Author Topic: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]  (Read 160543 times)

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #400 on: December 04, 2018, 23:17:21 »
I don't even see the space for a SSI so that people can immediately discount ideas based on the colour of a random patch.

It's definitely there.  She probably doesn't have the sea days for it yet.

Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Furniture

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #401 on: December 05, 2018, 01:22:42 »
The anchor beside the name wasn't enough? Are we wearing operational uniforms for civilians to know who we are, or are we wearing them as operational attire designed not for fashion but function?

I'm actually surprised that the RCN didn't try to get the rank velcro changed from Canada to RCN. There definitely needs to be more flair on there. I don't even see the space for a SSI so that people can immediately discount ideas based on the colour of a random patch. Or maybe I'm just jealous I haven't qualified for my golden Tent Service Insignia (TSI) for consecutive days living in the field doing my job...

Says someone that wears an "army" uniform, and has likely never been misidentified as anything else.

EDIT: I've had an epiphany, lets get rid of attendance medals too! What does 1-12 months in Kandahar qualify you to opine on anyway? You're no better than anyone else, why does some ribbon and tin make you special?

The SSI simply tells the story of how many days one has spent at sea, the rank and the deportment tell the rest of the story. Perhaps the CAF should abandon all forms of identifier(rank and otherwise), and just assume that someone will know all they need to know by the cut of one's hair and the level of polish on ones boots(unless they are army, and have bought their own). If someone wants a prettier SSI, sail...

Just like earlier in this thread, the people that seem to take issue with the new badges, and uniform pattern are the people that will never wear it.
+300 « Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 01:34:39 by Furniture »

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #402 on: December 05, 2018, 05:28:09 »
Says someone that wears an "army" uniform, and has likely never been misidentified as anything else.

EDIT: I've had an epiphany, lets get rid of attendance medals too! What does 1-12 months in Kandahar qualify you to opine on anyway? You're no better than anyone else, why does some ribbon and tin make you special?

The SSI simply tells the story of how many days one has spent at sea, the rank and the deportment tell the rest of the story. Perhaps the CAF should abandon all forms of identifier(rank and otherwise), and just assume that someone will know all they need to know by the cut of one's hair and the level of polish on ones boots(unless they are army, and have bought their own). If someone wants a prettier SSI, sail...

Just like earlier in this thread, the people that seem to take issue with the new badges, and uniform pattern are the people that will never wear it.

Yes Puckchaser has been very critical of our new NCD's and before that the SSI. It must be jealousy like he said I guess. If you want a trip on HMCS SUMMERSIDE in Dec crossing the Atlantic to really see why we have an SSI that can be arranged.
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #403 on: December 05, 2018, 08:04:55 »
It must be jealousy ...
If you want to talk jealousy, imagine CPO1 Vigneault...every day seeing that blank Velcro above his Navy/Marine badge -- not even an escargot fork badge, like that guy beside him.  :whistle:



[ Yes, I know who 'that guy' is ]
There’s nothing more maddening than debating someone who doesn’t know history, doesn’t read books, and frames their myopia as virtue. The level of unapologetic conjecture I’ve encountered lately isn’t just frustrating, it’s retrogressive, unprecedented, and absolutely terrifying.
~Chris Evans

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #404 on: December 05, 2018, 08:06:47 »
Quite right, Chief!

I have always found that if there is one element in the CAF that has no business commenting on every one else's bling, it's the Army - with its ten thousand badges telling the world every one they work for from the Division down to their platoon section, and every minor qualification they hold, not to mention indecipherable acronyms that are only clear to those in on the joke, etc. etc.  :nod:

Anyway, perhaps Army (or RCAF) people would be much less critical of the Navy's use of CANADA flashers on their uniform if they understood what it historically represents for us and the battle it was to gain a Canadian identity - which this flasher is a big part of. Wearing Canada flashers on our otherwise British looking uniforms and adorning our funnels with a originally green maple leaf were the two first actions taken by a young RCN as a demonstration of its independence from the rest of the empire's fleet. And those action were often fought tooth and nail by way too British senior officers of the RCN. It had to be fought as one recrimination (amongst many) of too much Britishness in various mutinies shortly after the war, with at least one Admiral saying that those flashers sullied the uniform's beauty and he rather have CANADA sown on his pants than ever wear them (as if it was his decision).

