Author Topic: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged  (Read 132677 times)

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Offline Lumber

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Re: Class
« Reply #275 on: May 03, 2017, 09:40:00 »
I'm going to add a twist on thing.

Reserve "Period of Service" (POS) are supposed to include travel, employment, and leave. However, the reality is that they do not. Ever since we started modularizing training, especially in the reserves, our HQs have been unable to build these into a member' POS, because it's just to difficult for them to coordinate. From the same unit, you could have 12 ppl attending Mods 1 and 2, 7 of those will stay on for Mod 3, and of those only 2 will stay on for Mod 4. Instead of building travel, leave and employment, the official messages include ONLY the employment period. The way that members get paid for travel and leave (including Special Relocation) is simply by making sure that the route letter incorporates these dates. The loading messages literally say:

Quote
A. ROUTE LETTER TO INCLUDE LVE/TRAVEL ENTITLEMENT B. IAW REF, EFF 1 FEB 14 NRD CO HAS THE DISCRETIONAL AUTHORITY TO GRANT SPECIAL LEAVE (RELOCATION) TO THE MOS QUALIFIED PERS EMPLOYED FOR MORE THAN 30 CONSECUTIVE DAYS AWAY FROM THEIR HOME UNIT. NRD CO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO AMEND THE ROUTE LETTER (CF 899) IF SPECIAL LEAVE (RELOCATION) IS GRANTED BEFORE AND AFTER THE COURSE

There is no expectation that once we've developed a travel/leave plan that we will request an amended tasking message.

So, if the issued message has a reserve POS that does not include leave and travel, then it is up to us to build it for them. In regards to this, I know the following to be true:

1. That leave can be taken before it is earned;
2. That leave cannot be taken during a course, unless specifically built into the schedule (which, in most cases, it is NOT);
3. That There is no rule that you can't take leave before a course/tasking (see number 1);
4. That Annual Leave can't be taken on a weekend; and
5. That you can travel on a weekend (most of our taskings involve travelling on a weekend).

So, given these things, could we not build a POS that includes annual leave both at the begging and the end of the course, and then allow the member to take POMV?

I'll give an example. Member has been loaded on 3 consecutive MODs of a trades course. The official messages only list the actual dates of the courses, which all start on Mondays and end on Fridays. His courses total 2.5 months in length, so he will earn 5 days of annual leave. The distance to the trg school is 1100km, so he would need 2 days to drive by POMV. So, since we are building his overall POS, we build a travel/leave plan whereby he takes 1 day of Annual leave on the Friday before his courses starts, and the remaining 4 on the Monday-Thursday immediately following his course. His official travel days become the Thursday before his course (with the second travel day being Friday, the annual day).

Wouldn't this work?


Edit: What been happening lately, and I'm not sure it's correct or not, so if you have a reference to explain please provide, but when a member is removed from course, they are being employed Class-B at there home unit for as long as they would have been had they been on course. This has been done for those who were removed from course medically, as well as for academic failure. I really would have thought that if you failed academics and were RTU'd, that you'd lose the rest of your contract. We queried the member's Career Manager, and they said nope, employ him at your unit until the end of his POS.

The reason this is important is that, in my example above, he's guaranteed to earn the leave he needs to drive back, since he will get employment for 2.5 months whether he is successful or not.

Again, I think there is something wrong with this, but I could not find a reference one way or the other, and his Career Manager said to employ him at the unit.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 10:03:21 by Lumber »
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Offline Log Offr

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Re: TD Vehicle rental and insurance
« Reply #276 on: July 22, 2017, 19:07:51 »
I have NEVER received a straight answer on this one. Ever. Including from a Navy Comptroller (as in, the Navy Comptroller). On my 2017 posting Brookfield went out of their way to make sure I understood that insurance on rental cars would not be paid. It was my responsibility to be insured myself and they would not honour any insurance charges. WTF??  I've been at units where it was covered and units where it was not. The posted link, above, seems pretty clear. But application of it is allllllllll over the map.

