Author Topic: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)  (Read 127043 times)

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Offline Goibniu

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NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« on: March 10, 2009, 19:56:47 »
Hello All,

I have looked every where I could think of, including the Forces.ca website and some searches on this forum, and I would like some answers from anyone with first hand knowledge. As far as I could find you do your BMQ, then go to civi college, and then do bridge training into your military occupation. My first question is about the actual subsidization itself, would I have to front the money for tuition and tools, and then get reimbursed upon completion of my course ? or would they send the check as soon as you are sworn in? My second question is, does anyone here have first hand experience living on base while attending college full time?  I would also like to hear experiences, good or bad, from anyone that has gone through the NCM SEP entry plan.  I would greatly appreciate any and all comments and advice given.

P.S and for the record I have done a few searches using the search engine on this forum and didn't come up with any close threads that answer my questions and all I could find on the Forces.ca website was a short statement vaguely explaining that through the NCM SEP you can get paid to go to school. Also I will be asking my recruiter directly the next time i see him, I am just looking for a con-sensous of opinions and advice

Offline George Wallace

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 20:25:24 »
It appears to me that you have not visited a CFRC and picked up the information that would have answered your questions.

Let's start here:

The Navy’s subsidized education plan for Non Commissioned members (NCM SEP) can be separated into two programs: the Naval Technical Training Plan (NTTP), and the Community College plan.  Both are considered as entry plans under NCM SEP. 

The NTTP program consists of two sub-programs: the Naval Combat Systems Technical Training Plan (NCSTTP) and the Marine Engineering Technical Training Plan (METTP), all of which are delivered in Newfoundland.  The NTTP was originally developed and funded by the Navy in the 1990s.  It has since grown to be the main source for the naval technical trade application route.  In the more recent past, the Navy’s enrolment numbers have decreased and the Navy has engaged in participating in the CF standard NCM SEP program, which allows students to take their education in an approved local Community College across Canada, in addition to the NTTP.


Now, to set us straight, what program are you going into, and where?
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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 20:36:00 »
George...maybe if you had looked into it, you would have seen that the OP isnt going to be joining the Navy.

Offline Goibniu

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 20:41:28 »
ok I really should have mentioned that I am going into ACS TECH and will be taking the Structural Repair Tech course at Canadore College.  I was told that tuition and tools will be subsidized, but I was just thinking that some money has to be given to the school to hold my position in the program.  I am schedualed for BMQ in late march so i just want to make sure all my bases are covered. But more importantly Im looking for some first hand experinces, I have posted one or two questions about ACS Tech NCM SEP but havent had much of a response

Offline George Wallace

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 20:46:37 »
George...maybe if you had looked into it, you would have seen that the OP isnt going to be joining the Navy.

See!  A little more clarity helps.

Now we have some place to start, rather than Memorial University of Newfoundland.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 21:01:02 »
This is what the Recruiting Center has for information:

Primary Reserve members who component transfer into ACS Tech through the NCM-SEP will have their rank and pay level at entry into the Regular Force determined by DMCA during the transfer process. Cpls will receive basic pay until they are awarded QL5A.

Regular Force NCMs who occupation transfer into ACS Tech through the NCM-SEP will have their rank and other career issues determined in accordance with CFAO 11-12, Occupation Transfer of Non-Commissioned Members Regular Force. Cpls will receive basic pay until they are awarded QL5A.

