Author Topic: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application  (Read 93450 times)

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Offline Unglunk

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     I was told recently that i will most likely be bypassing the QL3 training for Med Tech, as i have applied semi skilled with 9 years experience; having said that, is there a QL4? Is it the Intermediate Care Paramedic? Is QL5 like an Advanced Care Paramedic? My understanding is that a QL6 trained medic is a PA, formerly 6b medic, but i need some clarification on this stuff and the recruiters seem to just blow off these questions, or honestly just don't know. Even the medic i spoke with seemed unintersted in answering my questions. She did say that she was straight out of PCP school, so maybe this had something to do with it.

     If any of you have applied semi skilled in the past, what rank did you get to begin with. My recruiter said that there is a huge shortage of Medics, especially semi skilled applicants, so my contract will have more room for flexibility. He said i will most likely be starting at a P3, make CPL within a year and SGT by the end of my first contract of 6 years, but there is the possibility of starting at a CPL level. What has been the experience of other semi skilled applicants? I was also told there is currently a $10000 signing bonus, but this changes often.

     I have also been accepted to the ICP in SK for the full time January intake; would it be a better plan to delay my CF start date and take the ICP first? Basically, will it change my contract to begin with for the better? I was told that i would be considered very competitive after i wrapped up my interview, and may be in as soon as Jan 2009, but most likely March.

     Could someone on here give me information on what some of the skills are a PA can do? I'm looking for specifics like intubation, ACLS, Pharmacology etc. All i ever here is that they are like an ACP with a few more skills, but nothing specific. I have called and researched this to death and get no answers, so anything is appreciated.

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2008, 09:43:50 »
Sometimes, information is hard to come by or is undergoing change.  Perhaps the people you talked to weren't "uninterested" in talking to you or answering your questions, maybe they just didn't want to give you false information.

When I was a Medic, I knew of a guy who was Paramedic qualified and was told at the recruiting centre that he might get a QL3 bypass.  He didn't.  Most people I know who started at a higher pay level, did so because they had previous military experience, not trade experience.

You may be able to bypass the PCP but don't quote me on that.  As far as PA training, etc, you will not get that until you are a Sgt and eligible for promotion to WO, so you're looking at quite a few years in before you're even thinking about that kind of training.

As far as the signing bonus, Med Tech has been listed as an understrength trade in CANFORGEN 146/08* but it also states:

Quote
NOTE THAT MERE POSSESSION OF A CERTAIN TRADE OR ACADEMIC QUALIFICATIONS DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT AN APPLICANT MEETS CF REQUIREMENTS. EACH APPLICANT FILE WILL BE REVIEWED TO DETERMINE CURRENCY OF THE PERTINENT SKILLS OR ACADEMIC QUALIFICATIONS AND COMPETENCY.

Allowances are listed here: CBI 205* You must meet all the requirements.

*Note - these links may not be accessible from the Internet.
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Offline Unglunk

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2008, 10:02:26 »
     Solid points.

     I should have given more detail about why he mentioned the QL3 bypass; he said there were only certain provinces that offered courses that they accepted, PEI  P-1, NS PCP, SK PCP, AB EMT-P, BC PCP and i took the SK course which is CMA accredited. He did mention that i would only bypass the PCP end of things and not the other half, but said there were no guarantees until you had your contract in front of you.

     Thats some good info on the SGT to WO promation before your PA because this guy made it sound like you got your SGT promotion and basically got shot in to this course. So no QL4? QL5 is like your ICP then?

     My big worry is that i'm not going to be offerred any aditional medical training for many years, or will prior experience help speed this along? I read that you typically have to have 18 months in as a QL3 before receiving additional training which doesn't have me super fired up. I do realize there is other aspects to the job besides the medical end, especially in the military.

     I was unable to open the info on signing bonuses, but i'll dig some more.

Offline Civvymedic

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2008, 10:45:05 »
I applied last Fall as a Semi-Skilled Med-Tech (Regular Force), was told initially that I would also get acting Cpl upon completion of BMQ, PCP bypass, and some QL3 written off.

