Author Topic: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ  (Read 477704 times)

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Offline Thumper81

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1650 on: October 06, 2019, 20:44:10 »
I honestly think that's probably a side benefit.  CAMM is a British missile and many Euro nations are contributors to the ESSM project (Netherlands, Belgium, Germany...).  Canada is by far the largest contributor in ESSM missile performance data from live fires, simulations and modeling (something like 80% of all ESSM launches are Canadian...).  The ESSM is the closest thing to our own Canadian missile out there (ignoring the CRV-7 which is a rocket).  We are also heavily invested in the Block 2 development and are perhaps the ones pushing the hardest to get it done.  The RCN is heavily invested in the ESSM.

Hopefully they upgrade the CWI to Mod 5 to fully support Block 2 for the current frigates.

Offline Underway

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1651 on: October 06, 2019, 22:34:09 »
That's a pretty neat piece of info... I would have guessed that, like most things (Standard, Mk46, Mk54) the US would take the lead.  I read the history of the ESSM... it's cool that in some ways it's "Canada's missile."
It is cool.  I was quite surprised when I found out about the data/testing contribution being so high.  The US is paying for most for the program in budgetary terms.  We contribute as much as possible in other ways.. 

Hopefully they upgrade the CWI to Mod 5 to fully support Block 2 for the current frigates.

Less need for a CWI for the Block 2.  It will have an active homing capability.  So you could potentially get a kill without using the CWI at all.

Offline Thumper81

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1652 on: October 07, 2019, 15:38:52 »
It is cool.  I was quite surprised when I found out about the data/testing contribution being so high.  The US is paying for most for the program in budgetary terms.  We contribute as much as possible in other ways.. 

Less need for a CWI for the Block 2.  It will have an active homing capability.  So you could potentially get a kill without using the CWI at all.

I know that it is active homing, but can do semi-active as well.  The reason it can do both is because of ECM systems.  A lot harder to jam a CWI.  It's an RF hose.  You would need REALLY powerful ECM to jam it. 

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1653 on: October 07, 2019, 19:19:09 »
I know that it is active homing, but can do semi-active as well.  The reason it can do both is because of ECM systems.  A lot harder to jam a CWI.  It's an RF hose.  You would need REALLY powerful ECM to jam it.

This would be an excellent time to remind everyone of OPSEC before anyone else posts.

Offline Thumper81

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1654 on: October 08, 2019, 00:39:16 »
This would be an excellent time to remind everyone of OPSEC before anyone else posts.

Fair point.  Nothing OPSEC in what I said.  What it does is in the acronym.

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1655 on: October 08, 2019, 09:19:00 »
Fair point.  Nothing OPSEC in what I said.  What it does is in the acronym.

I am well aware of that. I am just pointing out to everyone that going much further down this discussion branch is going to be problematic.

Offline Uzlu

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1656 on: October 10, 2019, 13:22:40 »
First delivery of the Canadian Surface Combatants is the mid 2020s.  This appears to be a lot earlier than first delivery of the Hunter-class frigates.
Quote
The program calls for steel to be cut on the first vessel in Osborne in late 2022 with the lead ship, HMAS Flinders, launched in the 2027-2028 timeframe and entering service between 2029 and 2031.
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/a-quiet-hunter-navy-s-future-frigate

Offline Underway

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1657 on: October 10, 2019, 13:51:37 »
Well there are three reasons that might be IMHO.

1) Our shipyard is already built. Australia is building/expanding one.
2) Our project is oddly enough further ahead of theirs.  We had more definition than they did when they accepted a winning bid and are still working out much of the details on capability.  This front end work helps quite a bit when the back end stuff starts.
3) That number is complete BS and means absolutely nothing.  2027 is actually "mid 2020's"...

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1658 on: October 10, 2019, 13:56:14 »
Uzlu:

Quote
First delivery of the Canadian Surface Combatants is the mid 2020s
.

No way. Here is schedule for RCN's A/OPS, and then two to be built by Irving for CCG; will be lucky to get first CSC much before 2030:

Quote
...
Ship 6 delivery: 2024
...
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/procurement/arctic-offshore-patrol-ships.html

Mark
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Offline Uzlu

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1659 on: October 10, 2019, 14:43:35 »
No way. Here is schedule for RCN's A/OPS, and then two to be built by Irving for CCG; will be lucky to get first CSC much before 2030
Well, I think it might be at least theoretically possible for the first surface combatant to be delivered in the mid 2020s if we allow 2027 to be included as a part of the mid 2020s:

Arctic and offshore patrol ship 6 delivery: 2024
Arctic and offshore patrol ship 7 delivery: 2025
Arctic and offshore patrol ship 8 delivery: 2026
Surface combatant 1 delivery: 2027

I, however, do agree with you that delivery of the first surface combatant in the mid 2020s might be optimistic.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1660 on: October 10, 2019, 15:35:33 »
This gov't website still says this, very optimistic I think:

Quote
...
Anticipated Timeline (Fiscal Year)

    Completed Start Options Analysis
    Completed Start Definition
    2021/2022 Start Implementation
    2026/2027 Initial Delivery
...
http://dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca/en/defence-capabilities-blueprint/project-details.asp?id=1710

Mark
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Offline RDBZ

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1661 on: October 11, 2019, 03:55:54 »
Well there are three reasons that might be IMHO.

1) Our shipyard is already built. Australia is building/expanding one.
2) Our project is oddly enough further ahead of theirs.  We had more definition than they did when they accepted a winning bid and are still working out much of the details on capability.  This front end work helps quite a bit when the back end stuff starts.
3) That number is complete BS and means absolutely nothing.  2027 is actually "mid 2020's"...

1 - Correct
2 - Australia actually mandated the combat system and weapons fit out, so the competition was really only for the hull and propulsion system.
3 - It will be interesting to see who actually commissions a ship first.

Offline Spencer100

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1662 on: October 11, 2019, 12:53:55 »
1 - Correct
2 - Australia actually mandated the combat system and weapons fit out, so the competition was really only for the hull and propulsion system.
3 - It will be interesting to see who actually commissions a ship first.

IT'S A RACE!  :)

I'm putting my money on BAE (ASC) any taker for a $20?  or a case of Beer :) (If I'm still alive)

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1663 on: October 11, 2019, 23:10:05 »
I would think the RAN is in more of a hurry than the RCN is allowed to be.
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