Author Topic: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)  (Read 340140 times)

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Offline helpup

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #700 on: February 26, 2009, 13:25:05 »
A panier is the " baracks box " for medics has 101+1 drawrs and pull outs in it, normally is a top loading lid with differant shelving boxes in them. 
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #701 on: February 26, 2009, 13:29:22 »
A panier is the " baracks box " for medics has 101+1 drawrs and pull outs in it, normally is a top loading lid with differant shelving boxes in them.

Almost, but not quite.  That's a battle box.  Here is a picture (albeit small) of a medical set up.  If you look at the lower left side, you will see a battle box on top of a pannier. But yes, a pannier is a metal "barrack box" in which the med section would store their medical kit and supplies.  Usually they had a set of seven plus the battle box.  Bde Pharm is the resupply for the medical units in a brigade and they had two sets of 33, IIRC.

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Offline MCG

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #702 on: February 26, 2009, 13:29:59 »
It has NOW been prohibited by Ottawa (DSCO 2-5-3 Clothing policy and procedures) to permit members to wear boots other than those issued by the QM, even if the cost was absorbed by the member.
Some of this makes sense.  It is not the responsibility of the health services community to validate that your boots fit.  That is the responsibility of the supply system (either through LPO or “made to measure” versions of what is in service).  Instead of burdening the supply system with a constant stream of individuals looking for unnecessary medical authorization for fitting boots (you are entitled to fitting boots even without asking a doctor).  The only time footwear should be a medical issue is when the source of the problem is the foot.

In those instances where a medical problem does require sourcing special boots, the sited reference states that it is not the job of health services to identify that soldier needs brand ‘X.’  Once the medical decision is made, it is again the job of the supply system to get the right solution (within whatever guidelines exist for LPO or ordering custom builds of issue boots).

Quote
Requests specifically for civilian pattern boots from HCPs should be very rare as their role in most cases will be to determine if the member's current CF footwear is adequate and to then make recommendations for special size footwear or vibram soling which would allow the CFSS to determine the most adequate footwear for the member.
http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/health-sante/pd/pol/word/4090-20-eng.doc

I don’t think there is one style boot that will meet the requirements of all Army users.  We might be able to come close by giving soldiers a few options, but that still remains a requirements & supply problem (not medical).

Something is off here though ...

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #703 on: February 26, 2009, 13:56:38 »
Almost, but not quite.  That's a battle box.  Here is a picture (albeit small) of a medical set up.  If you look at the lower left side, you will see a battle box on top of a pannier. But yes, a pannier is a metal "barrack box" in which the med section would store their medical kit and supplies.  Usually they had a set of seven plus the battle box.  Bde Pharm is the resupply for the medical units in a brigade and they had two sets of 33, IIRC.
Hence My " " on the term baracks box,  it still comes with a lid is stackable and to us 031's is a loose equivelent to our "baracks box" with shelves. in it
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #704 on: February 26, 2009, 14:03:51 »
Section G - Tailoring, measuring and fitting for footwear and clothing
3-13G-001. Alterations and repairs
1.  Policy for repair of personal allotment clothing is as follows:

Repairs are made at public expense. Repairs are limited to that of rendering the item serviceable to fulfill its designed function and do not involve extensive uneconomical repair or alterations.

Minor repairs are the responsibility of the individual, i.e., replacement of button, small tears, etc. The supply staff ensure that the best interests have the individual and department are served when determining repair vice replacement.

2.  Alterations to loan clothing should be the exception rather than the rule since most personal and temporary allotment clothing has a functional rather than an appearance purpose.

3.  District tailoring facilities or local contract shall normally be used to effect alterations and repairs. If neither facility is available, B/W/S Sup O may arrange to have the alterations effected through petty cash as authorized by procurement.

3-13G-002. Special size personal allotment clothing, footwear and orthopaedic furniture
4.  Special size clothing:

Except for those non-stocked items, which are normally issued as made-to-measure, every effort shall be made to equip personnel from standard or peripheral stock sizes. This includes carrying out minor alterations and adjustments to obtain a reasonable fit. Because of the tolerances allowed in the production of garments, attempts should be made to fit personnel before resorting to Special Clothing Size Roll procedures.

