Author Topic: Paid Education [Merged]  (Read 106529 times)

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Offline sidemount

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #200 on: July 04, 2018, 20:38:53 »
Ive got a few folks set up with ILPs

Its a pretty simple online form, the only part that requires a bit of thought is the justification write up portion. Word it so the education benefits the CAF.

After that tuition and book fees are paid out once the course is passed.

Queen's University has a large selection of online courses that may be worth looking at.

Again like the others have said, the BPSO will have some more answers.

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #201 on: July 04, 2018, 20:44:45 »
Thanks for the help all.

So buddy will have to sell the university course to the army to get the course approved. He pays for the course upfront and the army will give him the money back if he passes?

9 out of 13 courses for the ncm one get wrote off. Would university guys be able to get some wrote off too for military service? Maybe depending on what course?  Non-plq qualified Cpl.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #202 on: July 04, 2018, 20:53:30 »
Thanks for the help all.

So buddy will have to sell the university course to the army to get the course approved. He pays for the course upfront and the army will give him the money back if he passes?

9 out of 13 courses for the ncm one get wrote off. Would university guys be able to get some wrote off too for military service? Maybe depending on what course?  Non-plq qualified Cpl.

There is an online tool that maps mil and civ quals - "Your QL5A basketweaving gets you 7 credits to a philosophy degree at WossaMotta U" or "Your diploma in losing paperwork gets you your junior officer staff qualification written off".

Can't find it right now, but the governing DAOD (in need of a refresh) is at: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5031-1.page


EDIT to add: From the CAF Education & Training page: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-equivalencies/index.page
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Offline sidemount

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #203 on: July 04, 2018, 20:57:04 »


Thanks for the help all.

So buddy will have to sell the university course to the army to get the course approved. He pays for the course upfront and the army will give him the money back if he passes?

9 out of 13 courses for the ncm one get wrote off. Would university guys be able to get some wrote off too for military service? Maybe depending on what course?  Non-plq qualified Cpl.

Yup exactly. Once passed, you bring in proof and you are paid out in a regular claim.

Easiest way to word it is advancing education to make them better in their current trade and for the eventual advancement to "insert officer trade here". Just make it sound good. The ilp page also has some example substantiation writeups that will help.

As for writing off courses, thats pretty university dependent. I think university of Manitoba does a few but not sure what they are. I had a couple from RMC due to the POET course, and nothing from Queen's U.
Im not sure about the NCM PD courses as I jumped to the dark side before I had a chance to do them. As far as I know they are just college level.

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Online MJP

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Re: Will the CAF reimburse online university courses
« Reply #204 on: July 04, 2018, 21:26:49 »
Do we have anything in the CAF that would allow for a soldier to have the CAF pay for his part time university courses online?

I know under the NCM-PD the courses are $400 and the CAF will reimburse after completion of the certificate but how does it work for university? I think the courses are around $800 each.

I don't believe they're interested in being an officer (at least not yet), it would be courses to finish a BA they started a couple years ago or maybe start a new one in a different field.

Absolutely DAOD 5031-5, Canadian Forces Continuing Education Program (CFCEP) is the go to reference.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5031-5.page

What is reimbursable is under  ADM HR Mil Instruction 17/04 - Education Reimbursement for the Regular Force (no web link)

Key parts:

Aim

3.3 The aim of the CFCEP is to facilitate access to post-secondary educational services.

Negotiated Agreements

4.4 The CDA negotiates agreements at the university and college level with English and French academic institutions. The purpose of these agreements is:

to provide easy access to post-secondary education for CAF members, and
to establish, in some cases, a CAF education coordinator at the institution to facilitate access.

Services Offered
5.1 The following services are an integral part of the CFCEP:

national coordination of CFCEP;
advertising the CFCEP services;
academic counselling services;
reduced residency requirements;
registration and transcript services;
prior learning assessment and recognition, including:
evaluation of military training and skills;
recognition of other pertinent post-secondary learning towards a diploma or degree; and
advanced standing in recognition of military training, skills and experience where appropriate;
opportunities to write exams off campus; and
tailored administrative or support services to simplify and accelerate processes and provide special consideration in order that a CAF member not be penalized for failing to write an examination or complete a course as a result of a deployment or other military exigency or circumstance.
Note - More information on the services can be found on the CDA website or obtained from the B/WPSO or B/WEO.