I am in ACP in Ontario with 10 years of High volume experience. ER experience (clinical) and teaching at the College level. When the offer came down it was Private with no rank incentive or signing bonus. PCP However was written off.

The Med-Tech trade is way more than just what we do out there as Paramedics in the transport enviornment.

I also applied for Sar-Tech but in the end at this point in my life felt the pay cut was too much. Wish I would have applied when I was younger.

Good luck!

Offline Unglunk

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2008, 11:32:00 »
     Thats very good info.

     Even as an ACP and instructing, you didn't even receive a P3 entrance rank? That worries me. I'm 31 with 3 kids and an ex wife and simply can't live on the starting pay of $30000 a year. A P3 now makes $3096 a month which puts you in that $45000 a year wage, so still a pay cut, but manageable with the other unwritten perks. A starting PCP in SK(full time) will make $50000, so a little behind, but i have heard of things like Post living differential, base housing etc that make up for the gap a little, and in the end you're doing better.

     I was surprisd to hear a SAR TECH only starts at $56000. Thats a seriously elite job requiring very unique and talented individuals. On the flip side of that, it sounds insanely cool!

     The recruiter last year actually asked me if i knew any nurses and said they would be given a competitive wage of $50000 to start. I felt bad, but felt i should point out that $50000 was not remotely competitive, and that some nurses in Ontario made 6 figure incomes; she was floored and couldn't believe this.

     Before anyone says it, i realize it's not about the money; having said that, a person like myself still needs a certain income, or things just don't work. I'll wait and see what i'm offerred and go from there.

Offline MAC-

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2008, 11:48:02 »
From my experience, do not believe what CFRC tells you, they are sometimes out of date with current information. I was a reservist that did a component transfer (Pres - REGS) to MED TECH. I was in the reserves for 3 yrs, and qualified as an enigineer. My contract ended up being 6 yrs, with a pay incentive to cover my PCP school (roughly 7500 for Ontraio), bypass JIBC but have to do Borden QL3 training. Pay rate stayed at P.3 which is more in the regs. Start off as no-hook.

The only reason I got this was because of previous military experience. I was informed that incentives and semi-skilled will only apply for previous mil exp and that ACP/CCP training does not matter. I was also told to forget everything I learnt in school because they will teach me there way.

Hope this helps, don't get your hopes up.

Offline Civvymedic

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 12:03:09 »
Mac's info sounds about right. I wish I could make the move as well but after paying for college twice and living on $40.00 an hour (more than alot of RN's) here as a Paramedic it's a hard switch to make.

I would definately take a pay cut to join the CF but Cpl was about it dollar wise for me I simply cant afford 30k a year.

Funny though the CF had a recruiting booth at a Paramedic conference in Toronto and that was my first contact with them and were looking for experienced Paramedics...but as I found out no rank incentive. No P3 either FYI. Although if you have a Police Sciences Diploma, or some Police experience or Semi-Skilled in some other trades even without prior military experience you are offered a better pay rate/acting rank. So why not the Health Services branch if they are out looking for Medics?

I would think that experience especially in high acuity health care would be as important as tech and policing especially when they need medics, but I dont have the big picture.

SAR-Tech looks awesome but same wage until you reach Cpl. I was offered that as well until I found out that there was no rank incentive.

I believed there would be a rank incentive the whole way through right up until I got my offer for both SAR and Med-Tech. Very dissapointed especially considering that the SAR-Tech medicals were like a F/T job for me this summer and at my own expense......

I hope it works for you.............



Offline Unglunk

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 12:28:01 »
     Wow, i'm really not expecting this offer to be anything that i was told, hope i'm i'm wrong.

     I have an interview on Monday for a really good job for an industrial company that i wasn't taking very seriously; i think i may want to look the option until i hear something better from the military.

     Thanks again guys. If i had my ACP, i would look at Ottawa, sounds like a deadly place to work with all sorts of perks.

Offline Civvymedic

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 12:34:19 »
BC is a great place to work as a medic right now and so is Nova Scotia. You can get in on a great opportunity right now in NB as they just went Provincial and are hiring PCP's.

Ottawa is great! and with a bit of OT your looking at a six figure income potentially............

Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 19:36:45 »
Could someone on here give me information on what some of the skills are a PA can do? I'm looking for specifics like intubation, ACLS, Pharmacology etc. All i ever here is that they are like an ACP with a few more skills, but nothing specific. I have called and researched this to death and get no answers, so anything is appreciated.

I have been in too long to know what the procedures are for what you actually need to do to get in. What I do know is that they will make you do a prior learning assessment. From that the best they will give you is Cpl at pay level 1, and have you do the non PCP portions of the QL 3 course.

As for the rest, there is much more to being a QL 5 medic than the prehospital care stuff.

As for the PA level of training...it will take you approx 10 years (a min of 8 ) to become a Sgt and then you'll generally wait 12-24 months as a Sgt until you are loaded on the PA course. Mind you all this might change in the next 2-5 years once PA graduates (like yours truly) graduate with a BSc from Univ of Nebraska, and subsequently become officers. Then the course loading procedures will change and career progression for 737 med tech will go from Pte to CWO. But this is WAAAAYYYY off in the future.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 19:39:45 by Prairie Dog »
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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 19:42:44 »
Further to last...

there are 2 pilot PA programs. I believe they are our of UoT and Western. I am not sure of the entrance reqs. What I do know they mimic the CFMSS course as that is the academic standard in Canada right now.
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Offline Unglunk

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2008, 19:47:54 »
     Thanks for the response.

     I do realize there is more to the job as a PA, then prehospital care, but just wondered what sort of skills were included in the prehospital care aspect of being a PA; it sounds like you're a great person to ask, so any info on that is gold to me. My understanding was, in a lot of cases, you guys fill in for Docs in a clinic type of environment when the need arises, so your prehospital knowledge base has to be huge. I have an advanced Care Paramedic friend who says he would love to take a PA course if he can make it work, and speaks volumes about your profession.

     One thing that surprised me was the SGT taking 8 years from the rank of CPL; the guy who interviewed me said that assuming i start as a P3 or CPL, i should make SGTjust before the end of my first contract(6 years), which did make sense when i looked at the rate you generally get promoted on the pay scale i found. i'm pretty out of the loop, so just digging here. A lot of variables to consider it seems.

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2008, 20:48:22 »
Further to last...

there are 2 pilot PA programs. I believe they are our of UoT and Western. I am not sure of the entrance reqs. What I do know they mimic the CFMSS course as that is the academic standard in Canada right now.

And McMaster, and one other out west.

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2008, 21:08:03 »
Which is the university in Hamilton? Its that one and TO as far as I know...U of M did not get theirs to go if my info is correct.
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2008, 21:49:52 »
Which is the university in Hamilton? Its that one and TO as far as I know...U of M did not get theirs to go if my info is correct.

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2008, 01:37:24 »
McMaster University - Physician Assistant Education Program
Quote
Program Design
The PA Education Program is a two year course of study delivered over a 24 month period beginning in September.  Year 1 will consist of clinical science courses delivered in the first twelve months.  Year 2 will consist of clinical training delivered in the consecutive 12 month period.

Certification
Graduates will qualify to take the national physician assistant certification examination in order to practice in the province of Ontario.

Admission Procedures
By June 2009, applicants must have completed a minimum of two years of undergraduate work.  A year is the full block of work specified for a year or level of the program as indicated on the university transcript and in the appropriate university calendar. If requested, applicants must provide evidence that this requirement has been met by June 30th of the year of entry. Only degree courses at an accredited university will be considered.  A minimum of 10 full-courses or 20 half courses (two years) are required.  Courses that employ small group, self-directed or inquiry learning are excellent preparation for the PA program.  There is no requirement for applicants to have carried a full course load.  By Feb 25, 2009, applicants are expected to have achieved an overall simple average of at least 3.0 on the OMSAS 4.0 scale for consideration.  Higher grades may be required. OMSAS Scale

University of Manitoba - Physician Assistant Education Program (PAEP)
Quote
Mission Statement

The University of Manitoba Physician Assistant Education Program aims to educate individuals to become outstanding Physician Assistant clinicians, to advance the academic field of the profession, and to foster PA leaders who will both serve their communities as well as advance the physician assistant profession in Manitoba and Canada.