Personnel who cannot be equipped with standard or peripheral size garments are entitled to the issue of special size items for actual requirements, not exceeding the quantity authorized by the applicable EGC.

When uniforms or other articles of clothing require special procurement. For example, a size not stocked at any level, B/W/S Sup O shall confirm all requests prior to initiating procurement action. Prices are obtained from local manufacturers and procurement action is taken IAW DAOD 3004. Bases, stations, and wings fund special size requirements from Command allotments. If an individual is undergoing training at a unit other than his home unit, funding for special size clothing, footwear, and equipment should be requested from the individual’s home unit.

Under no circumstances shall personnel be permitted to provide materiel for manufacture of special size clothing. The base/station/wing requisition materiel in the normal manner if available from the system, it must be ordered from Logistik Unicorp after obtaining a valid stock number from the C3-01 Coordinator. Uniform specifications must also be obtained from Director Soldier Systems Program Management (DSSPM C3-01 Contract Coordinator) and obtain uniform specifications from Director Soldier Systems Program Management (DSSPM C3 Contract Coordinator) for guidance to manufacturers. The supply of materiel and specifications to the manufacturer from the system ensures a high standard of uniformity in dress. Normally, special size clothing shall not be ordered for individuals during their last six months of service.

To obtain special size clothing, form DND 2160 (21-883-2991), Special Clothing Size Roll (men) or form DND 2159 (21-870-7580), Special Clothing Size Roll (women), as applicable, shall be prepared in 3 copies with distribution as follows:

i.  Two copies to manufacturer
ii. One copy to be filed in individuals CF 892

Note: Manufacturers may elect to use their own sizing forms. In this case, sufficient copies are obtained to meet distribution requirements.

Where there is a major discrepancy between the garment and the size roll, the following standardized procedure is implemented:

i. The unit tailor or qualified service personnel measure the individual, check the size roll for correctness, chalk mark the garment where incorrect and detail the alterations required for a proper fit.
ii. The contractor verifies the discrepancies between the garment and size roll and if it cannot be satisfactorily altered, the contractor is requested to manufacture a new garment.
iii. Invoices are held pending receipt of a satisfactory garment.

Where garments are received and rejected for reasons other than a   contractor’s deficiency, disposal action is to be initiated. A new order shall be initiated to satisfy the individual.

When a contractor is not available in the vicinity of the base/station/wing, orders are placed directly to the nearest available manufacturer. B/W/S Sup O shall ensure that only unit civilian tailors or qualified service personnel measure individuals for special size clothing using the guidelines detailed. These measurements must be typed or legibly written on the Special Size Roll. Districts carry out minor alterations upon receipt to ensure a satisfactory fit. However, where there is an obvious discrepancy between the garment and the size roll, items are returned collect to the manufacturer accompanied by a letter detailing the reason for return.

When special size clothing is ordered for an individual MSO014 Supply Customer Maintenance shall be used to annotate the member’s IA (special instructions) with the special size requirements. Item(s) should be brought on charge using special size NSN for that particular garment.

Except in the case of an occupational transfer, special size roll public clothing issued to an individual shall not be withdrawn when the employment justifying its issue ceases; the individual retains that clothing, if serviceable, during his period of service.

5.  Special size footwear:

The following definitions are provided for the purpose of this article:
 

Orthoses: Is an orthopaedic appliance or apparatus used to support, align, prevent or correct deformities or to improve function of moveable parts of the body. One common example is a custom foot insole. 

Orthopaedic Footwear: Is custom footwear required by individuals with deformed or surgically treated feet. This includes custom-made military pattern footwear, and internal or external modifications to military and civilian footwear. Orthopaedic footwear is funded by the Command Surgeon.
 

