Author Topic: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS  (Read 415327 times)

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Offline Patski

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1200 on: January 19, 2018, 08:47:46 »
It does'nt really concern de AOPS, but as far as what icebreakers will be for the canadian coast guards, apparently, They will go with Project Resolute from Davie!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-icebreakers-davie-shipyard-canadian-coast-guard-negotiations-1.4492819

http://www.davie.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/icebreaker-briefing-RESOLUTE-1.pdf


Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1201 on: January 19, 2018, 08:48:46 »
We could very well could add modular add ons to Harry DeWolf if the situation called for it. The Danish Knud Rasmussen-class icebreakers only has a 76MM in one of the articles, they can add those weapon systems if needed.

And then get the MCDVs back to doing what we really need a military ship for... clearing minefields so we can access failed states to bring them parkas ;)
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Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1202 on: January 19, 2018, 09:04:39 »
And then get the MCDVs back to doing what we really need a military ship for... clearing minefields so we can access failed states to bring them parkas ;)

Unfortunately if we do that then we'll be attempting to use 5 (or 6?) ships to do what 12 are being expected to do today.  I know that there's the belief our Military should be doing more with less but this is a bit much.

I would think that the amount of maintenance time to keep these new AOPS's up and running in the non-accessible months to the Arctic will be much more than just sending a ship down to the Carb. or south of California - the distances that they'll have to travel from Vancouver to Nanisvik and back or Halifax to Nanisvik  and back is much farther than trips down south.  Wonder if any of this has been thought through.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1203 on: January 19, 2018, 09:49:52 »
Unfortunately if we do that then we'll be attempting to use 5 (or 6?) ships to do what 12 are being expected to do today.  I know that there's the belief our Military should be doing more with less but this is a bit much.

I would think that the amount of maintenance time to keep these new AOPS's up and running in the non-accessible months to the Arctic will be much more than just sending a ship down to the Carb. or south of California - the distances that they'll have to travel from Vancouver to Nanisvik and back or Halifax to Nanisvik  and back is much farther than trips down south.  Wonder if any of this has been thought through.

To be honest we are back to mine warfare and have been doing it for the last 3 years in regards to the Kingston Class. All ships including the Harry DeWolf Class have build in maintenance periods and the ships are designed to operate long periods without major work. These periods are also scheduled to allow the Harry DeWolf Class to deploy wherever the government wants them to go. This has been looked at.
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Online NavyShooter

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1204 on: January 19, 2018, 09:52:23 »
Have you ever read the Concept of Operations documents for the AOPS?

A lot of thought seems to have gone into it.

I think.
Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1205 on: January 19, 2018, 10:22:07 »
NS, as I've indicated before, while an enthusiast about naval matters, Czech_pivo is not a member of the RCN, so I don't think he has access to any of the RCN's ConOps documents.

Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1206 on: January 19, 2018, 10:43:45 »
NS, as I've indicated before, while an enthusiast about naval matters, Czech_pivo is not a member of the RCN, so I don't think he has access to any of the RCN's ConOps documents.

You are correct Sir - I'm just someone who loves this Country and wants best for it.
Sorry if I make comments that are blatantly obvious to you guys but I'm just trying to put the bigger picture together in my head and understand what the real issues are.

If the intent is to use the 5 or 6 AOPS to perform the 'old' roles of the 12 Kingston's, plus the extra duties in the Arctic and the 12 Kingston's are going back to their originally designed role of mine warfare, then is there not a 'gap' or shortfall in what the Kingston's were doing in terms of drug interdiction down in the Carrib. and south of California?  They is no way that 5 or 6 can do what 12 was doing previously.
 

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1207 on: January 19, 2018, 11:10:07 »
The AOPS are not replacing the MCDVs. The MCDVs are being retained.

Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1208 on: January 19, 2018, 11:26:11 »
The AOPS are not replacing the MCDVs. The MCDVs are being retained.

Yes, I do realise that they are being retained.  I was under the belief that the AOPS will be taking over the role/responsibilities of the Kingston's as they, as pointed out earlier today, are going back to their original role of mine warfare role and won't be heading back to the Arctic or the south for drug interdiction as they were previously assigned. Maybe I've misunderstood. 

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1209 on: January 19, 2018, 12:24:26 »
Yes, I do realise that they are being retained.  I was under the belief that the AOPS will be taking over the role/responsibilities of the Kingston's as they, as pointed out earlier today, are going back to their original role of mine warfare role and won't be heading back to the Arctic or the south for drug interdiction as they were previously assigned. Maybe I've misunderstood.

No they will still deploy to the Arctic and Caribbean according to the concept of operations for the Kingston Class.
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Offline Underway

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1210 on: January 19, 2018, 18:59:23 »
Yes, I do realise that they are being retained.  I was under the belief that the AOPS will be taking over the role/responsibilities of the Kingston's as they, as pointed out earlier today, are going back to their original role of mine warfare role and won't be heading back to the Arctic or the south for drug interdiction as they were previously assigned. Maybe I've misunderstood.

MCDV's will still do Recognized Maritime Picture in the arctic.  This last summer they intercepted that Chinese "fishing boat" everyone was freaking out about.  So despite their non-ice capability and slow speed they still do good work.