So yes, we like our CANADA flashers in the Navy. They are part of our identity. Period.
 

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #405 on: December 05, 2018, 08:14:46 »
PMedMoe, don’t mistake a slovenly, air force-sequel push halfway up the forearm with an ironed, creased, formal partial-roll of coolness... ;D

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #406 on: December 05, 2018, 09:00:57 »
If you want to talk jealousy, imagine CPO1 Vigneault...every day seeing that blank Velcro above his Navy/Marine badge -- not even an escargot fork badge, like that guy beside him.  :whistle:



[ Yes, I know who 'that guy' is ]

The "escargot fork badge" as you call it was on the old NCD's for years, its not a new thing.....and not a easy thing to qualify for BTW.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #407 on: December 05, 2018, 09:03:07 »
I don't know...is the SSI really any different from the trade badge and levels on the Army DEU?  RCAF trade badges don't change between QL3 and QL6...why does the Army feel to the need to use the crown and laurels "just because someone passed a course/did their job".  Or, how about the Marksmanship badges...you lucked out and shot some paper targets well one year.

 :stirpot:

« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 09:07:28 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #408 on: December 05, 2018, 09:30:11 »
.....and not a easy thing to qualify for BTW.
Naval costuming is clearly out of my lane, so I'll back away.

But while you're Googling "humour,"  I'll just note that my basic dive course was run in February;  because we weren't Navy, we didn't 'earn' the right to wear gloves until the final day -- we suggested that the PO have sexual experience with himself.  When I went back for the Dive Supervisor course, it was much less anal.  All that to say, I'm quite aware of how many courses are inherently difficult.... and how many are simply made difficult due to penis size.

:salute:


* Mind you, morning PT was actually motivational as we were all in better shape than the Clearance Diver LS "leading" the morning runs.  I still have happy memories of him having us run up and down hills or stairs while he had to catch his breath.  Simple pleasures.
There’s nothing more maddening than debating someone who doesn’t know history, doesn’t read books, and frames their myopia as virtue. The level of unapologetic conjecture I’ve encountered lately isn’t just frustrating, it’s retrogressive, unprecedented, and absolutely terrifying.
~Chris Evans

Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #409 on: December 05, 2018, 09:34:53 »
Naval costuming is clearly out of my lane, so I'll back away.

But while you're Googling "humour,"  I'll just note that my basic dive course was run in February;  because we weren't Navy, we didn't 'earn' the right to wear gloves until the final day -- we suggested that the PO have sexual experience with himself.  When I went back for the Dive Supervisor course, it was much less anal.  All that to say, I'm quite aware of how many courses are inherently difficult.... and how many are simply made difficult due to penis size.

:salute:


* Mind you, morning PT was actually motivational as we were all in better shape than the Clearance Diver LS "leading" the morning runs.  I still have happy memories of him having us run up and down hills or stairs while he had to catch his breath.  Simple pleasures.

And you probably did it with a smoke in your mouth... :stirpot: ;D
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #410 on: December 05, 2018, 09:36:31 »
They can stay there as far as I'm concerned, no need to wear them in air conditioned offices ashore!

If the RCN can make that happen, maybe they'll avoid the issue the RCAF has with flying suits.  Despite the orders saying 'shall only be worn by those in a flying position', that doesn't happen and it certainly doesn't help it when anyone who 'just wants to' can put one on because they are in a senior position. 

It is especially grating when you and the people who work for you can't get flying suits for...you know...actual flying duties and you see others, who shouldn't be in the flight suit in the first place, wearing one "in the office".

