5D Release

[gargaflute]

Hello there

I'm brand new to this site so please forgive me if similar threads already exist.

Here's my story;

I joined the regular forces in January 2002 as an infantry officer. I was 21 at the time and didn't have a degree. I think my entry program was CEOTP or something like that. I had to finish my degree part time over my 9 year contract.

I did BOTC at St-Jean and graduated in May 2002. I then went to Gagetown and did CAP, I managed to pass. Then I went on phase III infantry in winter 2003 and failed during the last week. I didn't deserve to pass anyway so I won't dwell on that. I asked for an appointment with the BPSO and he basically told me that I couldn't do anything else since I didn't have a degree. So I was recoursed and went to University part-time for the summer and fall. I re-did phase III infantry in winter 2004 and got hurt during the 5th week. I met the BPSO again and tried to get a transfer. I even asked if I could go NCO and once again, I was stuck and couldn't do anything. I went to university part-time again during fall 2004.

I submitted my release in january 2005. My reason was that I wanted to finish my degree and that I wasn’t a good person military-wise (yeah I know, stupid me). I got accepted at Bishop's University and my semester was starting on the 3rd of September 2005.

In late July I finally received my release package which stated that I was to be released under item 5d)

5d) Not Advantageously Employable:  “who, either wholly or chiefly because of the conditions of military life or other factors beyond his control, develops personal weaknesses or has domestic or other personal problems that seriously impair his usefulness to or impose an excessive administrative burden on the Canadian Forces".

The platoon 2IC told me that I could fill a "complaint" (there was a specific name for that document but I can't remember it). But of course, doing so was gonna push my release date and I was 6 weeks away from starting university, so I signed to thing and officially got released on the 7th of august 2005.

I graduated with a major in psychology and a minor in Spanish. After I graduated, I taught English in South Korea for a year. I then travelled over 3 continents for 5 months. I’m 29 now and I work as a social worker. I speak French, English and Spanish fluently (French being my mother tongue), and I can also get by in Korean. I’m healthy, in good physical shape, no criminal record and my credit is good.

I re-applied as an Intelligence officer for the navy reserve a few weeks ago. All of my tests went well and I didn’t have to redo the aptitude test because it was still valid and I qualified for every trade.

However, during the interview, the captain (a vandoo guy) told me that my file had to go to Ottawa to get an “enrolment exemption” due to my 5d release (exemption d'enrôlement dû à votre libération 5D). He told me that I had a really good interview and strongly suggested that I’d be re-enrolled, but that’s only what he said, doesn’t mean much in the military world I know that.

So anyone could tell me what my chances are? Anyone had a similar story?

Cheers

 

[McG]

I've never seen a 5d.  However, the ones to worry about are 5f or anything starting in a 2 (neither of which are you).
Based on what the CFRC told you, I would stay confident. 

 

[ArmyRick]

I have seen many 5Ds releases. They are not good.

 

[gargaflute]

Thanks for the info

ArmyRick, could you be more precise? Story, when, why he released/got released.

Cheers

 

[gargaflute]

They just called me and I've been hired. Never back down I guess.

 

[ringknocker82]

Congratulations on getting back in, that's great!  I just have a question that I'm hoping someone can answer for me.  I'm in a very similar position as you, but my situation differs in that I was released on a 3B (medical), graduated from RMC (with full honours) and I was commissioned prior to being medically released. When I was released I was given a medical category of 2, therefore, there are jobs like Logistics for which I qualify. I did BOTC in the summer of 2002 and I'm just wondering if I will have to do BMOQ or a portion of it?  Anyways, if someone could help me out here, I would really appreciate it.  Thanks      

 

[clericalchronicals]

Congratulations on getting back in, that's great!  I just have a question that I'm hoping someone can answer for me.  I'm in a very similar position as you, but my situation differs in that I was released on a 3B (medical), graduated from RMC (with full honours) and I was commissioned prior to being medically released. When I was released I was given a medical category of 2, therefore, there are jobs like Logistics for which I qualify. I did BOTC in the summer of 2002 and I'm just wondering if I will have to do BMOQ or a portion of it?  Anyways, if someone could help me out here, I would really appreciate it.  Thanks      

I know the name has changed many a time...however, I am under the understanding that BMOQ Mod 1 = IAP and BMOQ Mod 2 = BOTC.  I would also tend to think that if that is the correct statement, that you would have already passed "IAP".  So if ALL of that is correct, then no.  You would be qualified BMOQ.

