Minister Anand announces investment of up to $3.7 billion to supply operational clothing and footwear to the Canadian Armed Forces

[foresterab]

Feeling left out from participating in yet another thread derail...

Or maybe Emergency Preparedness Canada should store modular facilities that can be set up wherever they are required in an emergency (soccer field, farmer's field, empty lot, etc.) and not be bound to where the Armoury is located or to any other existing building which may be damaged/unusable in case of a natural disaster?

Off the top of my head some of this infrastructure already exists within the Wildfire world

In Alberta we contract via 3rd parties for camps to be installed, within 24 hours of first call, anywhere in the province up to 250? person capacity. That's Command Post, wash cars, and kitchen/dining hall + a very limited number of private rooms. Call up Horizon North, to name one company, and as long as you are willing to meet their costs it's pretty amazing how almost any flat surface can be used. There are multiple ICP posts that can also be deployed as a single ATCO trailer sized unit that the province owns along with pre-packed warehouse set ups up to and including a field refurbishment trailer.

British Columbia uses a mix of in house camp facilities (kitchen, mess tent, some wall tents, washrooms) that they own, set up and maintain or, if short, uses 3rd party contracts to supply incidents. Outfits such as tree planting contractors are a common source of kitchens/dining/wash car set up with washrooms via porta pottie rental and other supports. Standard cargo trailers are often used as warehouses and/or local depots depending on options.

Ontario has a set of trailers that are modified standard cargo trailers converted into tiny individual bunk rooms. Pull up and it's 10? rooms per trailer plus another for washcar. There is less emphasis upon dining facilities as they tend to camp their crews on the line more than BC/AB and so it's more about delivery of groceries to crews than setting up a mess hall.

There is a lot of discussion however going on in regards to emergency response as not all hazards are as integrated as wildfire agencies are and frankly the funding/capacity varies widely. I would however rather focus upon smaller, helicopter portable materials than expensive hardwall trailers that require large trucks to access areas because those are often the resources tougher to get than a hall/building etc. Ranger tents are an excellent investment in my mind as they can be used for multiple incident types up to and including medical aid triage buildings as are items such as cots that are needed to convert facilities like hockey rinks to evacuation centers.

However as any emergency is multiple level - local emergency -> municipal emergency, -> provincial emergency -> National emergency I believe there is also an obligation for those parties below the federal government to be responsible instead of only relying up the federal gov't which is a) not well distributed nationally in terms of presence and b) will be slower than lower levels to respond. Emergency Preparedness Canada does have a role to play in helping to coordinate certification consistency and training in the same manner than FEMA in the USA has worked with the USFS/BLM/NP to ensure consistency in certification processes and needs. You can take different courses through each agency but they are all clearly spelled out that you will have FEMA course X or USFS course Y for this process and are recognized as peer equivalent.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Try Wellington House at Stadacona. Not an armouries but creepy as f$$k, especially the lower floors (shudder).

Wellington House is creepy AF when you're doing rounds in there at 3am.

It's condemned now. Empty and full of birds. I think they are hoping it will fall down.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Wellington House is creepy AF when you're doing rounds in there at 3am.

It's condemned now. Empty and full of birds. I think they are hoping it will fall down.

Back in the early 2000s, I was a Cl B bum and lived on the top floor for a bit after the old C&Ps was ripped down...definitely NOT my fav place. I heard stories about nurse ghosts and some other stuff and...never slept sound there after that. There were a few times 'someone was walking down the hall' and yet there was no one living in my end of that floor...

 

[OldSolduer]

Speaking of ghosts the Officers' Mess at CFB Cornwallis was supposedly haunted. The story is that the lady in question was jilted and she took her own life.

SAY...maybe there is a fat consultant fee to rid the infrastructure of spirits.....

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

. I think they are hoping it will fall down.

Happens a lot actually, saves the asbestos and mold clean up required. A case in point is the old Guelph jail, it needs to be abated before it can be demolished, but if it falls down and/or becomes a hazard, it can just be finished off and hauled away. Something about saving millions of dollars makes the particles escaping from it safer I guess.