AOP's can just go more places and carry more people for arctic ops.  They will do similar jobs differently with different capabilities and new jobs as well.  Screwdriver and hammer, not just hammer for the tools in the toolbox.  Also add points on the map where a ship can be.  Just more ships doing the business will improve arctic sovereignty and Carib ops. 

Offline JackD

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1211 on: February 19, 2018, 07:16:55 »
Perhaps we'll see a RCN ship visit CFS Alert once more. The last (if I got my history right) was HMCS/CGS Labrador which reached Cape Sheridan - that is if the map in the history annex of  CFS Alert was correct - and my memory as well (1976 was a long time ago).

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1212 on: February 19, 2018, 07:33:29 »
Perhaps we'll see a RCN ship visit CFS Alert once more. The last (if I got my history right) was HMCS/CGS Labrador which reached Cape Sheridan - that is if the map in the history annex of  CFS Alert was correct - and my memory as well (1976 was a long time ago).

I'm pretty sure HMCS Labrador never reached Cape Sheridan when the RCN had her, if fact the farthest North a RCN ship ever reached was 80 degrees. Now CGS Labrador may of reached Cape Sheridan.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1213 on: February 19, 2018, 08:27:18 »
HMCS Shawinigan holds the RCN record for getting the farthest north: 80 degrees 28 minutes, during OP NANOOK 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Shawinigan_(MM_704)

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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1214 on: February 19, 2018, 08:29:48 »
HMCS Shawinigan holds the RCN record for getting the farthest north: 80 degrees 28 minutes, during OP NANOOK 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Shawinigan_(MM_704)

Yes we about 20 NM away from Hans Island before we decided to turn back, not before we decided to do a polar bear dip. ;D
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1215 on: February 22, 2018, 12:24:48 »
AOPs #2 coming together (I like that paint booth)

http://shipsforcanada.ca/images/progress-images/IMG_4313.JPG


« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 12:28:55 by Colin P »

Online whiskey601

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1216 on: February 27, 2018, 09:02:48 »
Is there a reliable open source available for the surveillance and search fit for the HdW class? LMC has little information, but I see that both TermaRadar and Thales have sources stating they are supplying the SCANTER 6002 and the TRS-3D/16-ES, respectively. Most mast drawings I have viewed do not depict the TRS radar set, and the government specs reportedly call out both AESA and MESA radars (according to most sources).  I don't think this correct.

The mast space for sensors appear to support something like the SCANTER, and some sort of new(ish) Sperry radar is also depicted.

Also, I would like to think that there is power, rack space, conduit, cabling, deck space and mast space available for an eventual decent ELINT fit (ie and not just whatever the Cyclone might have).  One would think that a patrol ship with surveillance duties and no real combat role might have a decent suite fitted or plans for fitting or does that seem out of place for this particular ship.






Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1217 on: April 05, 2018, 15:51:11 »
Had the opportunity to tour Ejnar Mikkelsen today, a Knud Rasmussen class of offshore patrol vessels operating in the Royal Danish Navy.
Here is a link to the tour photos. A nice little ship.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GOCANADANAVY/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1808235645901824
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1218 on: April 05, 2018, 16:00:37 »
Nice pics, Chief!

Nice to see also that the USS Little Rock finally managed to escape the St Lawrence.  ;D

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1219 on: April 05, 2018, 16:52:37 »
Can you imagine the outcry if someone put a poster up in the gym on a Canadian ship like they have? LoL!

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1220 on: April 05, 2018, 16:56:48 »
Can you imagine the outcry if someone put a poster up in the gym on a Canadian ship like they have? LoL!

Nice eye, I wondered when that would be picked up. That had others as well, no Operation Honour on that ship.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1221 on: April 16, 2018, 11:59:21 »
Would it make sense to eventually replace the MCDV's with a vessel like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knud_Rasmussen-class_patrol_vessel or our they to big to do the minehunting role?

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1222 on: April 16, 2018, 12:06:07 »
The problem would not be size here, Colin, it would be the lack of good deck space, layout and  handling equipment for the mine warfare deployable gear. And if you put that on board, then you lose the flight deck and the storage below for the large boat and ramp that the Rasmussen class carries.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1223 on: April 16, 2018, 12:26:32 »
Would it make sense to eventually replace the MCDV's with a vessel like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knud_Rasmussen-class_patrol_vessel or our they to big to do the minehunting role?

For the patrol role yes and it could certainly do mine warfare. It has a crane that could launch the AUV's that we're currently using. There is some limitations such as one ROD plant that would need to be rectified and would need degausing gear installed in the build. As well it carries muti beam sonar that the Danes use for chart making, and is exactly what the Kingston Class has done in the past.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1224 on: April 16, 2018, 12:36:12 »
Had the opportunity to tour Ejnar Mikkelsen today, a Knud Rasmussen class of offshore patrol vessels operating in the Royal Danish Navy.
Here is a link to the tour photos. A nice little ship.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GOCANADANAVY/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1808235645901824

The shock and horror that their crewmembers are dressed in Multicam!    ::)

Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."