If after being fitted IAW Measuring and fitting of footwear (3-13G-003) an individual is found to have a foot size, which does not fall within the range of standard catalogue footwear sizes and does not require orthopaedic footwear, the individual will be provided with special size footwear. B/W/S are responsible to fund these requirements through their Command allotments. All special size boots are free issue to all Regular and Reserve force members. Supply sections shall ensure the member receives footwear that fits properly and that meets performance and quality standards equivalent to the authorized CF footwear to which the member is entitled as defined in the applicable scales of issue. Special size safety footwear must meet the safety standards of the regulation footwear. Supply sections are under no obligation to procure brand name footwear. The procedures for Special size shoes/oxfords is covered at para 7.

Athletic Shoes will only be issued to recruits on a one time basis and will not be exchangeable or available for purchase.  CF members Regular and Reserve force are responsible for the purchase of athletic shoes upon completion of recruit training.   The only exception would be for a member who has suffered a CF related injury or has surgically treated feet and requires a custom build athletic shoe.  In these rare cases the athletic shoe would be purchased by supply and funded by the Command Surgeon.

Note:  Class “A” Reservists shall only be issued one pair of Special Size Boots or Oxfords/Shoes as applicable. For example if an individual is entitled to one pair of shoes and two pair of boots the individual shall be issued one pair of shoes and one pair of boots. If the individual is converted to “B” or “C” class they shall be issued their full entitlement.

When special size footwear is ordered for an individual Supply Customer Maintenance MSO014 shall be used to annotate the member’s IA (special instructions) with the special size requirements. Item(s) should be brought on charge using the stock code of the closest size, taking caution to ensure that the total quantity (comprised of current balance, dues-in and special size items) does not exceed the district ROP/ROQ, which in turn could result in redistribution. Each time the individual requires footwear; the IA shall be checked to ascertain when the item was previously issued. Normally, special size footwear shall not be ordered for individuals during their last six months of service.

Special size footwear issued to an individual shall not be withdrawn when the employment justifying its issue ceases. The individual retains the footwear during his entire period of service.

6.  Orthopaedic and modified footwear:

When recommended by a medical board or specialist, individuals with deformed or surgically treated feet shall be provided with specially made or modified footwear in lieu of regulation boots and shoes.

Orthopaedic footwear shall be obtained through a Federal, Provincial or local orthopaedic and prosthetic facility IAW MSI 7000-011 Footwear requiring modification shall be altered as required by the same orthopaedic facility or by local procurement when authorized by the base medical officer, at no expense to the individual.

Special Size Orthopaedic boots and modification to boots are always at no cost to the member.  Special Size Orthopaedic Boots shall be brought on charge by CRV and entered on the individual’s IA.  Only the initial issue of Orthopaedic shoes/oxfords are free issue, procedures are detailed in para 7 of this article. 

Normally orthopaedic footwear shall not be ordered for individuals during their last six months of service.

Orthopaedic footwear obtained as per MSI 7000-011 is paid for by the appropriate Command Surgeon.

7.  Special Size Shoes/Oxfords

Special size shoes/oxfords are free issue upon enrolment.  Following enrolment special size shoe requirements must be purchased using applicable points for shoes/oxfords. If points are not available, member is required to purchase the shoes as per the price indicated using MSO101, option 1, action code “9.”  There are only two exceptions, which allow the free issue of shoes/oxfords following an individual’s enrolment:

The initial issue of shoes/oxfords as a result of a change in medical condition which requires shoes to accommodate orthoses such as arch supports, special insoles etc. The member must present the prescription or medical chit to Clothing Stores to be entitled to the initial free issue. The initial issue is funded by the supporting supply section through Command allotments. All subsequent requirements must be paid for using the applicable points for shoes/oxfords or funded by the member as per the price indicated using MSO101, option 1, action code “9” Clothing Stores must forward details of special size shoe purchases including members name, SN, item purchased to DSSPM email who will have the applicable number of points removed from the members account.

