Author Topic: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!  (Read 97071 times)

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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #275 on: June 13, 2018, 13:48:15 »
 

Rucks and sleeping aren't a controlled item.  They are accountable, but they aren't controlled.  And no not every member of the CA or RCAF needs a Field kit.  Lots of positions outside of line units and including some line units have no requirement for pers to have field kit.  Its called Field Kit SOI because it meant to equip those members who are expected to go to the field on a frequent enough basis to warrant an issue.  Your uniform or service (RCAF/RCN/CA ect) does not dictate your SOIs, your UIC and billet number do.  I can tell you for a fact that there are lots of RCN folks walking around with field kit that was issue for courses or tasking's that haven't been returned yet, this is what I mean as an example of kit hoarding.

The problem with this is, they have no requirement..... until they have a requirement.  I've been pulled in to many taskings via CFTPO where all of sudden, I required kit that had sat in my basement for a few years.  A great example of this was when I deployed to the Arctic twice on short notice.  Thank god I had my initial issue Arctic Kit otherwise I would have been SOL because supply in Kingston had almost nothing.

I'm a big believer in soldier first, office/cubicle dweller second.  How do you inculcate that culture when you don't even provide the necessary equipment for your personnel to live properly in an austere condition that they may have to go to from time to time?  How do you promote a culture of high readiness when you don't even have equipment available for the force you do have? 

Quote
Procuring the right uniforms or boots isn't really what we are talking about here.  As for having more stock, ok.  No argument there.

In a perfect world, sure.

It's actually exactly what we are talking about.  When I say 'controlled' I'm obviously not talking about 'controlled goods' and I thought that was apparent.  What I am talking about is what every single soldier should be issued the minute they sign up for service.  A serviceable rucksack is a fundamental piece of military equipment.  In fact, I would say as a logisitican it should be of critical importance to you.  It's the most basic form of logistical equipment we have and it has proven decisive in many great military victories.

Dien Bien Phu:

64,000 Vietnamese Soldiers equipped with bags, boots, their hands and feet marched through the jungle carrying howitzers and guns on their shoulders decisively defeated the French Army who were equipped with tanks, 400+ aircraft, heavy howitzers, etc. 

The Chinese Intervention during the Korean War:

200,000 Chinese Soldiers marched 460km in 19 days carrying only what they could move on foot and with pack mules.  One particular Chinese Division averaged 29km per day during that advance, on foot.  It's probably one of the greatest military logistical feet's of all time but we don't study it in the West unfortunately.





So yes, every person in the Army needs a rucksack and full fighting order, every single person also needs a half decent pair of boots and a proper uniform.  We should also maintain an Op Stock to rapidly kit out our Units who would be able to rapidly mobilize to Battalion strength should the Balloon go up. 

I'm not talking about expensive pieces of equipment, I'm talking about bags that cost a few hundred dollars. Considering we handed back $2.3 billion dollars this year, seems like it isn't necessarily a money problem.


Offline Colin P

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #276 on: June 13, 2018, 14:51:31 »
Plus a lot of that kit will last a long time if properly stored. I kept our stock of 51 pattern webbing, so when the SYEP came along we had something to issue them, of course once that program ended I was ordered to get rid of it, despite it saving our butt and lots' of money. We are terrible at getting rid of serviceable kit. We could certainly learn lessons from the Soviets about kit retention and storage.

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #277 on: June 13, 2018, 15:53:37 »
The problem with this is, they have no requirement..... until they have a requirement.  I've been pulled in to many taskings via CFTPO where all of sudden, I required kit that had sat in my basement for a few years.  A great example of this was when I deployed to the Arctic twice on short notice.  Thank god I had my initial issue Arctic Kit otherwise I would have been SOL because supply in Kingston had almost nothing.

I'm a big believer in soldier first, office/cubicle dweller second.  How do you inculcate that culture when you don't even provide the necessary equipment for your personnel to live properly in an austere condition that they may have to go to from time to time?  How do you promote a culture of high readiness when you don't even have equipment available for the force you do have? 