Offline ballz

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Re: TD Vehicle rental and insurance
« Reply #277 on: July 22, 2017, 22:41:39 »
CAF TD Instruction  http://www.forces.gc.ca/assets/FORCES_Internet/docs/en/caf-community-benefits/cftdti-ifcvst.pdf

(4) (Rental Vehicles — IDTC Policies) Before
using an IDTC to rent a vehicle on duty travel, a
member shall review ADM (Fin CS) policies and
procedures in respect of IDTC vehicle insurance.

(5) (Rental Vehicles — Private Insurance) A
member who is authorized to rent a vehicle on duty
travel should always review their private insurance
coverage with their private insurer before renting
the vehicle.

(6) (Rental Vehicles — Collision damage waiver
(CDW)) A member who is authorized to rent a
vehicle on duty travel and:

(a) who uses an IDTC to rent the vehicle shall
not purchase CDW (because the IDTC
provides CDW coverage); and

(b) who does not use an IDTC to rent the
vehicle shall purchase CDW

(7) (Rental Vehicles — Public Liability and
Property Damage (PL/PD)) A member who is
authorized to rent a vehicle on duty travel and

(a) who rents the vehicle from a rental agency
that is listed in the PWGSC
and Car Rental Directory as amended from
time to time, shall not purchase PL/PD
(because the listing includes PL/PD); and

(b) who rents the vehicle from a non-listed
rental agency shall purchase PL/PD.

What is an IDTC?
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: TD Vehicle rental and insurance
« Reply #278 on: July 22, 2017, 22:58:22 »
Individual Departmental Travel Card.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline ballz

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Re: TD Vehicle rental and insurance
« Reply #279 on: July 23, 2017, 00:46:30 »
So if I read all of that correctly, all of us that don't have/use one of those things, like myself who just finished my HHT and paid for the rental with my Visa and will be reimbursed for it, are supposed to (not optional) purchase the CDW they offer (which would be reimbursed since we are clearly being ordered to do so).

And CDW (Collision Damage Waiver) = the extra insurance that they always ask you if you want to purchase?

And a sidebar... but is an HHT considered "Temporary Duty?"





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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: TD Vehicle rental and insurance
« Reply #280 on: July 23, 2017, 10:56:32 »
Thanks for the reference; I get varying answers on whether or not the insurance is covered.  I tend to go with enterprise as their insurance rate I was getting was $5 or $10 per day, which I figured was at least covered under the 'incidentals' so never worried about it.

Does this mean if you do have a department card for a rental there is insurance coverage on the card?

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: TD Vehicle rental and insurance
« Reply #281 on: July 23, 2017, 11:00:54 »
Thanks for the reference; I get varying answers on whether or not the insurance is covered.  I tend to go with enterprise as their insurance rate I was getting was $5 or $10 per day, which I figured was at least covered under the 'incidentals' so never worried about it.

Does this mean if you do have a department card for a rental there is insurance coverage on the card?

HHT and move-related travels are administered with the IRP policy.  In any case (TD or HHT), at least CDW plus any mandatory insurances are reimbursed.  Note that liability insurance and personnal effects insurance are not covered.

I never had issues getting CDW reimbursed.

Offline danteh

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #282 on: October 28, 2017, 17:52:47 »
Where can I find the current incidental rates (ie the ~$17 a day for the first 30 days than like $14 per day on ward)? I used to be able to google CF TD incidental rates and it would be like the first one to pop up but I have having a hella hard time finding it now.