 

[Kirkhill]

Off the top of my head some of this infrastructure already exists within the Wildfire world

In Alberta we contract via 3rd parties for camps to be installed, within 24 hours of first call, anywhere in the province up to 250? person capacity. That's Command Post, wash cars, and kitchen/dining hall + a very limited number of private rooms. Call up Horizon North, to name one company, and as long as you are willing to meet their costs it's pretty amazing how almost any flat surface can be used. There are multiple ICP posts that can also be deployed as a single ATCO trailer sized unit that the province owns along with pre-packed warehouse set ups up to and including a field refurbishment trailer.

British Columbia uses a mix of in house camp facilities (kitchen, mess tent, some wall tents, washrooms) that they own, set up and maintain or, if short, uses 3rd party contracts to supply incidents. Outfits such as tree planting contractors are a common source of kitchens/dining/wash car set up with washrooms via porta pottie rental and other supports. Standard cargo trailers are often used as warehouses and/or local depots depending on options.

Ontario has a set of trailers that are modified standard cargo trailers converted into tiny individual bunk rooms. Pull up and it's 10? rooms per trailer plus another for washcar. There is less emphasis upon dining facilities as they tend to camp their crews on the line more than BC/AB and so it's more about delivery of groceries to crews than setting up a mess hall.

There is a lot of discussion however going on in regards to emergency response as not all hazards are as integrated as wildfire agencies are and frankly the funding/capacity varies widely. I would however rather focus upon smaller, helicopter portable materials than expensive hardwall trailers that require large trucks to access areas because those are often the resources tougher to get than a hall/building etc. Ranger tents are an excellent investment in my mind as they can be used for multiple incident types up to and including medical aid triage buildings as are items such as cots that are needed to convert facilities like hockey rinks to evacuation centers.

However as any emergency is multiple level - local emergency -> municipal emergency, -> provincial emergency -> National emergency I believe there is also an obligation for those parties below the federal government to be responsible instead of only relying up the federal gov't which is a) not well distributed nationally in terms of presence and b) will be slower than lower levels to respond. Emergency Preparedness Canada does have a role to play in helping to coordinate certification consistency and training in the same manner than FEMA in the USA has worked with the USFS/BLM/NP to ensure consistency in certification processes and needs. You can take different courses through each agency but they are all clearly spelled out that you will have FEMA course X or USFS course Y for this process and are recognized as peer equivalent.

I hope the CAF management knows about this supply system.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Speaking of ghosts the Officers' Mess at CFB Cornwallis was supposedly haunted. The story is that the lady in question was jilted and she took her own life.

SAY...maybe there is a fat consultant fee to rid the infrastructure of spirits.....

I actually saw the ghost in the old Work Point Officer‘s Mess. A subaltern, in a early 1900’s scarlet uniform (fully transparent- I could see the wall through him). Got to say, it was not really scary, so much as just…interesting. I asked him to please move along so I could get some sleep and he did.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Happens a lot actually, saves the asbestos and mold clean up required. A case in point is the old Guelph jail, it needs to be abated before it can be demolished, but if it falls down and/or becomes a hazard, it can just be finished off and hauled away. Something about saving millions of dollars makes the particles escaping from it safer I guess.

Same things is happening to some historically designated hangers in Borden. Cant tare them down because of their designation. So leave them up, lock them up and turn off the heat, power and water.

 

[dimsum]

I actually saw the ghost in the old Work Point Officer‘s Mess. A subaltern, in a early 1900’s scarlet uniform (fully transparent- I could see the wall through him). Got to say, it was not really scary, so much as just…interesting. I asked him to please move along so I could get some sleep and he did.

So...a friendly ghost?

 

[Good2Golf]

So...a friendly ghost?

Named ‘Broomaloo’…

 

[ueo]

Same things is happening to some historically designated hangers in Borden. Cant tare them down because of their designation. So leave them up, lock them up and turn off the heat, power and water.

Just let Mother Nature have her way. they'll fall down, just like the remainder of Borden,

 

[North Star]

The ultimate subaltern...got lost on his way to the very final objective.

 

[foresterab]

I hope the CAF management knows about this supply system.

I'd like to think that is part of the assistance briefing/ask that brings the CAF into an incident. We need X personnel for Y task to operate in conditions Z. Conditions Z are being managed currently by the following set up.