It's actually exactly what we are talking about.  When I say 'controlled' I'm obviously not talking about 'controlled goods' and I thought that was apparent.  What I am talking about is what every single soldier should be issued the minute they sign up for service.  A serviceable rucksack is a fundamental piece of military equipment.  In fact, I would say as a logisitican it should be of critical importance to you.  It's the most basic form of logistical equipment we have and it has proven decisive in many great military victories.

Dien Bien Phu:

64,000 Vietnamese Soldiers equipped with bags, boots, their hands and feet marched through the jungle carrying howitzers and guns on their shoulders decisively defeated the French Army who were equipped with tanks, 400+ aircraft, heavy howitzers, etc. 

The Chinese Intervention during the Korean War:

200,000 Chinese Soldiers marched 460km in 19 days carrying only what they could move on foot and with pack mules.  One particular Chinese Division averaged 29km per day during that advance, on foot.  It's probably one of the greatest military logistical feet's of all time but we don't study it in the West unfortunately.





So yes, every person in the Army needs a rucksack and full fighting order, every single person also needs a half decent pair of boots and a proper uniform.  We should also maintain an Op Stock to rapidly kit out our Units who would be able to rapidly mobilize to Battalion strength should the Balloon go up. 

I'm not talking about expensive pieces of equipment, I'm talking about bags that cost a few hundred dollars. Considering we handed back $2.3 billion dollars this year, seems like it isn't necessarily a money problem.

1)  If you need kit that you aren't normally entitled too on short notice, say like your arctic deployments, then I agree Clothing stores should have available stock.  Why don't we ?  What are our return process like ?  What happens when a member looses one or "looses one"  ?  Why does the Army Sup Tech on HMCS ___________ require field kit ?  Could that kit not be better used at your local clothing stores ?

2)  Soldier first is a fallacy outside the Army.  You can argue with me until you're blue in the face about this but I am not budging.  Trust me, I have operational time in both the RCN and CA and only one of those required any sort of soldier skills for me to complete my job.  And then when I did need those skills the CA spent countless months having me hold down a.... I mean training me.

3)  I agree with you.  We should have the kit on the shelf to kit the sailors/soldier/air folks out.  Question, why wasn't DRMIS portal utilized; and a report run looking for all the people who do not fall under the Field Kit SOI yet have it issued ?  This should have been the first step.  Disseminate it through the CoCs and hold leadership responsible for the kit's return, then hold the members financially responsible for kit the signed for that isn't there. 

4)  Field kit has a limited critical importance too me.  I am employed at a Navy unit, and probably will be for the rest of my career.  My Army days are very likely over, sadly.  Succession planning and all that jazz,  you know.   

If you don't have an entitlement to the kit; or you did at one time and that has changed then you must return that kit.

Go to you local Army Navy store and look at all the serviceable kit that is on those shelves ?  Why is that ?  Go on Kijiji or Ebay have another look. Why is that serviceable kit there ?  My trade has a fault to play in this as well.  Why are we not enforcing policy that is very clearly laid out ?  Why are we clearing people out of units without having them return kit ?  Why are we sending serviceable kit to the scrap bin ?  That's a whole other discussion about my trade and what has happened too it in the last 20 or so years.

Again I don't really disagree with you, I simply think the first step should be find out who has this stuff with no entitlement too it and make those returns happen first. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 19:58:57 by Halifax Tar »
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #278 on: June 14, 2018, 14:23:51 »
1)  If you need kit that you aren't normally entitled too on short notice, say like your arctic deployments, then I agree Clothing stores should have available stock.  Why don't we ?  What are our return process like ?  What happens when a member looses one or "looses one"  ?  Why does the Army Sup Tech on HMCS ___________ require field kit ?  Could that kit not be better used at your local clothing stores ?

2) Soldier first is a fallacy outside the Army.  You can argue with me until you're blue in the face about this but I am not budging.  Trust me, I have operational time in both the RCN and CA and only one of those required any sort of soldier skills for me to complete my job.  And then when I did need those skills the CA spent countless months having me hold down a.... I mean training me.