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #283 on: October 28, 2017, 18:07:38 »
ref: CFTDI Appendix C

$17.30 per day IAW CFTDI and pre-programed into the Claims-X software the HR Administrators must use.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #284 on: October 30, 2017, 09:55:54 »
When did it become a must use?  Didn't see that one anywhere and the DND99 is still available in the forms catalogue.

try this link to NJC for the rates:  https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/s3/en

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Offline SJBeaton

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #285 on: November 01, 2017, 09:51:17 »
When did it become a must use?  Didn't see that one anywhere and the DND99 is still available in the forms catalogue.

try this link to NJC for the rates:  https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/s3/en

It's not a "must use". Furthermore, I believe since the trade split, DND 99s and ClaimsX claims/MTECs are a couple of the very few claim types that should be both initiated and finalized by FSA, not HRA.

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #286 on: November 01, 2017, 15:47:42 »
“Seventy-five percent (75%) of the meal and incidental allowances shall be paid starting on the 31st consecutive calendar day and fifty percent (50%) of the meal allowance on the 121st consecutive calendar day of travel status at the same location when corporate residences or apartment hotels are available to a traveller in the area surrounding the workplace, or when the traveller chooses to stay in private accommodation

It’s not automatic that the 75% reduction occurs.  If you are in a location that doesn’t have corporate residences or apartment hotels, then you should receive 100% the entire time.


Offline CountDC

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #287 on: November 03, 2017, 15:30:13 »
It's not a "must use". Furthermore, I believe since the trade split, DND 99s and ClaimsX claims/MTECs are a couple of the very few claim types that should be both initiated and finalized by FSA, not HRA.

Not quite.  Claims are mainly FSA now, HRA has little to do with them.
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Offline Mongo007

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #288 on: November 06, 2017, 11:12:22 »
Hello everyone,

I will be going on TD and the start date in on a Tuesday. I will need to travel just over 1200KM and I will be requesting to use my PMV.

According to the CFTDTI 7.41(5) "5.(Paid Leave) A member who requests to use a PMV - rather than the more economical and practical mode of transportation selected by the approving authority - and who uses that PMV on duty travel shall take one day’s paid leave, after the first day, for every 500 kilometres travelled. "

My first question is does this mean that 7.41(5) does not require me to take a paid day of leave for the first day of travel but any following days would require paid leave. 1200 KM would require 3 days of travel so would I get the first day as a travel day and then require 2 days of annual for the remaining 2 days?

My second question is that I will be leaving on a Saturday to make it for a Tuesday course. My first travel day is on a weekend will I be able to move that first travel day to the Monday so I would not have to take a day of leave?

Thanks for your help.




« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 11:33:11 by Mongo007 »

Offline CountDC

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #289 on: November 06, 2017, 11:22:48 »
short answer - no.  As you quoted - shall take one day's paid leave, after the first day. 

You have to have at least one day of paid leave.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #290 on: November 06, 2017, 13:45:44 »
I disagree.  Keep in mind that weekend and short leave is "paid leave."  If the first day of travel is a "duty" day, it is perfectly legitimate to consider the Monday a short day.  Hence, no annual leave need be expended.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #291 on: November 06, 2017, 14:21:59 »
Weekend is not leave, it is schedule days off.

Feel free to disagree with the Ottawa gods as that is the policy they have pushed out and have done so since 2012.  Even now on their CFTDI Faq they refer to annual:

I am currently posted to Vancouver, can I take my PMV if I need to go to Borden on course even if they are 4,296 Km apart?
Maybe. You will need to sign both the Annex A Member Request To Use PMV Acknowledgment of Limitations for the PMV Waiver and the DCBA waiver and cost comparison worksheet when your intent is to request use of your PMV rather than a more economical and practical mode of transportation. You will be entitled to only the first day of travel to the destination (500 kilometres) and only for the first day of travel of return travel (500 kilometres) kilometric rate for the direct road and this would include any distance traveled by ferry. You will also be required to utilize sufficient paid leave for each additional day of travel over 500 kilometres (duty travel day). In the interest of safe driving, you are required to take 8 paid leave days each way, in addition to the one day of duty travel each way. If you don't have sufficient annual leave remaining, the CO has no choice but to deny PMV travel, in favour of the most economical and practical method of transportation (in this case, commercial air travel). PMV is not considered the most economical and practical method of transportation, except where the CO requests the use of PMV, IAW the CFTDTI.
NOTE: The Crown accepts no responsibility or liability to the member for, the loss of or damage to a PMV on duty travel and deductible insurance payments in respect of a PMV used on duty travel. As such, a member cannot be ordered and is never obliged to use a PMV for duty travel.
Refs: CFTDTI 4.12, CFTDTI 7.40 & CFTDTI 7.41 Acknowledge of limitation (Annex A waiver) and cost comparison worksheet