Program Information

A Physician Assistant (PA) is a health care professional, licensed to practice medicine under the supervision of a licensed medical practitioner.

The Physician Assistant Education Program (PAEP) offers a graduate level degree entitled the Master in Physician Assistant Studies (MPAS) that aims to educate, train and produce competent "physician extenders". The program is committed to help meet our provincial and national primary and specialty health care needs in all health care settings.

This will be the first graduate-level program for PA education offered by a university in Canada.

The PAEP course of study is intense and comprehensive, with a strong focus on producing generalist PAs . The graduates will be "polyvalent"/generalist PAs with diverse and comprehensive competencies, who will work in primary or subspecialty care with appropriate MD supervision. This model of PA practitioner will generate the best "fit for practice" PA to work in a variety of health care situations. Graduates will be well equipped to enter a variety of clinical medicine settings.

Program Requirements

Minimum program requirements of the Faculty of Graduate Studies are found in the Graduate Studies Regulations Section of this calendar. The PAEP is a course based masters degree program, and candidates are required to complete all components of the program. The program extends over two years. In the first year, students are exposed to a didactic program of lectures, seminars and small group learning. Anatomy labs and clinical skills form practical exposure at this time.
In the second year of study, PA learners will spend a year of clinical rotations in the major clinical areas of medicine, during which time the majority of instruction and learning will occur in a clinical milieu.

Admission

The PAEP admission requirements follow those described in the Faculty of Graduate Studies, found in the Graduate Studies Regulations Section of the Graduate Calendar. The program is open to individuals with four year degrees in the health sciences, who have a minimum 3.0 GPA and have acquired 2000 hours (1 year) of direct patient contact in a health sciences field. Undergraduate courses in Human Anatomy, Physiology and Biochemistry are recommended for admission to the program; Microbiology and Psychology are asset courses.  However, an acceptable combination of alternate courses and/or educational background will be considered by the Admissions Committee.
 

University of Toronto - Physican Assistant Education Program FAQ
Quote
4. What credential will I receive from this PA Education program?
The Physician Assistant Education Program is a 2 year, second - entry baccalaureate degree program offered in partnership with University of Toronto Faculty of Medicine, Northern Ontario School of Medicine (NOSM) and the Michener Institute for Applied Health Sciences (Michener). The Program is currently under development. It is proposed that graduates of the program will receive a BSc (PA) bachelor’s degree from the University of Toronto. It is expected that the curriculum will be accredited by the Canadian Medical Association.  Graduates will also be prepared and eligible to write the Canadian certification entrance to practice exam offered by PACC.
 
5. When will the Program start?
The Ministry of Health and Long Term Care is encouraging us to start September 2009.
 
6. What is number of positions available in the first class?
Our goal is 20-25 students for the first intake.

7. What is the length of the Education Program?
The PA education Program is a 2 year program in a 24 month continuous curriculum format, with the first 12 months focused on didactic education and the final 12 months focused on clinical education

8. Are there pre-requisites for entry?
There will be requirements for at least 2 years of University credits or equivalent prior to entry (10 full courses or 20 half-courses). 
The details of the exact pre-requisite course have not yet been determined. However, other PA Education Programs (notably in the US) require Basic Sciences (such as Anatomy, physiology, chemistry and microbiology) and some prior healthcare experience (volunteer or employment).
   
 
 



« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 01:47:31 by Blackadder1916 »
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Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2008, 09:06:34 »
As I said before, if the info I heard is correct. The 2 Ontario universities are running the program this year on a interim/pilot basis. Neither have more than a dozen students. But with the Health Ont initiative next year looking for PAs.... you never know what the future will hold.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2008, 09:10:26 »
Info from the QL 5/6a Med tech conference in Halifax this September:  PCP entering the forces are eligible for a signing Bonus of $10000 (My memo is in).
                                                                                                     Spec 1 pay for all PCP Med Techs, Spec 2 for 6A/6B.
                                                                                                     Reimbursement for AEMCA certification.
                                                                                                    

Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2008, 09:22:11 »

                                                                                                     Spec 1 pay for all PCP Med Techs, Spec 2 for 6A/6B.
                                                                                                  
                                                                                                    

Good rumour....but spec pay would be for all med techs. They can not limit it to a civilian equivalence not offered to all soldiers.