 

[clericalchronicals]

Congrats on getting back in, by the way!

 

[ringknocker82]

Thank you for the response clericalchronicals. Turns out you were right and I won't be required to do any portion of BMOQ. Thanks.

 

[clericalchronicals]

Thank you for the response clericalchronicals. Turns out you were right and I won't be required to do any portion of BMOQ. Thanks.

Glad it all worked out for ya!

 

[Lobb]

I have the same question but mine is for a 5(f) release, I want to rejoin and my CSM told me when I was being released that it's not the end of the world, I would have to wait  2 years to be able to apply to the Army again and to be bondable. I was curious if anyone has been able to get back in with a 5(f) as well.

 

[BC Old Guy]

It all depends on what your 5f release was for.  The CFRC staff will have some basic info about why the 5f release was made in the first place, then will ask you specific questions about the circumstances and what you have done to address the issues.  Since enrollments is by competition, the probability of your re-enrollment depends on the other applicants across the country, and the number of vacancies in the occupation, and the evidence you can provide that the issues that related to the original 5f release have been resolved.

 

[chimobaby81]

I am wondering if anyone can assist me finding out the differences between a 5F and a 5D. I mean not what the description of each are but the pro's of going for a 5D instead of a 5F. I know there are some but i can't seem to locate even semi-specific details. Cheemoski.

 

[dapaterson]

Find QR&O chapter 15 and read the descriptions.

 

[Biohazardxj]

Neither one is good but if I had to choose I would say a 5D would be better than a 5F.  If you read the description of each a 5D states "beyond the control of the member"  where as a 5F states "within the control of the member". 

 

[cwurts]

My experience in BMQ was not good.  I was harassed and insulted by my instructors for the first 7 weeks, then they failed me on a Morning Inspection Evaluation.  I took the barrage of insults in stride, partly because I thought it was a regular part of drill, and partly because I really believed they were finding things about my drill that needed improvement.  But 95% of the other recruits were not getting the kind of flack I was.  The failed inspection resulted in me appearing before a progress review board.  I had assumed that this was a formality, and that I would return to training, but I was still under enormous stress at the prospect of losing my job.  Unbelievably, the progress review board decided not only to take me off course, but that I should not be recoursed either.  Instead I was released from the CF.  I was told by another member that I could reapply in six months, but when I tried to re-enroll, I kept hitting a brick wall.  Not until five years later did I find out it was the very fact I was released on 5d that was blocking my enrollment.  Back when the PRB had decided to release me, I had immediately filed a redress.  Six months later I had not heard anything more on the redress, except that they were still working on it, so I gave up on ever getting it settled.  Five years after I was released, I tried to re-enroll, and discovered the 5d issue.  So I called the Ombudsman, who told me I had to find out the standing of my redress.  It turns out the initial authority had reached a decision two-and-a-half years after the redress was filed, and sent it to my old address.  Just recently, I received the IA decision, signed it, and sent it off to the Final Authority.  I am still waiting to hear from them. 

I am not in a good situation financially.  I joined the CF at a time in my life when I had exhausted my student loan, and had no job prospects to show for it.  I had spent the last ten years shifting between unemployment and minimum wage jobs (which was $6/hr back then).  I saw the CF as an opportunity to have a regular job with regular pay, where I would be doing a variety of things, instead of monotonous tasks.  After I was released, I spent the next two years unsuccessfully trying to re-enroll, and I was never able to recover and find gainful employment anywhere else.  Generally, gainful employment requires a few good references from recent employers, which I am not likely to receive from the CF.

This situation has caused enormous problems for me personally.  I am unemployed and making $529/month on income assistance.  My rent alone is $575, and my parents, who have been sending me the extra money I need, can not do so indefinitely.  All this was the result of a one bad evaluation by a single instructor, which was then documented on paper, and every officer since, who gets their hands on the papers to make a decision, simply repeats the original findings of the instructor, whose word, apparently, must always be accepted over the  recruit's, without question.