Note:

1.   The civilian training must be at a Canadian Aviation Maintenance Council (CAMC) accredited facility. Upon completion of the training program, certificate/credits will be reviewed for delta training requirements.
2.   Completion of any transport Canada approved AME program will result in QL3 provisional.  Member will have to complete delta training at CFSATE for removal of provisional.
3.   Normal progression to Cpl will be IAW CFAO 49-4 and shall be respected

Aircraft Structures Technician at Canadore College of Applied Arts and Technology in ON (1 year Crse)

CAREER PROFILE

REQUIREMENT TO FULFIL                                 RANK               PAY LEVEL               TIME IN OCCUPATION
Civilian applicant on entry                                    Pte(R)        Pte IPC 1   
On completion of Basic Military Qualification (BMQ)   Pte(B)        Pte IPC 1                  14 weeks
Successful completion of the subsidized academic year (note 1).   Pte(B)   Pte IPC 2   12 months
Successful completion of QL3 Delta Training                Pte (T)    Pte IPC 2                  15 months
Successful completion of QL4 via Apprentice Logbook.   Pte (T)   Pte IPC 2   3-6 months at field units (18-20 months)
Successful completion of QL5 via Apprentice Logbook.   Pte (T)   Pte IPC 3             20-36 months
Promotion to Cpl and eligibility for Specialist 1 Pay Field   Cpl      Cpl (Spec1)           48 months

So you will start getting paid as soon as you join, and you will live at the college.  You will have your education, books, etc. paid for as per the instructions that the CFRC can provide you.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 21:03:55 by George Wallace »
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Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 21:12:57 »
See!  A little more clarity helps.

Now we have some place to start, rather than Memorial University of Newfoundland.

And what wrong with MUN?  >:(

Our previous CDS came from there.
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Some dusty, crusty, croaking, joking Muddy Old Engineer

Offline George Wallace

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 21:14:51 »
And what wrong with MUN?  >:(

Our previous CDS came from there.

That would have indicated he was going Navy.   :nod:

He's not.

The former CDS now has a website.......for donations to the Ottawa Food Bank.  Got $25 and 25 friends?   ;D
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 21:21:56 by George Wallace »
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Offline Goibniu

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 21:40:01 »
OK thanks for all the great information ...  but i was told by the recruiter i could live on base while at school because the aviation campus is right beside the base, so don't get me wrong i will take my school very serious because it is my full time job but I'm just not sure what living on base while attending college would be like - partying on weekends and over night guests - please I'm not looking for a speech on responsibility or ethics, etc. I am scheduled to be sworn in tomorrow so i will defiantly get everything straightend out

Offline George Wallace

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2009, 12:00:08 »
Just some information (subject to change and update) as to what NCM SEP is:

The Canadian Forces
Non-Commissioned Member – Subsidized Education Plan
(NCM-SEP) for Naval Technicians


If you are interested in a Navy technical trade, but are worried about the cost of tuition, you may be interested in checking out the rewarding option of joining the Canadian Forces (CF) under our Non-Commissioned Member – Subsidized Education Plan (NCM-SEP).

Benefits In this plan, selected candidates complete community college programmes that fulfil all or most of the initial training requirements for an occupation in the CF Regular Force. Applicants must be
accepted without condition in any one of the specific eligible programmes determined by the
Canadian Forces.

• Candidates receive a salary while going to school ($29,808 the first year, $36,456 the second
year; for 3-year programmes, they receive $43,788 the third year)
• Their tuition, books and academic equipment are funded for the duration of the programme
• Fully furnished accomodations are available at reduced cost if they attend the programme at
the Canadian Forces Naval Engineering School Detachment at the Marine Institute of
Memorial University of Newfoundland,
• They have a summer job in between their academic years
• They have a guaranteed job at the end of their programme and an immediate promotion to
Acting Leading Seaman with a salary of $50,112 plus numerous benefits.
The selected occupations that applicants may ent Selected Navy er through the NCM-SEP are, for the Navy:

Occupations
OCCUPATION                                                    TECHNICIAN DIPLOMA

Naval Weapons Technician                                   Electro-Mechanical Engineering
Naval Electronics Technician – Sonar                      Electronics Engineering
Naval Electronics Technician – Communications          Electronics Engineering
Naval Electronics Technician – Radar                        Electronics Engineering
Marine Engineering Mechanic                                   Marine Engineering

Eligibility Requirements

NCM-SEP applicants must meet the minimum academic entry requirements for both the military
occupation and the appropriate subsidized college as published in that institution’s calendar.
To be eligible for the NCM-SEP, students must be Canadian citizens.
Commitment Graduates will serve 2 months of obligatory service for each 1 month of subsidized education commencing on the date of college graduation. Life in the Navy will offer them great opportunities for travel and adventure.
Military or Civilian ? Students can attend a military institution or a CF-approved civilian institution. However, civilian institutions do not offer all programmes leading to the 5 above-mentioned occupations.