and in email from C Army DLPM/G1 Jul 2012

It should also be noted that the type of leave to be utilized is annual leave even if the travel occurs on a weekend.

One of the problems is that the leave manual itself does not have a definition for paid leave and the CFTDI only refers to paid leave.  They need to amend something to make it clear what they are referring to.  Why say paid leave in the instruction if you mean annual.  They have had 5 years to correct this and are aware of the issue as people have been asking since the instruction came out.  Think they would get tired of answering the same question over and over and actually fix the wording so people don't have to ask.  Too easy to specify types of leave clearly.   
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #292 on: November 06, 2017, 16:46:24 »
I would argue that an email from C Army DLPM/G1 does not constitute a proper authority in this case.  It's essentially reading something into a policy that isn't there.  It may be what somebody thinks it should be, but that's not what the CFTDI says.

Paid leave is simply leave when the member is being paid and includes just about all types of leave, except leave without pay.  The CFTDI describes it this way in order to avoid having to list the multitude of different forms of paid leave.  To insist on annual leave in this case is ridiculous.  I interpret the line about having sufficient annual leave remaining is to cover those periods for which there are no other forms of paid leave available.  If after all other legitimate forms of leave have been taken and the member still requires annual leave to cover the portion remaining and he doesn't have it, then he may be SOL.

In a more precise example, if a member is required to report for duty on 2 Jan 18 and he requires nine days to drive the distance (as per the max daily driving allowance) then (assuming the first day is duty), his eight days of paid leave could legitimately accounted for as follows:

25-26 Dec 17 - 2 days Stat
27-28 Dec 17 - 2 days Special (everybody gets that)
29 Dec 17 - 1 day short (the current practice is that everybody gets that as well)
30-31 Dec 17 - 2 days Weekend
1 Jan 18 - 1 day Stat

This all adds up to eight days of paid leave, not one of them being Annual Leave, and IAW the CFTDI, acceptable. 

On a similar note, this issue has come up from time to time with respect to other benefits that also require "paid leave" to be utilized and in each case, the ruling that came back was that paid leave included any type of leave where the member was being paid and was certainly not restricted to annual leave.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #293 on: November 06, 2017, 16:56:16 »
Weekend leave is not paid leave?  I am pretty sure I have *X* amount of weekend leave days on my Xmas leave pass...or my summer one.

Here's what I think;  the policy that states PAID LEAVE was written exactly as that, and people were using weekend leave, or getting short leave etc to cover duty travel on weekend days because that it what the policy was intended for; paid leave including but not limited to Ann Leave.  Then some fucksticks got into the fold and decided PAID LEAVE must mean ANNUAL LEAVE, because god forbid if mbr's actually wanted to take their PMV with them on a long course or something, so let's make this as much of an asspain as possible.    ;D

I've used and know others who've used Weekend or Short leave travelling with their PMV. 

Worst case scenario, don't ask for any cash, tell them you don't need service travel to the location (its only 1300km) and that you will report as specified in your JIs, take Monday as an Annual and Sat/Sun as weekend.  Voila. 