Of course this is usually a Provincial EOC or premier talking to Ottawa/Prime Minister so unfortunately the finer operational details often don't come out until after the advance party arrival who notes things like bug spray, coffee, and cots are needed because guys are going to be sleeping in a mosquito infested swamp...for example.

While the CAF can theoretically mobilize the most bodies they're often the 2nd or 3rd federal agency involved though. RCMP are often involved, and almost guaranteed to be if evacuations take place, and Transport Canada are constantly involved due to NOTAM Air space control issues. But have also dealt with National Energy Board (they really don't like heavy equipment crossing pipelines), Transport Canada for railways, DFO (what exactly are you dropping from that water bomber bay), National Parks (treated like another province resource wise for us), and Immigration and Border Services (you want to evacuate Washington state residents through Canada how??? Have you considered the differences in laws?)

So I think from a higher level Ottawa/Federal Gov't perspective there is a growing understanding of what is involved and who should be supplying what. I also believe this part of the messaging recently this fall over Hurricane Fiona response where the Federal government is being viewed as the sole supplier of of assistance to the detriment of other priorities...especially for the CAF.

As Canada's military responds to more disasters like Hurricane Fiona, recruitment struggles to keep up
One of several articles on this subject that is appropriate.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Wellington House is creepy AF when you're doing rounds in there at 3am.

It's condemned now. Empty and full of birds. I think they are hoping it will fall down.

Weird how many times it's been 'uncondemend' to date.

Stayed there briefly about 17 years ago; we were restricted to one section with other parts blocked off and plastic sheeting up. Because that totally stopped the mold and mildew that was everywhere. It was both cold and clammy at the same time, like some kind of partially defrosted fridge, and almost got brained by some plaster falling down from the wall. They then shifted us to another 'uncondemned' building at shearwater, which was at least dry and clean(ish) in the section we stayed in.

I hate that we keep old buildings around for historical reasons, but keep upkeep and maintenance also historical.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Weird how many times it's been 'uncondemend' to date.

Stayed there briefly about 17 years ago; we were restricted to one section with other parts blocked off and plastic sheeting up. Because that totally stopped the mold and mildew that was everywhere. It was both cold and clammy at the same time, like some kind of partially defrosted fridge, and almost got brained by some plaster falling down from the wall. They then shifted us to another 'uncondemned' building at shearwater, which was at least dry and clean(ish) in the section we stayed in.

I hate that we keep old buildings around for historical reasons, but keep upkeep and maintenance also historical.

Ya it has closed and opened a few times. Now it's missing windows birds flying in and no utilities and big signs saying do not enter.

 

[OldSolduer]

The whole "historical" designation of a building is a dog's breakfast. SO you can't tear it down nor can you make substantial changes without it going through a zillion committees.

 

[kev994]

The whole "historical" designation of a building is a dog's breakfast. SO you can't tear it down nor can you make substantial changes without it going through a zillion committees.

Yeah, the ones in Trenton have large chunks of concrete falling off of them. I vaguely recall having to vote on a crazy expensive air conditioner for the OMess because you have to not be able to see it… heritage of this crappy looking building.

 

[Spencer100]

Yeah, the ones in Trenton have large chunks of concrete falling off of them. I vaguely recall having to vote on a crazy expensive air conditioner for the OMess because you have to not be able to see it… heritage of this crappy looking building.

But I think of the old Armouries and think about the emergency talk a page back. The rest of the buildings downtown will be wrecked those old armouries would be just sitting there. I get the love of new buildings. Sure somethings are better but I know the building which will be standing in a emergency and it won't be the new ones.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

But, how much money is being sunk into buildings that aren't really worth the cost? Halifax Armouries comes to mind; designated historical building and all but...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-armoury-restoration-progress-overruns-1.6221485

 

[Furniture]

But, how much money is being sunk into building that aren't really worth the cost? Halifax Armouries comes to mind; designated historical building and all but...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-armoury-restoration-progress-overruns-1.6221485

I think people mistake "old" with "historic", resulting in old buildings with no real historic value being "preserved" at the expense of building modern, efficient, and useful buildings.