The end of Kiwi shoe polish?

[dapaterson]

I'd rather the RCN focus on warfighting ability.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I'd rather the RCN focus on warfighting ability.

Fair comment.

How about you have the chat with GAC then, that gets the RCN off the diplomatic circuit?

Your guns are pointed in the wrong direction.

 

[dimsum]

Keep your RCAF heresy to yourself.

Canadian Army Dress Instructions Chapter 5 Section 3 General Guidelines- Army Service Dress- Para 21:

I notice they don’t say how to clean/shine them.

Leather Lustre wins again

I'd rather the RCN focus on warfighting ability.

I’m pretty sure that the majority of the RCN would agree with you.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Just a small personal comment on the idea that we should dispense with the DEU altogether: It is a very army centric idea.

Not necessarily us my friend. You'll hear more moans of displeasure from our blue clad partners in the RCAF about DEU than anywhere else.

Most people I know in the Army are kind of intrigued, if not excited, for Army Service Dress to roll out. We too know how much of an ass you make the organization look when you show up to the party under dressed (I remember watching our contingent for the Polish Armed Forces Day parade be the only ones in operational dress, "because who needs DEU to go on a tour?").

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Fair comment.

How about you have the chat with GAC then, that gets the RCN off the diplomatic circuit?

Your guns are pointed in the wrong direction.

To be fair, using warships in diplomatic support role has been a thing since the 1700's. Both with alcohol and gunpowder.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I'd rather the RCN focus on warfighting ability.

What makes you think it is not? Anyone sailing on a RCN ship will realize quickly that it is the focus of the RCN (why do you think you constantly see comments here by RCN engineers saying that we drive the frigates like they were stolen?).

But again, your comment is Army centric. Unlike the Army and RCAF, merely by sailing we are "off-base" and in the world either in the eyes of the Canadian public or, on the high seas and foreign waters, in the eyes of all foreigners. On the great commons of the high seas, we not only represent Canada, we ARE Canada. Our mere presence in and of itself is a diplomatic act in peacetime. It tells the world "we are here, exercising those rights international laws grant us and stand ready to protect Canadian interests".

Perhaps immersion for all these years in the maritime world makes it difficult for sailors to communicate to the other elements how foreign the maritime world is from the land based ones and it is our fault for not breaking through that barrier.

I came to that realization a long while ago but some times ago, not too long, I believe that it was by Infanteer, there was a post in one of the fora here that put it all in perspective for me. In that post, he described the "area" of concern/responsibility of that various Army units It started with platoon at about half a kilometres and ended with theatre level command with an area of about 100 to 200 kilometres.

It really drove home that we are in different worlds. At 100 km on a warship, I am in a knife fight. As a frigate CO, I am worried about what's one thousand or two kilometres from me, because at a closing speed of 24-25 knots (a comfortable 12 knots on each side), I am meeting that threat in about 24 hours. I won't even go into AAW where the knife fight starts around 250-300 km and I'd rather have a few thousand kilometres warning of an oncoming raid. To navies, a full ocean, like the North-Atlantic is a single theatre of war and treated as such.

 

[dimsum]

Not necessarily us my friend. You'll hear more moans of displeasure from our blue clad partners in the RCAF about DEU than anywhere else.

That’s because our DEU is…not great. I’ve been at ceremonies with our RAF, RAAF, and RNZAF friends, and we definitely look like the odd ones out.

Not as bad as the USAF uniform, but that’s a pretty low bar.

Most people I know in the Army are kind of intrigued, if not excited, for Army Service Dress to roll out. We too know how much of an ass you make the organization look when you show up to the party under dressed (I remember watching our contingent for the Polish Armed Forces Day parade be the only ones in operational dress, "because who needs DEU to go on a tour?").

As I’ve mentioned before, I think this is more of an “I don’t wear it more than once or twice a year, so why have it?” perspective. Many CAF folks also think DEU is only with tunic, not 3B. How many folks outside the NCR wear 3B even once a year?

Ask those folks if they would show up at Remembrance Day downtown in combats rather than DEU, and the answers may be different.

 

[markppcli]

Shouldn't this be in the Russel Williams thread?

Why? What’s the relationship between him and female CAF uniform policy?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

That’s because our DEU is…not great. I’ve been at ceremonies with our RAF, RAAF, and RNZAF friends, and we definitely look like the odd ones out.

Not as bad as the USAF uniform, but that’s a pretty low bar.

Yes its very much a "lowest bidderism" me thinks. Hence why I was pleasantly suprised at the Army Service Uniform prototype looking good.

As I’ve mentioned before, I think this is more of an “I don’t wear it more than once or twice a year, so why have it?” perspective. Many CAF folks also think DEU is only with tunic, not 3B. How many folks outside the NCR wear 3B even once a year?

Ask those folks if they would show up at Remembrance Day downtown in combats rather than DEU, and the answers may be didifferent.

I think part of this is also a hangover from Unification. The Canadian Army historically paraded in either operational dress or Full Dress/Patrols up until the Cold War. The concept of a "Service Dress" in the CA was brought home from England and became another uniform in the closet for most.