But hey...you know, Dress Reg only apply to NCMs, Senior and Junior Officers I guess.  Meanwhile, aircrew who have tan flying suits issued to them are authorized to wear them now, on Wings because of the clusterfuck that has been happening with the flying suit contract (or lack of one)

#LeadByExample?

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #411 on: December 05, 2018, 09:39:21 »
Naval costuming is clearly out of my lane, so I'll back away.

But while you're Googling "humour,"  I'll just note that my basic dive course was run in February;  because we weren't Navy, we didn't 'earn' the right to wear gloves until the final day -- we suggested that the PO have sexual experience with himself.  When I went back for the Dive Supervisor course, it was much less anal.  All that to say, I'm quite aware of how many courses are inherently difficult.... and how many are simply made difficult due to penis size.

:salute:


* Mind you, morning PT was actually motivational as we were all in better shape than the Clearance Diver LS "leading" the morning runs.  I still have happy memories of him having us run up and down hills or stairs while he had to catch his breath.  Simple pleasures.

Good for you and your experience doing your scuba course, builds character being gloveless in Feb. Nice anecdote about the LS Clearance diver as well.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 10:11:04 by Chief Engineer »
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline MARS

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #412 on: December 05, 2018, 11:57:47 »

  because we weren't Navy, we didn't 'earn' the right to wear gloves until the final day

Bah,  I just put my hands in my pockets.  Used to drive my Coxswain apoplectic.  ;D  It helped (me, that is) that I was the ship's CO...which made him even crazier.  It was indeed good to be king
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #413 on: December 05, 2018, 12:40:20 »
Originally I didn't really like the new NCDs.  Having seen them around for a while know I have warmed up to them and look forward to wearing them.

IMHO the SSI is silly, it truly is a "I did the job I am paid for" badge.  Are some medals the same, yup 100%.  Either way neither is going away because of my personal feeling. 

Having said the above; and have having time both in the RCN and Army, I have come a couple of conclusions which I tell anyone if the ask what my thoughts are on both environments.  Never once in my time in Army or with the Army in AFG did I ever wake up and questions my life's choices; almost every day I wake up at sea I question my life's choices and where I went wrong. 

Journeyman, when did you do you dive course ?  And which dive course was it ?  There are a few different courses that are run at the FDU's.  Seeing as I just completed 2 years at FDU(A) I would be really interested to see the meat behind your anecdotally laced post.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 14:27:07 by Halifax Tar »
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Offline MARS

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #414 on: December 05, 2018, 13:31:41 »
Journeyman, when did you do you dive course ?  And which dive course was it ?  There are a few different courses that are run at the FDU's.  Seeing as I just completed 2 years at FDU(A) I would be really interested to see the meat behind your anecdotally laced post.

 :rofl:
Knowing JM in real life, I would love nothing more than to see his response publicly posted on this board.  It would be, without a doubt,  the most epic thing I have read all year.  :nod:

Knowing JM in real life, I have no doubt that it will be handled via PM with the class and grace appropriate to someone of his experience.  :nod:
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #415 on: December 05, 2018, 14:24:35 »
If the RCN can make that happen, maybe they'll avoid the issue the RCAF has with flying suits.  Despite the orders saying 'shall only be worn by those in a flying position', that doesn't happen and it certainly doesn't help it when anyone who 'just wants to' can put one on because they are in a senior position. 

Wait what? You mean the 2Lt Pilot, pre-PFT, who was working as an admin clerk in my orderly room wasn't suppose to be wearing a flight suit?
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #416 on: December 05, 2018, 14:26:16 »
:rofl:
Knowing JM in real life, I would love nothing more than to see his response publicly posted on this board.  It would be, without a doubt,  the most epic thing I have read all year.  :nod:

Knowing JM in real life, I have no doubt that it will be handled via PM with the class and grace appropriate to someone of his experience.  :nod:

Why ?  What exactly did I say that was so inflammatory ? 
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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #417 on: December 05, 2018, 15:48:55 »
IMO if the RCN want to add patches, badges or whatever, I say good for them. If they can recruit more people because of it, even better. Some young kid will probably see the uniform and might be the trigger for joining the Navy. Who knows?
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Offline MARS

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #418 on: December 05, 2018, 16:45:30 »
Why ?  What exactly did I say that was so inflammatory ?