The initial issue of Orthopaedic or modified shoes/oxfords are free issue, and funded by the Command Surgeon. Any subsequent issues must be paid for using the applicable number of points for shoes/oxfords or funded by the member with the price indicated using MSO101 option “9." Orthopaedic footwear is defined at Para 5a. Clothing Stores must forward details of purchase to DSSPM so points can be removed, same procedure as for special size shoes. A copy of the medical officer’s recommendation is to be filed in the individual’s CF 892, and Supply Customer Maintenance MSO014 shall be used to annotate the member’s IA (special instructions) with the appropriate information.

8.  Resoling of MKIII combat boots NSN 8430-21-872-4291

Resoling is limited to the MKIII combat boot only, Medical Specialist Officers and GDMO are the only authority that can prescribe replacement of the insole and outsole components. Funding for the replacement of components is the responsibility of the supporting supply section through their command allotments as per the special funding requirements.

In the event that resoling of the MKIII is prescribed alteration specifications should be coordinated between the Medical Officer and the physiotherapist. NDHQ/DSSPM 2-3 is available to provide technical assistance, as required. 

In the event that resoling is prescribed to alleviate a medical condition diagnosed IAW policies established in MSI 7000-011, the following specifications should be followed:
 

Materiel - Vibram “Sierra” (Model #1276) or Vibram “Kletterlift” (Model #148) outsole with a cushion midsole of polyurethane.

Thickness - The thickness of the polyurethane should be sufficient to maintain the original heel elevation of the boot. It should generally run from approximately 1 inch thick at the heel to a third of an inch - to half an inch at the ball and toe.

9. Orthopaedic furniture. Orthopaedic furniture shall only be procured for individuals whose requirements have been given a prognosis and have been identified on an appropriate certificate signed by a medical doctor or chiropractor. A copy of the medical certificate shall be filed in the member's CF 892.  It is a unit responsibility to fund orthopaedic furniture requirements. Issues of orthopaedic chairs or furniture shall be classified as personal allotments and shall be documented on the individual’s IA special instructions using Supply Customer Maintenance MSO014. Stock number 21AAE4895 shall be used to issue orthopaedic chairs to a member’s IA. 

10.  Retention on posting of special size/orthopaedic clothing, footwear and equipment. When an individual is posted, transferred or seconded to another department the base/station/wing shall ensure that special size/orthopaedic items accompany the individual. In the case of furniture, these items may accompany individuals provided that there is departmental agreement that such transfers are cost beneficial.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #705 on: February 26, 2009, 14:04:24 »
3-13G-003. Measuring and fitting of footwear
11.  This book details the responsibility of supply officers and the procedures to be followed at B/W/S to ensure that all personnel are issued with correctly measured and fitted footwear and clothing.

12.  It is the responsibility of the B/W/S Sup O to ensure that the correct size footwear is issued to all personnel. Improperly fitted footwear affects the general well being of an individual, often to such an extent as to impair health, morale and efficiency. It is, therefore, of the utmost importance that individuals wear footwear for which they have been measured and properly fitted.

13.  Each individual shall be measured using Scholls, Ritz or Korrecto foot-measuring devices. The instructions for use are found on the reverse side of the device. Both feet must be measured, and the longer foot shall take precedence in determining size.

14.  When measured IAW the above paragraph, the individual shape of the foot, which affects comfort, is not taken into account, therefore, a test for overall fit of the selected size of footwear is necessary.

15.  After a size has been determined by means of the foot-measuring device, a fitting test shall be made on both feet, ensuring that, when fitting boots, combat, GS Mk 111 (modified), the saran mesh insoles are the correct size and in place with the nylon layer next to the foot. It shall be ensured that individuals:

are wearing the type of hose which complies with regulations for the type of footwear being fitted are standing erect for combat boots have their weight evenly distributed on both feet have their heels well back in the footwear, with the footwear fully laced up who normally wear arch supports or other orthopaedic aids are wearing these appliances at the time of fitting.

16.  The following four tests are performed when checking the fit of all types of military boots and shoes:

Test 1 - Snug fit under the arch is determined by grasping both shoes over the instep with the thumbs on the outside and the fingers pressing firmly against the under arch, close to the outer soles on the inner side of the shoes. The leather should lie snugly against the under arch and should be free from excessive wrinkles and fullness.