Add to it that prior to our Combat uniform being developed, operational dress still was more "dress" than "operational". Once th3 CF Greens came into play; a mangled mish-mash of Service Dresses from all 3 elements without practical use... well here we see why the Army leaned hard into operational dress for garrison and sees DEU as a parade uniform.

My opinion?

-Operational Dress for field/garrison jobs that require a work dress
-Army Service Uniform for HQ/Staff jobs that ride a desk
-Full Dress Uniform with accoutrements for parades and ceremonial. Every CA member gets 1 x issue on your clothing docs for return at the end of it all.

Your points allocation for each would be based on position filled:
-Clerk in an HQ? Have points towards ASU items and your ECU can be used for a range day here or there.
-Bending wrenches at LdSH(RC) you better believe you're getting your fill of ECU items. You can wear your Full Dress for Trooping the Colour, and you have 1 x Set ASU ready in its packaging as needed if you need it.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Why? What’s the relationship between him and female CAF uniform policy?

Its universal now. No female/male any more with uniform pieces.

 

[GR66]

Why? What’s the relationship between him and female CAF uniform policy?

Because he took pictures of himself wearing the women's lingerie from the homes he broke into....hence the 4" stiletto heels in DEU.

Too soon?

 

[markppcli]

Because he took pictures of himself wearing the women's lingerie from the homes he broke into....hence the 4" stiletto heels in DEU.

Too soon?

No, I just don’t know that his name needs more mention. He’s a murdering piece of shit and I hope his name is forgotten for the rest of time. I don’t think he stilettos or DEUs so the joke was just … I dunno this dude wore ladies underwear one time haha.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

No, I just don’t know that his name needs more mention. He’s a murdering piece of shit and I hope his name is forgotten for the rest of time. I don’t think he stilettos or DEUs so the joke was just … I dunno this dude wore ladies underwear one time haha.

Mr. Williams is a blight on the CAF because he was a sexual predator and murderer. His other pass times, while not my thing, wouldnt have caught the ire of anyone if it were his own garments and in his own private life.

If CAF members wear stillettos, lace undergarments, leather chaps, biker vests, fur suits, or whatever the hell else they wish as grown adults in their own time... not a care of mine. Be a good human, be safe, and report for work the next morning.

If they are wearing CAF DEU 3 with a skirt, pumps or flats as ordered. Doesn't matter if they are cis, transgender, non-binary, or whatnot: Maintain the standards as set and I will enforce them as such.

 

[GR66]

No, I just don’t know that his name needs more mention. He’s a murdering piece of shit and I hope his name is forgotten for the rest of time. I don’t think he stilettos or DEUs so the joke was just … I dunno this dude wore ladies underwear one time haha.

You of course are correct. Failed attempt at levity was in poor taste.

 

[Ostrozac]

Last funeral I went to I was the only one in a suit n tie.

A shocking non-zero amount wore athleisure.

What we currently consider a formal business suit was almost considered a form of ‘athleisure‘ back when introduced, hence the term ‘lounge suit’. Fashion changes over time. Civilian fashion tends to change faster than military fashion, but it’s all still fashion.

As I’ve said before, given the amount of time and energy that the CAF devotes to uniforms, you’d think we’d have two things: a sponsored postgrad to the London College of Fashion so we’d have experts to help us actually know what we’re doing, and a supply system that is actually capable of providing those uniforms in the correct sizes.

 

[dimsum]

As I’ve said before, given the amount of time and energy that the CAF devotes to uniforms, you’d think we’d have two things: a sponsored postgrad to the London College of Fashion so we’d have experts to help us actually know what we’re doing, and a supply system that is actually capable of providing those uniforms in the correct sizes.

We have a world-renowned Canadian athletics brand that can make our uniforms.

 

[dapaterson]

We have a world-renowned Canadian athletics brand that can make our uniforms.

View attachment 82170

I've seen Naval Warfare Officers. They would not be complimented by Lululemon attire.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

If you don't wear the "right outfit" or keep to a certain standard in many civilian professions, than you can bet you either won't get the job or will not advance. The public expects a certain amount of uniformity and presentation while in uniform. Relaxing standards is one thing, taking the standards out into the alley and shooting them in the head is another. Relaxing the standards has gone in full ahead because it's about the only thing the military really has control over and is far easier than fixing systemic problems.

If you're a company officer where I work, the expectation in the Office is suit jacket at a minimum:

When I'm in the field, it's collared shirt and slacks, even when I myself am working in the field. It's a perception and an image the Company wants its Officers to project.

It's the same in the mining, oil & gas, forestry, etc. No business leader shows up looking like a slob or with purple hair.

CAF dress standards are completely out of touch now with the Corporate World.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I've seen Naval Warfare Officers. They would not be complimented by Lululemon attire.

I look great in Lululemon FYI

 

[FSTO]

I've seen Naval Warfare Officers. They would not be complimented by Lululemon attire.

You’re an asshole.