You and I are in violent agreement on the bit in yellow.  Part of the problem this Military has is the fallacy of the joint force which I believe complicates decision-making.  What's good for the Navy isn't necessarily good for the Army or Air Force and vice-versa.

I actually looked at the recall message and laughed when I saw FDU(P) and FDU(A) as the only two Navy units authorized to keep the Rucksack.  I thought to myself, why the heck are they even using that rucksack and is it even suitable for what they do?     

Quote
3)  I agree with you.  We should have the kit on the shelf to kit the sailors/soldier/air folks out.  Question, why wasn't DRMIS portal utilized; and a report run looking for all the people who do not fall under the Field Kit SOI yet have it issued ?  This should have been the first step.  Disseminate it through the CoCs and hold leadership responsible for the kit's return, then hold the members financially responsible for kit the signed for that isn't there. 

4)  Field kit has a limited critical importance too me.  I am employed at a Navy unit, and probably will be for the rest of my career.  My Army days are very likely over, sadly.  Succession planning and all that jazz,  you know.   

If you don't have an entitlement to the kit; or you did at one time and that has changed then you must return that kit.

This comes to my next point.  If we were a proper Army or Military, we would have a climate controlled warehouse in Longue-Pointe with 200,000 of these bags and other assorted individual kit just sitting there waiting to be issued.  We aren't talking about a tank or a plane here, although a proper Military has hundreds of those also just sitting in storage.  What kind of a person orders a hiking bag and expects it to last for 30 years without ever needing to be replaced?  Oh and lets not even order enough to give to the people we do have. 

Good thing the Army doesn't use the Load Bearing March as it's Battle Fitness Standard anymore otherwise we would be pooched, although you are still supposed to complete one if you have to deploy as part of your IBTS, I'm sure we will just sign a waiver though :)

Quote
Go to you local Army Navy store and look at all the serviceable kit that is on those shelves ?  Why is that ?  Go on Kijiji or Ebay have another look. Why is that serviceable kit there ?  My trade has a fault to play in this as well.  Why are we not enforcing policy that is very clearly laid out ?  Why are we clearing people out of units without having them return kit ?  Why are we sending serviceable kit to the scrap bin ?  That's a whole other discussion about my trade and what has happened too it in the last 20 or so years.

Again I don't really disagree with you, I simply think the first step should be find out who has this stuff with no entitlement too it and make those returns happen first.

I don't blame your trade or any of the people in uniform at all.  You are just the ones responsible for having to administer and manage a fundamentally flawed system.  In fact, I think our Logistics personnel at the Tactical Level do Yeoman's Work with the soup sandwich they've been given.

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #279 on: June 15, 2018, 05:59:44 »
You and I are in violent agreement on the bit in yellow.  Part of the problem this Military has is the fallacy of the joint force which I believe complicates decision-making.  What's good for the Navy isn't necessarily good for the Army or Air Force and vice-versa.

I actually looked at the recall message and laughed when I saw FDU(P) and FDU(A) as the only two Navy units authorized to keep the Rucksack.  I thought to myself, why the heck are they even using that rucksack and is it even suitable for what they do?

I think Joint is ok, we all need to work together, but IMHO this is a direct ramification of the unification and integration that took place in the 60s and early 70s.  We tried to force 3 very different Supply services to all work in the same method, while giving small nuances, and then never giving our people the opportunity to actually learn that field to a higher degree because "Supply has to have experience in more than one environment".   

Full discretion, I am the Snr Storesman (RQ for you Army types) at FDU(A).   Ya about those rucks.  They are entitled to them off of the EOD Operator SOI, and that is a very recent development that that SOI was amended to include all CDs posted to a FDU.  It spawned out of a Snr NCM CD having a temper tantrum over not being entitled to the new ruck sack, so he got his whole trade added to the EOD Operator SOI which still only has the old ruck.  He did that in about 5 mins via an email to another Snr NCM CD who runs that SOI, and *poof* entitlement exists. 