Test 2 - Proper position of the ball joint is determined by locating the ball joint with the thumb of each hand. The ball joint should lie approximately in the widest portion of the shoe, just ahead of the area where the sole curves into the shank under the arch.

Test 3 - placing a thumb low on either side of the vamp, at the widest part of the shoe, and gradually working each thumb slowly upwards towards the centre until the thumbs nearly meet determine proper width across the ball of the shoe. The foot without apparent tightness or excessive fullness should fill the shoe. Each shoe must be checked separately for width.

Test 4 - Proper length is determined by pressing each shoe at the toe with both thumbs. The proper length of footwear manufactured with hard box toes shall be determined by the position of the ball of the foot in relation to the ball of the shoe and the foot under the arch. Toe room in boots or shoes not having hard box toes may be determined by having the person being fitted move his toes while the fitter feels the upper area of the shoe or boot to determine the amount of free space. There should be a clearance or space of approximately one-half inch between the end of the longest toe and the end of the shoe. Each shoe must be tested separately for length.

17.  If fitting indicates that an individual’s foot size is not within the range of standard catalogue footwear sizes, the individual is provided with locally purchased special size footwear IAW Special size footwear.

3-13G-004. Measuring and fitting of stocked clothing
18.  The importance of supplying uniforms that fit correctly cannot be over-emphasized. Proper fit is necessary for smart military appearance and is an important factor in creating and maintaining high morale, which accompanies the assurance of being well dressed. The responsibilities for ensuring personnel are well-dressed rests with the B/W/S Sup O and staff who carry out the actual issue and fitting of garments.

19.  Outer garments should be fitted over any garment that is intended for wear under that garment. For example, an individual should be wearing a jacket when being fitted for an overcoat. The detailed fitting instruction lists the garments that should be worn when fitting a specific garment.

20.  All outer garments must be tried on by the individual at the time of issue to ensure a correct fit ensured by the supply staff. Under no circumstances is an individual advised to, required or permitted to accept poorly fitting garments with the understanding that he or she can exchange them at a later date or at another supply section.

21.  The predominant consideration for fitting garments that fit the upper part of the body is that they should be the fit through the shoulders, neckline and armhole. Alterations are very difficult and expensive in these areas. Length to waist and the full length of the garment should be the secondary consideration. All dress jackets, coats, overcoats, etc for men and women are provided with outlet allowances on side seams to facilitate circumference alterations. In addition, sleeve and bottom hems are generous to allow increases in length. It is inadvisable to issue a size merely to obtain the correct sleeve length.

22.  For men’s trousers and women’s slacks choose the size to fit the hip and rise, then adjust the waistline.

23.  The following measurements should be taken to issue the proper size:

Men’s trousers - height and waist. The out seam measurement minus the inseam measurement gives the rise.
Men’s coats, all weather coat, raincoat - height, chest and cross back width.
Men’s shirts - neck (plus sleeve length for long sleeve styles).
Women’s slacks - height, waist and hip.
Women’s jackets - height and bust.
Women’s shirts - neck and bust (plus sleeve length for long sleeve styles).

24.  To ensure a correct fit, the supply staff shall:

Take the individual’s measurements which are appropriate for the garment being fitted; forms CF 764, Special Clothing Size Roll (men) or CF 859, Special Clothing Size Roll (women) may be used as a guideline to measuring.

Select the appropriate stock size by comparing the individual’s measurements to the size chart for the garment being fitted.

When dimensions taken are in between sizes, round out the numbers to the next higher number.

Try the garment on the individual to be fitted to determine that the size selected is an appropriate fit IAW the detailed fitting instructions. Care should be taken to check the fit from front, back and side views. An individual may have to try on several sizes before the best fit is found.

Only after the best fitting garment has been found, determine what alterations, if any, are needed in consultation with the base tailor if possible.

After alterations have been made, fit the garment on the individual again to ensure a correct fit.

25.  When a correct fit cannot be achieved from the stock size range, arrange for special size garments to be issued as outlined in Special size clothing.