Be interesting to see what the EMGRC would make of this PAID LEAVE discussion WRT to travel.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #294 on: November 06, 2017, 20:15:43 »
1.1.19 Paid Service

Paid Service means all service except:

periods of Leave Without Pay and Allowances (LWOP) other than LWOP for maternity and parental purposes;
periods when a Primary Reserve reservist has an Exemption From Duty and Training (ED&T) other than ED&T for maternity or parental purposes;
periods when a Primary Reserve reservist is Non Effective Strength (NES);
service for which a limitation of Payments (LOP) has been imposed under QR&O 203.20, Regular Force - Limitation of Payments; or
periods for which forfeiture has been imposed under QR&O 208.30, Forfeitures - Officers and Non-Commissioned Members, or QR&O 208.31, Forfeitures, Deductions and Cancellations -When No Service Rendered.

Leave taken outside of those are, by my interpretation, paid leave as it would be paid service.  This incluses weekends.

Turns out weekend leave doesn't exists so you cannot travel on a cost comparison during weekends, unless it is a Short day.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 21:20:10 by SupersonicMax »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #295 on: November 06, 2017, 21:42:52 »
Weekend Leave doesn't exist.  How do I have Weekend Leave days x 6 for Christmas Leave this year then?  When I am off for 2 weeks in the summer...the days between my Annual Days are always...Weekend Leave.

 ???

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap2

2.1.04 Weekends and Holidays

Weekends and Holidays are included on Form CF 100 when they form part of a leave period in conjunction with other types of leave that are reckoned in working days.

Section 2.2 Reckoning Time
2.2.01 Reckoning time
Except in the case of short leave, leave begins at 0000 hours on the commencement date and ends at 2400 hours on the last day of leave.
Weekends, designated and other holidays (listed in Annex A of this chapter), or in the case of shift workers’ scheduled non-working days (designated as weekends on the CF 100), shall not be charged against any leave that is granted in working days; although, such days will normally form part of the leave period.

If I am Reg Force, and I am not 'on duty' for a weekend, and have other leave, the CF100 shows weekend leave days.  I've never seen it done otherwise OR I'd need two separate leave passes for my summer block leave.  As it stands, I always have 6 x Weekend days on my LEAVE PASS.  Days on a leave pass are 'leave days' are they not?  So weekend leave days would be paid leave.

 :dunno:
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 21:50:47 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #296 on: November 06, 2017, 22:11:29 »
Leave is defined in the QR&Os

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-16.page

Noticed that weekend isn't there.

Your quote doesn't define that weekend is leave.  It says that IF weekend is part of the leave period to include the weekend on the leave pass.

Offline CountDC

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #297 on: November 06, 2017, 22:26:37 »
beat to it.  Weekend is just that, showing it on the leave pass enables you to show the entire period you are off.  It also has the benefit that as it is on your leave pass then the only one that could call you in during the period is the CO as it is now part of your approved leave period.  Same with stats - they are not leave.

Your arguments are with the policy gods in Ottawa.  Both offices I have quoted are there.  I also attended two briefings in 2012 that were held by DCBA in which they also stated it had to be annual leave.  There have been other emails on the subject over the years that all have stated the same things and were issued as policy clarifications.   

That is why I stated they need to better clarify what is paid leave as there really isn't anything that specifically addresses it and since the CFTDI was issued it has been an ongoing problem.  Shouldn't be that hard to add a definition in there or if they actually mean annual then change the word paid to annual.  Shouldn't have to search through numerous different pubs or policy ruling to get such a simple thing that could and should be built in.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #298 on: November 06, 2017, 22:55:20 »
I am pretty sure that Special or Short is indeed paid leave as well.

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #299 on: November 07, 2017, 05:45:04 »
If it’s annual leave then they need to make the change to reflect that.

Paid leave is ******* simple.  It is all types of leave with the exception of LWOP.

We don’t need a dentition for something that requires a basic amount of common sense.

Personally I am fed up with orderly rooms interpreting rules and regs when 99% of the time they are clear.

Why the frig would someone have to take an annual?  It is because some ******* wrongly interpreted the rule years ago?  Is it to make the process so unfavourable to the member that they will most likely never choose to take their PMV?