Anyways, enough on that.  I have to stop before I get myself in trouble lol.

This comes to my next point.  If we were a proper Army or Military, we would have a climate controlled warehouse in Longue-Pointe with 200,000 of these bags and other assorted individual kit just sitting there waiting to be issued.  We aren't talking about a tank or a plane here, although a proper Military has hundreds of those also just sitting in storage.  What kind of a person orders a hiking bag and expects it to last for 30 years without ever needing to be replaced?  Oh and lets not even order enough to give to the people we do have. 

Good thing the Army doesn't use the Load Bearing March as it's Battle Fitness Standard anymore otherwise we would be pooched, although you are still supposed to complete one if you have to deploy as part of your IBTS, I'm sure we will just sign a waiver though :)

No disagreement from me. :)

I don't blame your trade or any of the people in uniform at all.  You are just the ones responsible for having to administer and manage a fundamentally flawed system.  In fact, I think our Logistics personnel at the Tactical Level do Yeoman's Work with the soup sandwich they've been given.

I do blame my trade partially. I have been that LS/Cpl at the counter at clothing, getting berated by a Sgt because he doesn't want to return his kit.  Then he disappears into my Sgts office and *poof* he can keep his kit or perhaps no need for an MLR.  "LS Make it happen".  I can't tell you how many times I have seen stuff like that happen. 

I recently took some MLRs to the BOR that my CO had ordered to have funds recovered.  Not a clerk in that OR had any idea how to do this because it hadn't been done in forever.  We have not been holding people accountable for their kit for a very long time. 

In Mar of this year I had an LCMM and Supply Manager try to shanghai my Cpl and have him find out all of their outstand requisitions.  Yup the LCMM and SM couldn't even find out what they had outstanding to action.

We have some, not all, extremely weak leadership in Supply and Log as a whole.  I have my opinions as to why and they aren't nice.  But that's for the Sgts/WOs mess while having a smoke and a cold one.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 07:23:51 by Halifax Tar »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #280 on: June 15, 2018, 10:24:53 »
I think Joint is ok, we all need to work together, but IMHO this is a direct ramification of the unification and integration that took place in the 60s and early 70s.  We tried to force 3 very different Supply services to all work in the same method, while giving small nuances, and then never giving our people the opportunity to actually learn that field to a higher degree because "Supply has to have experience in more than one environment".   

Full discretion, I am the Snr Storesman (RQ for you Army types) at FDU(A).   Ya about those rucks.  They are entitled to them off of the EOD Operator SOI, and that is a very recent development that that SOI was amended to include all CDs posted to a FDU.  It spawned out of a Snr NCM CD having a temper tantrum over not being entitled to the new ruck sack, so he got his whole trade added to the EOD Operator SOI which still only has the old ruck.  He did that in about 5 mins via an email to another Snr NCM CD who runs that SOI, and *poof* entitlement exists. 

Anyways, enough on that.  I have to stop before I get myself in trouble lol.

No disagreement from me. :)

I do blame my trade partially. I have been that LS/Cpl at the counter at clothing, getting berated by a Sgt because he doesn't want to return his kit.  Then he disappears into my Sgts office and *poof* he can keep his kit or perhaps no need for an MLR.  "LS Make it happen".  I can't tell you how many times I have seen stuff like that happen. 

I recently took some MLRs to the BOR that my CO had ordered to have funds recovered.  Not a clerk in that OR had any idea how to do this because it hadn't been done in forever.  We have not been holding people accountable for their kit for a very long time. 

In Mar of this year I had an LCMM and Supply Manager try to shanghai my Cpl and have him find out all of their outstand requisitions.  Yup the LCMM and SM couldn't even find out what they had outstanding to action.

We have some, not all, extremely weak leadership in Supply and Log as a whole.  I have my opinions as to why and they aren't nice.  But that's for the Sgts/WOs mess while having a smoke and a cold one.

Let's get back on track....

Gun tape. I (heart) Gun Tape.