• Training for all 5 occupations is offered through the fast-track 2-year programme at the
Canadian Forces Naval Engineering School Detachment Marine Institute of Memorial
University of Newfoundland. In particular, training for the Naval Weapons Technician
occupation is ONLY offered at this establishment. Students attending this military
establishment are required to wear the Canadian Forces uniform.
• A 3-year Marine Engineering programme leading to the Marine Engineering Mechanic
occupation is also offered in Quebec, in French, at the Institut maritime du Québec.
• The Electronics Engineering programme leading to the three Naval Electronics Technician
occupations is offered in several civilian CF-approved community colleges in Quebec, Ontario,
Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia (2 to 3 year programmes). Contact
your local Recruiting Centre for an up-to-date list of CF-approved civilian institutions.


OCCUPATION PROGRAMME NAME           INSTITUTION                        PROVINCE

Naval Wespons Technician

Electro-Mechanical Engineering Marine Institute, Memorial University      Newfoundland & Labrador
Electronics Engineering Marine Institute,      Memorial University      Newfoundland & Labrador
Technologie de l’électronique                     CEGEP                       Ahuntsic Quebec
Technologie de l’électronique                     CEGEP                       Limoilou Quebec
Technologie de l’électronique                     CEGEP                       Sherbrooke Quebec
Technologie de l’électronique                     CEGEP                       Trois-Rivières Quebec
Electronics Engineering Technician        Algonquin College              Ontario
Electronics Engineering Technician        Cambrian College               Ontario
Electronics Engineering Technology       RCC College of Technology       Ontario
Electronics Engineering Technology       Red River College                    Manitoba
Electronics System Engineering Technology     SIAST Kelsey Campus      Saskatchewan
Electronics Engineering Technology       Southern Alberta Institute of Technology      Alberta
Electronics Engineering Technology       Northern Alberta Institute of Technology       Alberta

Naval Electronics Technician (Sonar, Communications or Radar)

Electrical & Computer Engineering Technology    British Columbia Institute of Technology      British-Columbia
Marine Engineering Marine Institute,                 Memorial University Marine Engineering        Newfoundland & Labrador
Mechanic Génie mécanique de marine               Institut maritime du Québec                      Quebec






So?  What have your experiences been with this program?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 00:02:58 by kratz »
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2009, 12:23:14 »
As NCM SEP is not just for Navy occupations, here is some information (subject to change and update) as to what NCM SEP is:

The Canadian Forces
Non-Commissioned Member – Subsidized Education Plan
(NCM-SEP)



The Canadian Forces Subsidized Technical College Education

If you are interested in attending a technical college but are worried about the cost of tuition, we have a plan for you.

Program Description

The Canadian Forces (CF) offers an entry program to provide college education and a salary for certain technician occupations. Selected applicants will receive the full cost of tuition, associated fees, books, and instruments. Starting salary is $31,020 with increases every year (i.e. $37,932 in 2nd year, $45,552 in 3rd year)*.

While studying, students receive the same benefits as other members of the CF including, annual leave, medical and dental benefits. It is also possible for students to join the subsidized education program while in their first or second year of studies. Graduates typically serve two months for each month of academic funding beginning on the date of college graduation.

* Salaries based on April 1, 2008 pay rates.

Selection

This program is competitive and a limited number of applicants will be selected. You may apply for your new career through the nearest Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre or Detachment or on-line at Forces.ca.

