going on and then get upset when something they should have passed on to get done is not done.

 

[Acorn]

e) "Job" orientation by some Res. I have noticed this more in the last three years than I did when I was on RSS (86-89) or as a Res myself back in the 70s. In short, we seem to have bred a mindset in some people that serving in the Res is just a part time job, whose responsibiities and duties end at the Armoury door. These people seem to resist the idea that, for example, a Section Comd should call up his troops before a drill night and pass on required info, urge them to turn out, and prepare an attendance estimate. In fact, I bhad one person tell me that to call Res soldiers at home would be "harrassment". The result (IMHO) is that info that needs to be passed to individuals before training sessions never moves. Equally, there seems to be little motivation on the part of people to seek info that they need: they passively accept being a mushroom.

I've heard (first hand) of individuals expecting to be paid for the time they spend on the phone. Perhaps they don't take into account those half and full days where they never actually did six or more hours.

Acorn

 

[OLD F of S]

      The most important thing is to keep your troops up to date. Your best resource is the troops that
work for and with you. As an example when we deployed to Hati in early 90s we were short on HF gear
by keeping the troops in the know a CPL came up with a solution to modify our training equipment to allow the mission to be carried out. I can't stress enough to SNR NCOs inform your troops they are your biggest assets to completing the job.



                                    Regards OLD F of S

 

[PJ D-Dog]

Communication and planning has always been the key to success.  When I was in the P Res, I spent many hours on my own planning and communicating with people in order to make sure the training night went off without any major glitches.

If the SNCOs are planning the night's training when they show up, then they are not doing their job.  In my old unit, the officers and SNCOs had to show up on an admin night which was actually a training prep night for the following training night.  At one point, the training had fallen so short of the mark, that I took it over completely and I would produce a quarterly training plan for the battery.  This was based on the Regimental training plan which was produced through the directives coming out of bridgade HQ.  I would break down the training year in quarters and gear the training to meet the overall training objectives.

These quarterly training plans were detailed schedules which included dates, times and locations for each training event on a training night.  I would also assign instructors and back up instructors for each period of instruction/training event on the schedule.  When I was done, I handed it into the Battery Command for his approval.  Once it had his signature on it, I would distribute it to all members of the unit.  I would then make sure that key soldiers involved in conducting the training had everything they needed to get the training done for the following training night.  The key here is to set the wheels in motion and let them roll while keeping an eye on it.  I was always preparing for the the next training session as opposed to showing up with a blank sheet on a training night.

Now, there were some hick-ups from time to time, but I made it clear to my chain of command that I controlled training and that all events to be held had to be scheduled in advacne through me in order to make sure it got done correctly.  I spent most of my time coordinating everything.  My goal was to make the training flow smoothly and to hide any glitches from the junior soldiers.  There was no reason for them to see a disorganized mess at the higher level as this would affect their morale and motiviation to show up for training.

There are solutions to the communication problems but you have to be willing to work hard in order to overcome them.  And yes, I put in far more hours then I was paid for but the end result was always worth it.  I kept on telling my chain of command that we only had three hours a week to train soldiers.  That's a pretty tall order and after repeating it over and over, they finally understood what I meant.  "We only have three hours a week to train SOLDIERS".

As for attendance, it's hit or miss.  I found our attendance increased when soldiers knew what was going on in advance and when training was conducted professionally.  Idle threats from the BSM to charge anyone who didn't show up without first calling or making arrangements didn't work as he never followed through with it.  We had to adopt an attitude where we trained whoever showed up.  Not once did you cancel training events/lectures for lack of attendance.  You have to be max flex.  In the Marines we call it "semper gumby".

At the end of the training evening on final parade, I would recap all the good training we had and go over some admin points for the next week, reminding everyone of what was on the schedule.  In the Marine Corps, we do this at the end of every day.  We pass word for the next day and then secure them for the day.  If this is not taking place in the CF regular component, then there is a serious leadership issue although it could be addressed with a review of leadership traits and principles.  You can sugget this to your chain of command and let them know there is a problems.  Often, they are so caught up in their own job they forget the effects of poor communication on the troops.  If you are a junior leader, then go over the leadership principles with your section on a regular basis.  Train them to think in those terms so that when they grow up in the army, they will have the tools in their tool box to be more effective.

PJ D-Dog

 

[Edward Campbell]

Communication and planning has always been the key to success.

...

I found our attendance increased when soldiers knew what was going on in advance and when training was conducted professionally.

... on final parade, I would recap all the good training we had and go over some admin points for the next week, reminding everyone of what was on the schedule.   In the Marine Corps, we do this at the end of every day.   We pass word for the next day and then secure them for the day.   If this is not taking place in the CF regular component, then there is a serious leadership issue although it could be addressed with a review of leadership traits and principles.   You can sugget this to your chain of command and let them know there is a problems.   Often, they are so caught up in their own job they forget the effects of poor communication on the troops.   If you are a junior leader, then go over the leadership principles with your section on a regular basis.   Train them to think in those terms so that when they grow up in the army, they will have the tools in their tool box to be more effective.

PJ D-Dog

From my long retired position I agree with PJ D-Dog, but I would change it to:

"I found everything worked better when soldiers knew what was going on in advance and when our business was conducted professionally."

I can state that in my current job - managing a diverse group of quite independent professionals - the same holds true.  I get things to go my way because I use tried and true old army techniques - not shouting and stomping, but planning, informing, checking, coaching, corrrecting and praising, now and again.

 

[CH1]

All are great posts.  Even when I CFR'd in 85, there was still courses on IT.  There can be varied reasons why ppl do not inform their charges of what is up & coming.  I guess it falls on the individual who is conducting the trg.  And not every body that is an instructor, is suited to be.

Mr. Campbell, you probably remember the RSM & his "boot".  In some ways I am glad that the "old days" are gone.  I did more than a lap or 2 with full pack & C1 over head on the parade square.

But at the end of the day, we knew what we were going to be doing.

Not wanting to review IT 101, suffice it to say end your class with some praise, & state what is expected for the next class.

Cheers

 

[JBC]

The college has communications problems as well. For example there are presently about 100 (give or take) cadets in St. Jean right now doing SLT. A question about leaves dates was sent of the chain and the response was..."Tell them to look at their leave passes"  Comical at first...except a good portion were told to return on the 22 Aug for more SLT and the rest were told to cool their heels until the 29th (even though they made need further SLT just as badly) The point I'm not sure that our senior staff even realize what the SLT requirement was suppose to be for this training summer.

Things like leave time should not be this complicated particularly when there are only handful of staff that really make things happen at the place. You'd would think the right hand would...well you know...same old story. Amen

 

[aesop081]

Im not in the Army (yet) but from what i have seen it dose look like chaos, if the Army were more organized it would get alot more done eh?   :warstory:

Well,

aren't you just a bundle of insightful, productive, well- thought out comments