26.  The following guidelines shall be observed in the measuring and fitting of personnel with garments from stock:

When issuing combat clothing, ensure that the coat and liner are the same size. The coat must be fitted on the individual with the liner installed.

The individual shall not wear shoes or boots while being measured for height. Height dimensions on size scales are for subjects standing erect in stocking feet, taken from the floor to the top of the head.

To determine headdress sizes for men, the following procedure shall apply:

i. measure around the largest portion of the individual’s head and midway on the depth of the forehead
ii. deduct one inch from the measurement obtained
iii. divide the remainder by three
iv. the result provides the correct headdress size required.

To determine hat sizes for women, the following procedures shall apply:

i. measure around the largest portion of the individuals head and midway on the depth of the forehead
ii. the result provides give the correct hat size required.

For coats and jackets the predominant factors for fit should be the fit at the shoulders and neckline, the depth of armhole, back length to waist and full length of garment. Once the correct chest and shoulder fit have been determined it may be necessary to select the same chest measurements from another height group to obtain a garment with the correct body and sleeve length. Selection of the best fitting garment at the initial stages will reduce the number of alterations required, loss of time and administrative costs due to alterations.

Sizes should be chosen to keep alterations to a minimum. Alterations should be made only when the correct fit cannot be obtained from the size scale. Any alteration made must not:

i. change the design from that approved for wear
ii. be greater than the replacement cost of the garment.

3-13G-005. Measuring for special size clothing
27.  Forms CF 764 or CF 859 shall not be submitted unless it is impossible to fit from standard stock sizes or by altering standard sizes. Special size roll garments are not tailor-made garments in the traditional sense, and personnel are better served by the alteration of an existing size rather than the procurement of a special size.

28.  Once it is established that an individual cannot be fitted from stock, forms CF 764 or CF 859 shall be prepared ensuring the following points are observed:

It is essential that all measurements called up on forms CF 764 or CF 859 for a particular garment be taken exactly as directed on these forms and accurately recorded in the spaces provided.

Unless directed otherwise on forms CF 764 or CF 859, personnel being measured should stand in a comfortable position, without shoes, with feet together and arms at sides, but not in a position of attention.

Chest, bust, cross back, neck to waist, sleeve and waist measurements shall be taken with coat off, over the shirt.

Any peculiarity in an individual’s figure shall be recorded in the space for remarks on forms CF 764 or CF 859.

Once completed, these forms shall be submitted IAW Special size clothing.

29.  Uniforms currently in use by individuals are not authorized for alterations to meet the specifications contained in this instruction. New issues conform to the new fitting instructions.
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #706 on: February 26, 2009, 14:12:18 »
Holy crap, Vern!  I have never been fitted for boots like that.  We'd need a lot more supply techs, wouldn't we? 

However, I will say that my boot requirement is not medical in that there is nothing wrong with my feet, the boots just don't fit (that's after trying three different sizes).
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #707 on: February 26, 2009, 14:19:57 »
Holy crap, Vern!  I have never been fitted for boots like that.  We'd need a lot more supply techs, wouldn't we? 

However, I will say that my boot requirement is not medical in that there is nothing wrong with my feet, the boots just don't fit (that's after trying three different sizes).

Then Para 4 in the second post down becomes applicable to you.

SIZE = Supply system with NO chit necessary.

MEDICAL = Chit from Med System, then Supply action to fill requirement.
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #708 on: February 26, 2009, 14:25:58 »
Yeah, I get that, I've just never been able to exercise it.  They (Kingston) just kept throwing different sizes of boots at me and told me to try them, which is why I gave up on the WWB.
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #709 on: February 26, 2009, 19:35:27 »
AV,

I tried reading all that...my eyes are now crossed and I think I pissed my pants.  Tks!

 ;)
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #710 on: February 26, 2009, 19:43:14 »
AV,

I tried reading all that...my eyes are now crossed and I think I pissed my pants.  Tks!