Nothing at all inflammatory, HT.   ;D  Apologies that it sounded that way.  I am simply privy to 'some' of what I would consider to be JM's very storied career.  He is certainly too humble and professional to go into the details on this net, but I stand by my assertion that it is indeed 'epic'.

I will now retire from this thread.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #419 on: December 06, 2018, 01:32:41 »
Bah,  I just put my hands in my pockets.  Used to drive my Coxswain apoplectic.  ;D  It helped (me, that is) that I was the ship's CO...which made him even crazier.  It was indeed good to be king

MARS, were you peeking at the RCAF’s “Touque, gloves, pockets” flowchart, by any chance? ;D

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #420 on: December 06, 2018, 09:05:41 »
Got exiled to Ottawa as these were rolled out so curious; what do people were when doing maintenance now?  Can't see any of that flair lasting very long if you are crawling around a diesel or whatnot.

I'm hoping common sense prevails and the naval ensign and other badges that are velcroed on aren't worn at sea.

Also, are these still nomex?

The old ones hang off you like an ugly blind date, but did create some good insulating air pockets if you did get caught in a flash fire.  If that's not really a concern, then my next question would be why bother with the (non-fire rated) flash gear.  :stirpot:

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #421 on: December 06, 2018, 09:30:01 »
Got exiled to Ottawa as these were rolled out so curious; what do people were when doing maintenance now?  Can't see any of that flair lasting very long if you are crawling around a diesel or whatnot.

I'm hoping common sense prevails and the naval ensign and other badges that are velcroed on aren't worn at sea.

Also, are these still nomex?

The old ones hang off you like an ugly blind date, but did create some good insulating air pockets if you did get caught in a flash fire.  If that's not really a concern, then my next question would be why bother with the (non-fire rated) flash gear.  :stirpot:

I would imagine they would wear coveralls for the dirtier jobs and the flairs been around for some time now. Yes the badges are worn at sea.  The new combats are fire rated, in fact the new fleece weather jacket liner can act as a second layer as its fire rated as well.



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Offline stoker dave

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #422 on: December 07, 2018, 15:45:19 »
While it has been some decades since I was last at sea, I am currently working at a big industrial site where all staff have to wear special, protective clothing as part of the safety procedures.  I will point out there are ZERO exceptions for visiting big-wigs.  Everyone wears the same gear. 

My memory of NCDs is that they were ugly, poorly fitting and ill suited from a safety point of view. 

If these new clothes are less ugly, fit better and provide some improvements in worker safety, and no one is embarrassed to be seen wearing them, then this is a huge step forward. 

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #423 on: December 07, 2018, 23:44:36 »
Actually, Stoker Dave, the NCD were a huge (pronounced "à la Trump!") improvement over their predecessor: The CAF all-polyester work/garrison dress.

However, I am in full agreement that the requirements for a Naval Combat Dress are, in order of importance:

1) Does it protect from known personnel safety risks;
2) Is it easy to maintain; and,
3) is it comfortable to wear.

The good looking part is just a bonus if it can be fitted in there somehow.

I only have one small qualm with the most recent incarnation of the NCD: Navy blue like that, how friggin hot is it going to be if you have to work on deck for a while in Tropical or Equatorial waters?

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #424 on: December 08, 2018, 00:16:20 »
It's definitely there.  She probably doesn't have the sea days for it yet.



I'm impressed by the font size on that hat. I can only assume that it has something to do with making sure that the Admiral isn't accidentally assumed to be a General (while wrapped in a ship sailing 500 miles offshore) ;)
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