Author Topic: Electronic Log Books anyone?  (Read 12965 times)

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Offline Bintheredunthat-Muzzled

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Electronic Log Books anyone?
« on: August 04, 2009, 00:26:20 »
Just wondering if anyone has come across a replacement for the good old log books?

I've have seen some places that have automated logs by having make-shift Excel documents to track all logs.  Pretty redundant though as the Duty O insisted on having a computer log as well as a working log book.  Uhhhhh O-kay.

In any case, I was just curious as I've never seen anything used.

I'm guessing it would be a move in the right direction as most of us are a little more computer savy now and the functions could easily increase productivity.

Bin

aesop081

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 00:47:00 »
though as the Duty O insisted on having a computer log as well as a working log book.  Uhhhhh O-kay.

 

I dont know about you but i cant count the number of times i had to default to my paper logs on the aircraft because the computer crap the bed........



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I'm guessing it would be a move in the right direction as most of us are a little more computer savy now and the functions could easily increase productivity.

Bin

See my comment above...it has nothing to do with being "savvy" in my mind.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 00:49:16 »
What kind of logbook are you talking about?

CDN Aviator:  with regular back ups, an electronic log book is just as good as a paper logbook, imho.  Some countries don't use paper logbooks (aircrew it is) at all anymore to logging purposes (Germany, Denmark, Italy, to name a few)

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2009, 01:04:24 »
In 1997 I received a "Commanders Commendation" for a "log book" that I created.

It was based in MS Access, and although changes could be made to the log entries - those changes were "logged" by the software.  It included ALL entries for a fairly busy Ops Centre - including air ops (Czech HIPs at the time).

"Things" that were approved by the Ops O were broadcast to all users - and intravention of rules were backed up by real time Log entries.  We passed the test of "legal" log through a legal trial - details of which are not worth mentioning - because it was proved in a court of law that it was impossible to change a log entry without having that change noted by the software - thus leading to a plain chain of evidence should something be amiss.

I'm pretty proud of that program.

I'm also aware that it was not adopted as a standard by the CF.

Logs are logs - electronic or paper - their veracity is dependant upon those entering information into them.
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aesop081

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2009, 15:56:28 »
What kind of logbook are you talking about?

Log books used in CPs where all incoming and outgoing transmissions are recorded.


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CDN Aviator:  with regular back ups, an electronic log book is just as good as a paper logbook, imho.  Some countries don't use paper logbooks (aircrew it is) at all anymore to logging purposes (Germany, Denmark, Italy, to name a few)

Max, i was not talking about log books where we record our flying time...we have MMA, works great, i have been using it for quite a few years too........thanks though for reminding me i'm aircrew.

I was refering to mission logs on board the aircraft where all contacts are recorded.\ because if the computer shits the bed, all that information can be re=entered into the system and we just carry-on once the computer is back on. I know this entire tactical crew is a foreign concept to you but.......

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 17:25:43 »
If you know anyone in a Infantry BN Sigs Pl, mainly the Rad Sgt, etc they can probably hook you up. Shortly after I got into BN we started using an electronic log, an in theatre it was the primary log; also had paper logs around as a back up. Was a pretty good program, can probably make something similar in excel/spreadsheet if you can't find the actual program.

I would assume HQ&Sigs would have something similar.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 17:30:12 by -Skeletor- »

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2009, 19:50:59 »
I'm staunchly anti-technology, in a fixed installation, maybe, but for anything in the field or deployed, not a fan of electronic logs.

We used somthing similar to a web message board in wainwright, I thought it was quite neat... there were various operators on various nets, around the base, using the networked computers to add to the log, the log entries were essentially just posts to threads on the message board. Worked out quite well, except when the network crapped out for several days and no one could make log "posts". We were also using an excel spread sheet, which worked out alright, nice thing was anything requiring action could be "highlighted", until it was actioned then unhighlighted. Stuff notable for the incoming DO was highlighted in a different colour.


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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2010, 12:03:08 »
Where I work, in something some of you might be familiar with as a tactical field deployable computer network (NOT DWAN or CSNI) used by the Brigade and Battlegroup officers at their command locations, our electronic log book is basically the chat program/system in place that logs EVERYTHING.... It's all going that way anyway, maybe not at individual dets or even squadron level, but higher up. It's already all electronic.

I have often thought about making an electronic log for the classic job of our trade though... I don't see a Sig Op on a radio shift without a computer now days, either his/her personal laptop or a work system of some kind. Obviously the guy running around as the Coy Signaller isn't going to be worrying about it, but everyone else has/uses one!

Eventually it'll all be that way I'm sure, it's already heading that way.
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2010, 12:26:22 »
[error please delete]
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 12:30:25 by a Sig Op »

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2010, 18:52:51 »
It was based in MS Access, and although changes could be made to the log entries - those changes were "logged" by the software.  We passed the test of "legal" log through a legal trial - details of which are not worth mentioning - because it was proved in a court of law that it was impossible to change a log entry without having that change noted by the software - thus leading to a plain chain of evidence should something be amiss.

I've done something similar in MS Access 2003 for my unit, but the quoted piece is the only real thing I'm missing. Was this "lock" on log entries coded with the VB editor, or an external program?