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Online MJP

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #205 on: July 06, 2018, 17:28:02 »
Not at work so can't check DWAN or call the BPSO's office but do you have to wait to finish a crse to be reimbursed for initial programme enrollment/application and other such fees?  Just started my masters but the entry into the programme isn't cheap and the less I have have to pay interest on the amounts the better.
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Offline Mediman14

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #206 on: July 06, 2018, 17:39:40 »
Not at work so can't check DWAN or call the BPSO's office but do you have to wait to finish a crse to be reimbursed for initial programme enrollment/application and other such fees?  Just started my masters but the entry into the programme isn't cheap and the less I have have to pay interest on the amounts the better.
Yes, you do have to complete the course with a passing grade in order to be reimbursed. A good rule of thumb is to ask for more than what everything costs. You will only get back what you paid, but there is always some unexpected cost such as a increase cost from a proctor/ invigilator!

Online MJP

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #207 on: July 06, 2018, 18:52:33 »
Yes, you do have to complete the course with a passing grade in order to be reimbursed. A good rule of thumb is to ask for more than what everything costs. You will only get back what you paid, but there is always some unexpected cost such as a increase cost from a proctor/ invigilator!

Rog, tracking that.  I don't think I was clear in my question, I am only referring to costs not directly related to courses.  In my case entry into the program before any course costs is just over $2k.   I won't be done my first crse until end-October , so if I can get those costs covered before that would be ideal.
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Offline Zarack

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #208 on: July 10, 2018, 12:16:38 »
I've inquired before and ILPs do not provide advance on courses.

Reimbursement upon successfully passing the course.

Online MJP

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #209 on: July 10, 2018, 12:36:24 »
I've inquired before and ILPs do not provide advance on courses.

Reimbursement upon successfully passing the course.

Yes, I know that.

I am asking about all the fees to get into a programme!  They will be paying them whether I take one crse or finish the programme so it shouldn't matter when they pay it. 
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Offline Mediman14

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #210 on: July 10, 2018, 20:08:36 »
Rog, tracking that.  I don't think I was clear in my question, I am only referring to costs not directly related to courses.  In my case entry into the program before any course costs is just over $2k.   I won't be done my first crse until end-October , so if I can get those costs covered before that would be ideal.

I think I understand now! ILP will only cover certain things relevant to the course / program. Some of the things they will not cover is
 Parking, Buying a PC, Transportation. I could give you more detailed list tomorrow, as I am not at work currently.

They will cover most fee's associated such as, admission fee's, etc. Those are usually fee's that is mandatory for students to pay no matter what program you enter.


What kind of Fee's are you looking at?

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #211 on: July 10, 2018, 20:26:20 »
I think I understand now! ILP will only cover certain things relevant to the course / program. Some of the things they will not cover is
 Parking, Buying a PC, Transportation. I could give you more detailed list tomorrow, as I am not at work currently.

They will cover most fee's associated such as, admission fee's, etc. Those are usually fee's that is mandatory for students to pay no matter what program you enter.


What kind of Fee's are you looking at?

Application
Admission
Assessment fee

I know that those are covered as I had an ILP years ago that had similar fees.  However this programme is pretty heavy on the initial fees for a few reasons.  My question is will they cover those costs before I complete a single crse?  My gut says no, but I am on leave and won't be able to check with the BPSO's office for a few weeks so just checking in with the Army.ca collective.
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Offline Mediman14

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #212 on: July 11, 2018, 17:15:41 »
No, they will not pay fir it up front. Like mention before, when submitting your ILP you should include those costs. Once you successfully complete the course you would be reimbursed. However, I am not sure about "an assessment fee". Hope that helps

Offline Mediman14

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #213 on: July 11, 2018, 17:19:24 »
Sorry, my daughter hit the wrong on me! The application, admission fee is covered once successfully completed

Offline hattrick72

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #214 on: July 18, 2018, 14:18:04 »
Any ideas why ILPs are not being funded?

Funding for new ILPs is currently unavailable. Ill & Injured and CEOTP ILPs will still be approved. Please continue to submit your ILP, it will be placed in the queue and once new funding becomes available, we will advise.

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #215 on: July 18, 2018, 14:20:07 »
Any ideas why ILPs are not being funded?

Funding for new ILPs is currently unavailable. Ill & Injured and CEOTP ILPs will still be approved. Please continue to submit your ILP, it will be placed in the queue and once new funding becomes available, we will advise.

Cause they ran out of funding for this FY?  Sorry, editing cause my answer comes off as flippant when I just meant to be sarcastic.