 ;)

This ought to really do it for you then.  :-*   >:D

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #711 on: February 26, 2009, 19:45:12 »
Great..with my eyes crossed from your previous post, I saw 2 of them!   :-X
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #712 on: February 26, 2009, 22:44:15 »
Something is off.
It has NOW been prohibited by Ottawa (DSCO 2-5-3 Clothing policy and procedures) to permit members to wear boots other than those issued by the QM, even if the cost was absorbed by the member.
DSCO 2 is the same section which is responsible for the Canadian Forces Supply Manual.  Last spring, that manual contained a paragraph authorizing service personnel to purchase their own boots if they did not like what was available in the system:
From the CFSM (Canadian Forces Supply Manual) Vol 3, Ch 13, Sec G, Art 002, para 5e:
Ref: CFSM 3-13G-002.5e

e.  Individuals whose foot size falls within the range of standard catalogue sizes and who do not accept the service footwear shall be advised to obtain footwear from other sources at their own expense. To ensure uniformity and quality of dress, CF personnel shall select commercial footwear that conforms as closely as possible to the standards of the regulation footwear.   
... but then that para suddenly disappeared: 
It appears the "Buy your own boots if you don't like the issued ones.", exemption is no longer available.  I just looked at the Supply Manual (http://dgmssc.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dmpp_apps/SupplyManual/WebHelp/index.htm) today and the para relating to that is gone
So, I asked some questions when this popped-up back in the summer.  Director Supply Chain Operations (DSCO) does not have responsibility for dress regulations, does not establish footwear requirements, and is not the footwear technical authority.  It seems the paragraph did not disappear due to a change in heart; it disappeared because DSCO did not have the authority to authorize soldiers to wear what they want.

If DSCO cannot authorize a buy-your-own policy, then I am skeptical that DSCO could prohibit the same.

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #713 on: February 27, 2009, 05:58:56 »
Something is off...

I'll wager that the quote Bzzzz is using would more properly interpreted as this:

Quote
It has NOW been prohibited by Ottawa (DSCO 2-5-3 Clothing policy and procedures) to permit members to wear boots other than those issued by the QM, even if the cost was absorbed by the member.

Boots we purchase for members due to SIZE & MEDICAL requirements are indeed bought by the QM and then ISSUED to the member by the QM.  They STILL qualify and are authorized for wear IAW the above quote - they ARE issued boots that show up on the member's docs.

And, according to the CFSM I've posted below ... purchase of special size or LPOd for medical or size needs is STILL legal and authorized.

Someone out there thinks "special sized or medical boots" aren't "issued by the QM". <--- They are wrong.

Bzzzz quote means members can no longer purchase their own boots and wear them about in uniform, it's got SFA to do with medical or sized boots which are bought and issued by the QM (Clothing actually, clothing stores is not the QM).
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #714 on: February 27, 2009, 06:41:53 »
Bzzzz quote means members can no longer purchase their own boots and wear them about in uniform, it's got SFA to do with medical or sized boots which are bought and issued by the QM (Clothing actually, clothing stores is not the QM).
That is how I read the paragraph.  DSCO did not have the authority to say that members could purchase their own boots and wear them in uniform, and they do not have the authority to say that members cannot purchase their own boots and wear them in uniform. 

If DSCO was involved, then it might have been in telling the medical community to stop producing brand-name chits & buy your own chits. It would have been a "you HSS stick to your job of identifying those special medically related footwear requirements, and stay out of supply's job of then providing the footwear."   ... and that would be the limit of DSCO's authority in the area. 

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #715 on: February 27, 2009, 07:52:58 »
If DSCO was involved, then it might have been in telling the medical community to stop producing brand-name chits & buy your own chits. It would have been a "you HSS stick to your job of identifying those special medically related footwear requirements, and stay out of supply's job of then providing the footwear."   ... and that would be the limit of DSCO's authority in the area.

And that's exactly the point that was intended with the message. The message (and a letter sent throughout Hlth Svcs saying the same thing) is at least 2 years old now. It was sent before "DCSO" actually re-named to "DCSO". It noted that MOs did not have authority to prescribe "a specific brand", nor was Supply under any obligation to procur a "specific brand" of footwear.