Offline Jager

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2010, 19:30:31 »
Where I work, in something some of you might be familiar with as a tactical field deployable computer network (NOT DWAN or CSNI) used by the Brigade and Battlegroup officers at their command locations, our electronic log book is basically the chat program/system in place that logs EVERYTHING.... It's all going that way anyway, maybe not at individual dets or even squadron level, but higher up. It's already all electronic.

I have often thought about making an electronic log for the classic job of our trade though... I don't see a Sig Op on a radio shift without a computer now days, either his/her personal laptop or a work system of some kind. Obviously the guy running around as the Coy Signaller isn't going to be worrying about it, but everyone else has/uses one!

Eventually it'll all be that way I'm sure, it's already heading that way.

Right now 3vp's sigs are using a specific room in the chat to log the radio net, it works quite well, and its easy to back up and export the log at the end of the day/whenever
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Offline Nuggs

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2010, 20:58:36 »
Maybe its simply a training-itis but I was under the understanding that all comms logs were mandated to be paper logs?
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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2010, 21:48:24 »
I've never been told that I was required to use a paper log. I've been in training situations where "Training aids given" did not include a personal computer so you default to a paper copy. If you can log on a PC, you can log in a paper log.

Offline Nuggs

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2010, 21:52:11 »
Hmmm.... now you have me curious, I'll have to recheck that reference on Monday.

And that's why I defer to folks with callouses that have more TI than me  ;D
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Offline SigGuy

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 16:54:07 »
Hate to bump an old topic, but...

When I was at CFSCE we used a log book program on an exercise. It was really neat because it had user sign in and had a dropdown menu for different reports and returns so all you had to do was fill in the blanks for each line.

If anyone know what I'm talking about and has a copy I can get my hands on please let me know!

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2011, 17:22:24 »
I think its included in the Battleview suite, but I'm not 100% certain.

Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2011, 11:44:13 »
Hate to bump an old topic, but...

When I was at CFSCE we used a log book program on an exercise. It was really neat because it had user sign in and had a dropdown menu for different reports and returns so all you had to do was fill in the blanks for each line.

If anyone know what I'm talking about and has a copy I can get my hands on please let me know!

Yeah that's called WarLogger... Not sure how you could get ahold of a copy... They still use it at the school to simulate what you'd be using if you were at a CP. Maybe some units do still use it I suppose... Gotta use the tab key a lot that's what I got from it!

Depending on where you work, if you have a LCIS shop around or a TacC2IS section around, you can request the software...
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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2011, 00:50:42 »
Warlogger is available on the NESS website, I'm still trying to figure out how to get it running but it is available for download.

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2011, 00:58:53 »
Warlogger is available on the NESS website, I'm still trying to figure out how to get it running but it is available for download.

I'm not sure what the exact system requirements are but I'm sure if you fired off a RFI to NESS they'd fix you up quickly. That or the folks at DLCSPM2-3.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2011, 08:05:07 »
Just wondering if anyone has come across a replacement for the good old log books?

I've have seen some places that have automated logs by having make-shift Excel documents to track all logs.  Pretty redundant though as the Duty O insisted on having a computer log as well as a working log book.  Uhhhhh O-kay.

In any case, I was just curious as I've never seen anything used.

I'm guessing it would be a move in the right direction as most of us are a little more computer savy now and the functions could easily increase productivity.

Bin

We used electronic logbooks to track all last week Ex Stuffed Markhor. No one made me double-log it into a hardcopy logbook. Oh yay.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2011, 09:23:33 »
Just wondering if anyone has come across a replacement for the good old log books?

I've have seen some places that have automated logs by having make-shift Excel documents to track all logs.  Pretty redundant though as the Duty O insisted on having a computer log as well as a working log book.  Uhhhhh O-kay.
I saw the BG do this in Afghanistan at one point in time.  There was only the electronic log, but it was printed and signed at the end of each DO shift.  The workstation which maintained the log saved constantly and was one of the few connected to a UPS (so it always worked through the frequent power failures).  I  think E-Logs are the way to go, but MS Excel is not the right platform.  As logs are supposed to serve a legal purpose, they should not be easily (and un-noticably) changed at some point during the duty shift.

In 1997 I received a "Commanders Commendation" for a "log book" that I created.

It was based in MS Access, and although changes could be made to the log entries - those changes were "logged" by the software.
There is an MS access log that is used by the Army staff college in Kingston.  It allows multiple users access at one time (so multiple call-signs in the same Ops centre could share a common log), tracks changes, is not too user-friendly and is a little buggy.  Despite the problems, it is a good concept and I am sure someone could make an effective program for operational use.

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Re: Electronic Log Books anyone?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2011, 11:53:21 »
There is an MS access log that is used by the Army staff college in Kingston.  It allows multiple users access at one time (so multiple call-signs in the same Ops centre could share a common log), tracks changes, is not too user-friendly and is a little buggy.  Despite the problems, it is a good concept and I am sure someone could make an effective program for operational use.

That might be the War Logger from the LCSS project. Does it have a lot of spelling mistakes and french/english translation issues?

If I can figure out how to open War Logger v2.2, I think I'm going to try to fix their bugs and resubmit to them. The program has a huge potential, and is pretty secure using password access for multiple users with the ability to set access restrictions.