Anyone with me?
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #281 on: June 15, 2018, 11:04:17 »
Let's get back on track....

Gun tape. I (heart) Gun Tape.

Anyone with me?

I just used some to tape up a training file folder that fell apart due to it containing the largest number of medical chits I've ever seen any candidate in the CAF have.  File Folder has been preserved!

Gun tape for then win!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 11:19:46 by Humphrey Bogart »

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #282 on: June 15, 2018, 11:05:21 »
Let's get back on track....

Gun tape. I (heart) Gun Tape.

Anyone with me?

If you can show a person who says they don't; I will show you a liar ;)
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #283 on: June 15, 2018, 11:27:22 »
If you can show a person who says they don't; I will show you a liar ;)

Precisely.

The ONLY way it could be made better would be to give it a matte finish, IMHO.
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #284 on: June 15, 2018, 13:18:38 »
If you can show a person who says they don't; I will show you a liar ;)

Love gun tape?  Nope!.  Like it, yes.  Admire?  Respect? Yes, yes.  Maybe even have a fondness that is unexplainable to those who haven't served in Canadian uniform.  But if you "heart" gun tape, you are probably doing things with it that shouldn't be known by loved ones, friends and colleagues.  And yes, I have seen some people who used gun tape for, let's say, very creative things.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #285 on: June 15, 2018, 17:24:53 »
Heretic, burn him at the stake, for not having unconditional love of all things guntape.   

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #286 on: June 15, 2018, 17:58:17 »
I just used some to tape up a training file folder that fell apart due to it containing the largest number of medical chits I've ever seen any candidate in the CAF have.  File Folder has been preserved!

Gun tape for then win!

Gun tape Is awesome!
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #287 on: June 15, 2018, 23:10:09 »
  ]

<caveat> I have no time with the RCAF <caveat>

If you have parts that are different depending on the side of the aircraft they are on then they should have different NSNs.  Your tech have publications and programs that should tell them what NSNs to order, I have sent many a stoker back to his CFTOs and schematics to investigate the part they need.  Ordering four of the same part, because you cant identify what you actually need, when you actually need one is only compounding the problem WRT lack of spare parts. 

Its a huge issue on ships.  Engineers are awful for keeping "bench stock" of even NS parts.  When these should be returned to the repair lines to continue the parts life cycle and be available for issue to someone in need.


I am not making this up.  Same NSNs slightly different part numbers (XXXX-01 vs XXXX-02).  This was discussed at fairly high levels (GOs) somewhat recently and I believe a change is coming.  People actually irder several of the same NSN in hopes to get the right part.  And sometimes, parts are time expired or plainly unserviceable (and even identified as such)...  our supply system may work for the Army and Navy but it ain't really working for the Air Force (our airworthiness program is a lot more rigourous than equivalents jn the Navy or Army). 

The issue with aircraft is they break.  And we don't have too many.  And our force generation programs depend on aircraft availability (and 1 aircraft avalaible doesn't cut it in a fighter squadron - you need at least
4 to do anything meaningful).  So when one breaks, we need parts yesterday.  Since we're not allowed to keep parts stocks at the unit, we have to go through the supply system.  The part takes a week to get here (and sometimes, it is the wrong part or it is not usable).  In the mean time, another aircraft breaks and we also need parts to fix it....  you see where this is going...

The Air Force, from my limited experience with other elements, has a lot faster pace while Force Generating.  It is always a high tempo to support FG (year round).  There is no real break in a year where we drop tools, stop flying and do other types of Force Generation.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #288 on: June 16, 2018, 00:42:06 »
Canopy ties, from parachutes. Do they still have those? That was part of my landing drills ‘remove canopy tie and stuff in pocket’. 
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #289 on: June 16, 2018, 14:47:33 »
That's not 100% true PC.  I would bet that there are a ton of people in the CAF who have Rucks and sleeping bag sys complete that aren't entitled to them.  We have an unfounded belief that the Canadian Forces Supply System is a constant failure, when in reality its not.  Its actually a very good system that we, the whole of the CAF, abuse and circumvent and then blame said system for failure.  We have a problem in the CAF and its Kit hoarding.  And its not just limited to clothing, its also spare parts.