It is all still yet awaiting approval.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2008, 09:31:05 »
PCP is now a requirement for Med techs.  I haven't seen anything regarding Spec Pay on paper but I was told January.

Offline Unglunk

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2008, 12:05:44 »
     Wow guys, interesting stuff and a lot to think about.

     Adam, you mentioned spec 1 pay as of Sept; Since the PCP is a requirement now, not overly new, will this starting contract of P3/ CPL most likely stand in your opinion, or do you think i'm hearing a lot of things that aren't goiong to happen. I'm hoping you got some new insight at the conferance you mentioned.

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2008, 12:07:58 »
You were told wrong.

There is a Sgt in the PA class at school who said he was first told med techs were going to get spec pay when he was on his QL 3 course 22 years ago.

Believe it when you see it on the CANFORGEN.

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2008, 12:09:52 »
Unglunk,

Ptes do not get spec pay.

The conference was an update of things trying to get done...not things that are going to happen.
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Offline MedCorps

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2008, 20:13:56 »
I can provide some additional guidance on this issue.

QL3 (Apprentice) Med Tech is a three "part" qualification.

I - The Clinical Care part (anatomy, physiology, basic nursing care, casting and a continued indoctrination into the military life as a basic training list candidate). 

II - The Emergent Care part.  This is the PCP qualification contracted to an accredited civilian college.  In the case of English speakers it is currently the Justice Institute of British Colombia.

III - The Field Operations part.  This teaching you how to work as a member in a field medical unit. 

It is somewhat common to find people with civilian paramedic qualifications to being given a PLA bypass (Prior Learning Assessment) for Phase II.  It is rare to see Phase I and/or III given a PLA bypass.

The QL4 Med Tech course does not exist in the Regular Force. 

The QL5A (Journeyman) Med Tech program is also a three "part" qualification.  Students are returning to the Canadian Forces Medical Services School 18-36 months after completing the QL3 program. 

I - The Clinical Care part (medical patho-physiology [common conditions], clinic medicine, suturing, more nursing skills such as IV medications).

II - The Emergent Care part.  This is currently not being offered but will be in the near'ish future.  There was some thought for quite a long period of time that is was going to be the ACP civilian qualification.  Now that does not look like it will be the case as we are going in a different direction.  I cannot comment much on it as I am not sure what is releasable in the public forum. There is still the thought that this part will be provided by a civilian college provider.   

III - The Field Operations part.  This teaching you how to work as a field medical detachment commander. 

I have never seen someone with only civilian medical qualifications given a PLA for QL5A.  After your QL5A the next step (if you demonstrate leadership potential) is the Primary Leadership Qualification.  This is a non-medical service common qualification and a PLA will not happen for any medical qualification you come to the table with. 

QL6A qualification is currently (but subject to change) a short (2 week) course in medical administration.  It is aimed at the Master Corporal and teaches topics such as medical finance, medical estimates, total quality management, medical regulating, medical supply, etc.

The QL6B qualification is the Physician Assistant course. One must be a Sergeant prior to being nominated for this course. Prairie Dog is right on the mark with respect to time lines for career progression to be eligible for this qualification.

So there you go.  No comments on pay rates.  Entry as a Cpl seems to be more of a myth than a reality (I have seen a few of Privates told they will get it as they were semi-skilled, but are never offered it).  This could be changing however due to the fact Med Tech (737) is now in the red for numbers.  I have never seen a civilian ACP paramedic (or PCP) paramedic without prior military service given a PLA bypass for QL3 or QL5A. 

I hope that is of some help.  It is important to remember that the Medical Technician is not a civilian paramedic.  They are two different beasts with only a somewhat limited overlap in job or skill set. 

Cheers,

MC

Offline Unglunk

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Re: Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2008, 21:40:17 »
     That does clear up a few things for me, much appreciated.

     Just out of pure curiosity, what would happen if someone took the civilian Physicians assisstant course and then applied to the CF? Has this ever occured? I suspect not, since it's a fairly new program outside of the military, but thought i would ask.