In order to be eligible for this plan called the Non-Commissioned Member Subsidized Education Plan
(NCM-SEP), applicants must:

> Enrol in the CF into one of the professions on the NCM-SEP Occupation List; this list is
regularly updated so you will need to check with your local recruiter;

> Provide proof of unconditional acceptance into an approved post-secondary
institution and program applicable to the occupation selected;

> Successfully complete Basic Military Qualification Training either before
starting the full-time academic program or, in the event of conflicting schedules,
after the completion of the first year.


Please see your Recruiter for up-to-date and detailed information on selected programs and institutions,
salaries and benefits, and periods of required service.






What have your experiences been in these programs?"
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 00:03:47 by kratz »
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Offline MrJimi

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2009, 12:39:59 »
    Thanks to George for putting this information together, this thread will be a great tool for those of us in the NCM SEP.

   I personally have recently been sworn in at CFRC Toronto. My trade is NET (T). I begin my studies Monday Oct. 5 at RCC (Radio College of Canada). The program itself is the Electronics Engineering Technology Diploma Program. As I've already mentioned, the Program begins on Oct. 5 2009, and continues until graduation Sept. 16 2011. The duration of studies consists of 8 terms which run continuously. There is however, a two week break between terms and if not on vacation time, one could expect to help out at the CFRC or at a base near their college.

   This thread will be great to ask and answer questions pertaining to the NCM SEP Naval stream. Is anyone out there already a student and would like to share their experiences thus far?

   MrJimi

Offline silverbirdtank

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 11:51:03 »
Thank you george,

This is all great information and I am really sold on a Naval Electronics Technician career but I think I will first take a Naval posting such as Marine Electrician, Sonar Operator or Naval Communicator so that I can ensure I enjoy the atmosphere before I engage in such a program. It will also prove benificial because I will require a physics class or two which I will have time to complete as I work in a navy environment.

                                               

Offline Retired FDO

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 16:06:05 »
You may want to rethink your plan. Remusters (occupation transfers) are NOT a sure thing. Usually you have to wait about 4 years in your trade then you can APPLY for a remuster. I've not heard of anyone doing NCMSEP while they are already serving. We have just readjusted the standards for NET. All you need now is a grade 10 (Ontario) General math and Science. This is a trial for the next little while so get it while you can.

On the flip side you still have to qualify for the trade on CFAT.
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Offline MrJimi

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 20:03:12 »
You may want to rethink your plan. Remusters (occupation transfers) are NOT a sure thing. Usually you have to wait about 4 years in your trade then you can APPLY for a remuster. I've not heard of anyone doing NCMSEP while they are already serving. We have just readjusted the standards for NET. All you need now is a grade 10 (Ontario) General math and Science. This is a trial for the next little while so get it while you can.

On the flip side you still have to qualify for the trade on CFAT.

There is a gentleman in my class who was a bosin (sp) in the reserves and was given the NCM-SEP transfer, however he is the only one out of about 40 students.

My personal experience is going very well at RCC. I am in week 6 of term one and have nothing but positive feelings about my time at school thus far. The first month is hectic with clearing in, tuition and textbook reimbursement, housing, adjusting to school life. At the end of the day, it is a privilege to have school payed for and an automatic career to follow.

What I have noticed however, is a handful of recruits don't seem too keen on consistent attendance or high grades, and it appears to me that those not putting in the 100% needed for success are going to be reminded that the NCM SEP is in fact a privilege and not high school.

Some advice to those interested: if math is not your cup of tea, don't waste your time. 80% of the work is math related, and it gets heavy at times. Be prepared! If you plan on squeaking in with grade 10 math, upgrade, because we start where grade 12 advanced math left off. A lot of guys have struggled and are trying to catch up, and many are, but it's fast paced with 3-5 hours of homework a night.

I'm not trying to scare people, just sharing my experience so far as I'm now half way through the first term.

Mr Jimi

Offline Retired FDO

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 21:35:24 »
You might want to inform your fellow students that the ULO will be checking their attendance and marks. If they are not up to scratch they will find themselves looking for another way to pay for school.