One of the problems with the ILP model is they have a finite amount of money and once it is eaten by previously approved and new ILPs they have no mechanism to approve additional ILPs until they secure additional funding.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 14:24:19 by MJP »
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Offline hattrick72

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #216 on: July 18, 2018, 16:09:55 »
That is less worrisome than I thought.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #217 on: July 19, 2018, 23:55:10 »
Cause they ran out of funding for this FY?  Sorry, editing cause my answer comes off as flippant when I just meant to be sarcastic.

One of the problems with the ILP model is they have a finite amount of money and once it is eaten by previously approved and new ILPs they have no mechanism to approve additional ILPs until they secure additional funding.

Seems pretty early in the fiscal year to run out of money, doesn't it? And not that I paid a great deal of attention over the years but I can't remember this happening in recent memory.

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #218 on: July 20, 2018, 00:15:48 »
Seems pretty early in the fiscal year to run out of money, doesn't it? And not that I paid a great deal of attention over the years but I can't remember this happening in recent memory.
''Likely a result of a concerted push to have more options for NCMs for education upgrading and general awareness of the programs available.  It wasn't long ago that barely anyone I knew had an ILP, now everyone has one! 
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Offline Mediman14

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #219 on: July 20, 2018, 19:45:44 »
This might be an obvious answer to this but, ref ILP, Ill and injured, I assume that is referring to JPSU members?

Offline hattrick72

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #220 on: July 20, 2018, 21:19:41 »
I felt it was early in the fiscal year as well and then I thought to myself I wonder how we plan on paying the new education benefits available to pers who leave the military after 6 years.... Hopefully it sorts itself out in the next two months

Offline kratz

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #221 on: July 20, 2018, 21:35:28 »
hattrick72,

There is an ongoing shift WRT higher education. The changes will be longer than 6 months, more like multi-year.

The changes are affecting everyone, but budgets are not funded for the demand from those who qualify.
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #222 on: July 25, 2018, 00:18:33 »
This might be an obvious answer to this but, ref ILP, Ill and injured, I assume that is referring to JPSU members?

I spoke to the BPSO about that the other day and it isn't just for JPSU members but anyone who is likely to be medically released. A good example would be someone on a three year retention. The main differences are that it isn't as restrictive as the normal ERP but a MO has to sign off that you can do the training within your MELs.

Offline Redhead8989

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #223 on: August 30, 2018, 06:42:25 »
Another thing many people do not know is that (in my unit and probably others) you are able to request a laptop from the IT guys (WTISS (Air Force)) and keep it for the duration of the program you are taking. Many say 10 - 30 days but I just told them what I was using it for and have had it for over a year now. I've shared this information and two other people have received them as well. Saves some of you from going out and buying a new laptop or computer for online courses.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #224 on: August 30, 2018, 10:25:42 »
Question for the brain trust re education reimbursment.

CBI 210.80 states:
Quote
210.80 - Tuition Fees, Books and Instruments - Officers and Non-Commissioned Members of the Regular Force at Canadian Military Colleges, Universities, Academic Institutes or Courses not within the Canadian Forces

210.80(1) (Application) This instruction applies to an officer or non-commissioned member of the Regular Force who is in receipt of pay and allowances, or who is in receipt of an allowance under CBI 205.461 (Maternity and Parental Allowances), and who is enrolled in an authorized full-time or part-time course subsidized by the Canadian Forces, but it does not apply to a member who is authorized to accept a scholarship.

210.80(2) (Reimbursement) An officer or non-commissioned member to whom this instruction applies shall have paid on their behalf or have reimbursed at public expense: (emphasis mine)
a.while attending a Canadian Military College, all fees and expenses prescribed in the Queen's Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Military Colleges (Volume IV of the QR&O, Appendix 6.1); or
b.while attending a university, an institute or a course; i.the cost of tuition, student union or council fees, registration fees, library fees and student health fees; and
ii.subject to the approval of the Chief of the Defence Staff, other similar fees levied by a university or other academic institution.


210.80(3) (Other costs incurred) Subject to the approval of the Chief of the Defence Staff, an officer or non-commissioned member to whom subparagraph (2)(b) applies may be reimbursed such portion as may be determined by the approving authority of the member's actual and reasonable expenses necessarily incurred for:
a.the purchase of books and instruments; and
b.if undertaking post graduate training, pre-enrolment application fees, required entrance examination fees and the preparation of a thesis.

210.80(4) (Subsequent subsidization) When, at a date subsequent to the commencement of an academic year, the full-time subsidized plan first applies to an officer or non-commissioned member who is attending a university, the member is entitled to the payments described in subparagraph (2)(b) and paragraph (3) for that academic year.

If I read this right, approval of an ILP is merely an administrative process. As long as the paper work is correct, and you check all the correct boxes, it will be approved.