That is also re-itterated in the paste from the sup manual that I included yesterday. I've wrote about that message on this forum before ....

it seems that someone is interpreting it wrongly ... but it's years old now.
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #716 on: February 27, 2009, 08:03:14 »
So, the Snr MO for Montreal Garrison needs a kick in the junk?
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #717 on: February 27, 2009, 08:15:17 »
While some of her background information is misleading, the core message is true.  If you have a medical chit authorizing you to wear a specific brand name or to buy your own, then that medical chit is invalid.  If you want to wear boots that you have purchsed, talk to your chain of command & not to someone in Health Services.

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #718 on: February 27, 2009, 08:17:05 »
I will quote the text word for word to avoid any misinterpretations on my translation:

Il nous a MAINTENANT été interdit par Ottawa (DSCO 2-5-3 Clothing Policy and Procedures) de permettre aux militaires de porter d'autres bottes que celles fournies par le Quartier Maitre, meme si ceci était aux frais du militaire.  (ex. Danners, Magnum).

My read on this is, if the QM gave me the boots then I am good to go.
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #719 on: February 27, 2009, 08:34:32 »
My read on this is, if the QM gave me the boots then I am good to go.

Exactly.

If stocked boots we issue don't fit you, we (QM) buy you boots that do and then issue them to you - these are AUTHORIZED and LEGAL for wear. And, if some dinosaur tells you that you aren't authorized to wear them - you say "these ARE the boots that the Supply system issued me, call them and ask." I HAVE been called by RSMs before who were checking to see if a troops' story was true and I have zero problems with telling RSMs "Yes indeed Sir, we had to purchase him footwear due to sizing requirements" (in the case of medical boots ... you should be carrying a copy of your chit around with you anyway to show said RSM).

If you have a medical chit for footwear for medical requirements, we (QM) file that chit onto your docs and then buy you boots that satisfy the medical requirement and then issue them to you - these are AUTHORIZED and LEGAL for wear.
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #720 on: February 27, 2009, 08:46:44 »
Perfect.  Tks for that!
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #721 on: February 27, 2009, 09:19:14 »
Except that the MO can no longer just simply write you a chit that says "must wear ballet slippers" without having proper medical/disease reasons for it.

It's funny how that doesn't come across as how it's written when the RSM says "no magnums will be worn".
Adsum

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #722 on: February 27, 2009, 09:26:32 »
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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #723 on: February 27, 2009, 09:30:20 »
I will quote the text word for word to avoid any misinterpretations on my translation:

Il nous a MAINTENANT été interdit par Ottawa (DSCO 2-5-3 Clothing Policy and Procedures) de permettre aux militaires de porter d'autres bottes que celles fournies par le Quartier Maitre, meme si ceci était aux frais du militaire.  (ex. Danners, Magnum).

My read on this is, if the QM gave me the boots then I am good to go.

How does that work for class A reservists who are responsible for the purchase of their own LPO footwear?

I brought up the contradictions in this policy to my CoC the other day - I still wear MkIII's but there are other guys who had boot chits and are now forced into GP boots - the response was basically "There's nothing any of us can do about it, it's too far above our level, so wear the new boots and soldier on." Something is wrong here...

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)
« Reply #724 on: February 27, 2009, 09:33:44 »
How does that work for class A reservists who are responsible for the purchase of their own LPO footwear?

I brought up the contradictions in this policy to my CoC the other day - I still wear MkIII's but there are other guys who had boot chits and are now forced into GP boots - the response was basically "There's nothing any of us can do about it, it's too far above our level, so wear the new boots and soldier on." Something is wrong here...

It may boiled down to a matter of timing.  When was 'said' chit issued?  Did the CF come out with an improved boot after the chit was issued?  How long is the chit good for?  I had a chit for Vibram soles (on my two new pair of Mk III's through Base Clothing) and orthotic inserts while in Petawawa.  Now that is no longer on my docs.  Was it "Time sensitive"? 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 09:41:40 by George Wallace »
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