I feel like I am trapped in a small corner of the Canadian Forces, and the same group of people are handing my files around, and getting nothing done.  I hope I can get through to someone here, who has the intelligence to realize this is unacceptable, and is willing to help me.  I find it hard to believe the entire institution of the Canadian Forces is this full of crap.

 

[brihard]

Knowing only one side of the story, the odds are slim that anyone will be able to offer you anything useful for your situation. You can expect some serious doubt- most of us are well aware of how difficult it is to have a candidate dropped from course, and how relatively rare it is for such an individual to not get another kick at the cat. I for one do not feel the entire story is being presented here.

As you've chosen this particular venue to vent you can probably expect some pretty heavy scepticism in pretty short order. If you're looking for anything more than the simple catharsis of bashing that post out, I suggest you steel yourself to answer some tough questions.

 

[Good2Golf]

All this was the result of a one bad evaluation by a single instructor, which was then documented on paper, and every officer since, who gets their hands on the papers to make a decision, simply repeats the original findings of the instructor, whose word, apparently, must always be accepted over the  recruit's, without question.

Having been a BMOQ instructor (the principles of training and evaluation are the same as for BMQ), I have a very hard time believing that a single morning inspection failure resulted in a PRB.  I had one candidate released under a 5D and I can assure you it was for far more than a single inspection failure.  I think there is more to this than you are portraying.

Regards
G2G

 

[medicineman]

In my experience, there are 3 sides to every story - yours, their's and the truth.  Most people that I've run into that have had 5(d) releases in Recruit School are not adapting for some reason or other or simply don't meet the standards required.  When I hear that people in BMQ/BMOQ were singly harrassed and nobody else was, I have to say my BS meter starts piniging a bit.  Everyone in some way or form is "harrassed" in Basic - it's how stress is generated to see if you can adapt to it, since the law forbids your instructors to shoot at you or punch or kick you, etc.  People that are screwing up for one reason or another tend to bear the brunt of more simply because the instructors want to see how the preson reacts to being told/shown that they're deficient in some way.  Things have changed somewhat since I went through 20 odd years ago, maybe for the better, who knows, but I do know that these days, recruits are read the riot act with regards to what constitutes harrassment, bullying, abuse of authority, etc.  I also do know that when reports are written on recruits, your section commander is writing based not only on their observations, but those of all the staff in the platoon, so when you get sent up for a PRB, the report that is written is a fair assessment of what they've all observed.  More often than not, it has been discussed, en masse, by the instructor cadre of your platoon before going up the chain.

The CF doesn't owe you a job - if however you feel you were wronged, by all means pursue it and if you're found to be in the right, hopefully they'll reinstate you and allow you to try again.  I've done recruit medicals on a number of re-enrollees that were previously 5(d) releases, and alot of them shouldn't have been allowed back - they had personality issues that wouldn't allow them to adapt to the training or the lifestyle.  Lots of red flags went up with them during the interviews - they related similar stories as you or others where everyone but them were at fault.  There are others that got themselves straightened out - those usually had issues of things either within or beyond their control on home front, etc that made them burdensome to the system, but they fixed them and were let back in.

In the end, if you do get back in, be ready for it mentally, because it won't be any easier...and the eagle eyes will be focused on you to make sure you do in fact perform, because you're not going to get a freebie just because you won a redress at a ministerial level.

Cheers.

MM

 

[Jarnhamar]

Honestly man when I read this I'm inclined to feel there were some very serious reasons for you not to be in the CF and the instructors used a formality to get you released.
Generally speaking, we've all seen it.  Guys and girls show up, they have attitudes, aren't team players, don't take criticism well and are basically a throne in EVERYONE's side.  90% of the instructors time is spent on 10% of the students kind of thing.  They shouldn't be in the CF, everyone agrees but it takes an act of God to get them removed.


Yours is a sad story. If your version of events are accurate and some guy just had it out for you then you fell through the cracks I'm sure I'm not the only one who has sympathy for you. That said experience tells me that people who "don't know what they did wrong" are either lying or really don't realize just how much they were messing up and that they shouldn't be in the CF in the first place.