Army boots.  NCDs.  aircrew knives.  flight suits.  strobe lights.

If we are short on all these things, how exactly do we have a good supply system?  I had a CT/OT show up.  He couldn't get a simple Air Ops capbadge.  Or the right slip ons.  Or boots.

That doesn't exactly reflect a 'very good system' to me.  I had to explain to Wg Supply and indirectly to the IM how there was a need for Supply to actually have on hand at least a few or the aircrew rescue tools.  They thought it was suitable if the mbr brought one in, and then a new ones was shipped from Depot.  I had to explain that the mbr might be flying the next day and that our orders state "shall fly with issued knife", etc.  It was really only when I said "ok, well I am the Sqn ALSEO and I have to go back and brief the CO on this whole shamoozle" that I really got them to listen.

If we can't get mandatory flying kit, cap badges and operational uniforms...our system is not working, IMO.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #290 on: June 16, 2018, 14:58:16 »
I love the new waterproof sleeping bag valise. Makes a great dry bag
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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #291 on: June 16, 2018, 16:38:39 »
Sorry I’m going on a tangent here, but we desperately need flightsuit. I heard someone mention they started issuing the tan one in Portage due to a critical shortage in the system. Anyone can confirm? 
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #292 on: June 16, 2018, 16:48:30 »
Now imagine if all aircrew trades were 100% manned.

I canmt get flight suits that have no holes or tears from supply...

Offline ballz

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #293 on: June 16, 2018, 18:27:16 »
We have an unfounded belief that the Canadian Forces Supply System is a constant failure, when in reality its not.  Its actually a very good system that we, the whole of the CAF, abuse and circumvent and then blame said system for failure.

If that's the problem, that's an internal control failure... which is entirely a part of the system you are calling great.

If I have a "great" financial system, but people keep stealing money... is it a great financial system?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 18:38:07 by ballz »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #294 on: June 16, 2018, 20:44:34 »
Now imagine if all aircrew trades were 100% manned.

I canmt get flight suits that have no holes or tears from supply...

And that is one layer of the 'dual layer' system;  this is, and should have been, totally preventable.  Not only can some of the Sqn folks not get flight suits, they can't get rescues tools/knives, or the outter piece of the glove system.  How are you supposed to fly with mandatory kit that you can't get ???  Where does it stop, especially with ASLE?
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #295 on: June 16, 2018, 21:08:28 »
And that is one layer of the 'dual layer' system;  this is, and should have been, totally preventable.  Not only can some of the Sqn folks not get flight suits, they can't get rescues tools/knives, or the outter piece of the glove system.  How are you supposed to fly with mandatory kit that you can't get ???  Where does it stop, especially with ASLE?

Rescue knives? I bet they're good kit, right?

You know, like the title of this thread :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Tcm621

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #296 on: June 17, 2018, 17:22:05 »
As a tech, I can vouch for Max's view. A part maybe the same from a supply stand point but perhaps only certain part numbers are approved for use on the plane. Occasionally, supply will stop carrying the part and move to a different part number and we are stuck seeking deviations which can take weeks or submitting a UCR which can take months or years. This is a systematic problem not a people problem because 90 percent of the suptechs who work at the units do what they can to help.

We have another issue which is a lack of parts being purchased or contracts for repair being unsigned. To give you a semi recent example, we had to swap Flight data recorders between planes because we had no serviceable ones in the system and no hope of getting one for months. That isn't even a case of not being able to fight a war, that is a case of being legal to fly. No one was hording FDRs, they had broken and we had no contract to fix them.

As I said, the system is broken and I have seen similar issues with 3 services. From Ranger blankets which were ops restricted to Afghanistan forcing guys in the Sudan to take a down filled sleeping bag, to a shortage of combat clothing in popular sizes, to mission critical parts being unavailable for long periods of time.