 Your Bos'n friend was a Reserve. He did what we call a "Component Transfer" That is very different from doing an occupation transfer.
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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 19:59:55 »
You might want to inform your fellow students that the ULO will be checking their attendance and marks. If they are not up to scratch they will find themselves looking for another way to pay for school.

 Your Bos'n friend was a Reserve. He did what we call a "Component Transfer" That is very different from doing an occupation transfer.

The ULO was recently at our college, and the message was very clear. The expectations were laid out, and presented sternly. At the pace we move at, even one day of missed school sets you back greatly. The moral of the story for would-be candidates is to realize that attendance and academic success are positively correlated.

Thanks for the clarification on the component transfer FDO.

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2009, 21:32:19 »
My son is heading to St John's next week to start his Marine Engineering course. Would anyone know how far the accomidations are from the MI Campus?

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2009, 21:35:43 »
They are right on campus. Same as most other Universities
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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2009, 17:08:10 »
Unless they've changed since I was there (almost 3 years now...), the main accommodations for the stokers and NE Techs were about a 5-10 minute drive from the MI campus, roughly half way between MI and the base. For those on IR (married), they were living in the singles quarters on base (building 530, I think?).  There were no accommodations near the college when I was there.
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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2009, 20:40:56 »

Has this trial been approved yet? My understanding is that names of potential propects are being collected to determine the interest, then the decision on the trial will be made.  The specific academic entry standards of academic math and one science will be deferred.  But eventually before the NE course begins the applicant will receive the required courses so that the pre-requisites are met.

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2009, 23:50:37 »
As it stands right now they have lowered the education standards for entry into the NET trade. It is now grade 10 general math or higher and grade physics or higher.  However, you must still score high enough on the CFAT. The reason we are tracking the applicants is to see if the lower standards are going to be acceptable for the trade.  Nothing has been deferred.
A Veteran-whether active duty, retired or Reserve- is someone who at one point in their life, wrote a blank cheque made payable to "The Country of Canada" for an amount of "up to and including my life"   Author Unknown

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2009, 12:19:07 »
Well my son has landed on the rock and was sworn in on Wed in HFX. They put the singles in a 2 bedroom apartment in a local  hotel. Easy living for the young one I would think. Since it was all rush rush, my son won't get basic traing til the spring/summer, so he's doing a mini boot camp, if you will, for the next two weeks then flying home for two weeks and then school starts.
Unfortanatley he's out of luck on getting a military flight home, so he's gonna have to buck up and pay his own way back. He seems very happy with all that's happened so far and seems to be embracing the military, guess that comes from growing up in a military town, eh?

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2009, 12:30:18 »
Unfortanatley he's out of luck on getting a military flight home, so he's gonna have to buck up and pay his own way back.

Your son should be eligible for LTA (Leave Travel Assistance) to help defray costs associated with travel between his place of duty and the place of his next-of-kin (once per fiscal year, 1 Apr - 31 Mar).  There are other conditions, but it's worth inquiring about.  Where are you located?

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Re: NCM Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP)
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2009, 17:00:51 »
Hello, I recently graduated from the Electronics Engineering Technician course (at a civilian approved college.)

I never signed up for NCM-SEP but I was interested in becoming a NET.

I have talked to four different recruiters, three of them gave me different answers and one could not answer me.

The recruiter at my college said I would get a $10k signing bonus and promotion when I signed up (as per the job description on forces.ca.) I've talked to this recruiter twice and he said the same thing.

The recruiter at the closest recruiting centre said that those numbers from the college recruiter were wrong and I'd have to start where all the regular NCMs start. I've talked to this recruiter twice, and it was the same thing.

The recruiter that I met with on a ship when it passed through for tours said that I'd be reimbursed my tuition and possibly get a promotion.

So my question is what kind of incentives are there for graduates of one of these programs already? Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction so I won't have to keep getting the run around from these recruiters.