I know suptechs can only issue what is available so I don't blame the guys and gals on the front desk but claiming our supply problem is the result of members hording is just not true.

I am not making this up.  Same NSNs slightly different part numbers (XXXX-01 vs XXXX-02).  This was discussed at fairly high levels (GOs) somewhat recently and I believe a change is coming.  People actually irder several of the same NSN in hopes to get the right part.  And sometimes, parts are time expired or plainly unserviceable (and even identified as such)...  our supply system may work for the Army and Navy but it ain't really working for the Air Force (our airworthiness program is a lot more rigourous than equivalents jn the Navy or Army). 

The issue with aircraft is they break.  And we don't have too many.  And our force generation programs depend on aircraft availability (and 1 aircraft avalaible doesn't cut it in a fighter squadron - you need at least
4 to do anything meaningful).  So when one breaks, we need parts yesterday.  Since we're not allowed to keep parts stocks at the unit, we have to go through the supply system.  The part takes a week to get here (and sometimes, it is the wrong part or it is not usable).  In the mean time, another aircraft breaks and we also need parts to fix it....  you see where this is going...

The Air Force, from my limited experience with other elements, has a lot faster pace while Force Generating.  It is always a high tempo to support FG (year round).  There is no real break in a year where we drop tools, stop flying and do other types of Force Generation.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #297 on: June 17, 2018, 17:42:12 »
We incentivize people to work on the Transform line of business (shiny new things) and forget about the imperative of the Sustain line of business (keeping in operation what we already have).

So the Army will prioritize buying integrated GPS / radio / fighting harness / whatchamathingits over sleeping bags, rucksacks or other sustainment items.  Basic and boring doesn't get much attention or love, until it's not there.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #298 on: June 18, 2018, 07:51:37 »
I am running a 100% SCA/SLoc verification IAW Change of Command requirements.  This was previously completed in March of this year.  In less than 3 complete months since the last 100% verification I still have counts coming back with massive dollar value differences.  I still have SCA Holders asking why they cant see their holding balances.  I have NSNs that have been counted correct for the last years as suddenly coming up as deficient.

When I first came to this unit our Log O requested a Logistics Compliance Inspection (LRI).  The final report was 22 pages long and 11 of them belonged to Supply/LPO.  The other 11 were split between HR, Finance, and NPF.  It was not a good report, I have 17 months into fixing what is years of neglect and abuse and while we aren't perfect yet we are trending in the right direction.

Even after every member of this unit has had to read and sign the report, I continue to get static and opposition.  Material management isn't sexy.  Its time consuming and monotonous, there is no glory and usually the only feed back is negative.  If you look at the stats of requisitions submitted  V requisitions filled you will see the success rates are there.

Hoarding is a problem with clothing items.  We have the ability too manipulate data in DRMIS to find out who is holding what.  Anything outside of a members SOI(s) can be identified and return action requested.

Do we have a problematic procurement system, 100% yes.  Its restrictive, cumbersome, not designed for a military, and has so much red tape its a bureaucrat's wet dream.  But that is not the Canadian Forces Supply System (CFSS).  That the procurement system.  And while it feeds the CFSS they are not one in the same.  The CFSS is used to managed to the material that is fed into it. 

We are realizing that providing material support to 40 year old airframes is difficult, to put it nicely.  My 2nd ship was HMCS Preserver, we struggled with similar problems.  Hell we had crates in 12 Stores that were still labeled HMCS Hochelaga, bonus points if you know what that is/was.

We have the systems and the policies in place to successfully conduct material management for the CAF.  Actual stores volumes and enforcement of said system and policies it outside the control of the CFSS itself.

Neat factoid for you, our trade name is changing in the fall.  We are going from Supply Technician to Material Management Technician. 

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The stuff the Army issues is Excellent!
« Reply #299 on: June 18, 2018, 13:54:26 »
I just read an article that I cannot post here that quotes a LCol as saying there are 4000 members in the CAF with 2 more ruck sacks.  The 4000+ surplus to members entitlements rucks sure sound like hoarding to me. 
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