Author Topic: CH-148 Cyclone Progress  (Read 537410 times)

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Offline volition

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2007, 08:10:48 »
+2 ;D
« Last Edit: August 08, 2007, 15:08:39 by volition »
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Offline Trunk Monkey

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2007, 00:19:50 »
+3 on that...and tacco, sure you can justify it. I'd love to see those on yours and our birds, just a tad more fun than the C6 I would think. I know I find the C6 ho hum.....time for something with more "pizazz".

Offline IN HOC SIGNO

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2007, 05:44:26 »
But is there any news on when we're getting the first airframe??

Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2007, 06:43:57 »
The fly by wire test aircraft, 592, has done ground runs without the blades.  It should do ground runs with blades on in late August, and first flight in late September.

Our first airframe, 148801, was delivered to West Palm Beach from Keystone Helicopter last Fir, 10 Aug, for final assembly.  It should be flying by the end of the year, for test purposes.  It will be used spring and summer '08 for at sea flight deck testing on HMCS Montreal, which is currently being modified, but will not have been delivered to Canada at that time.

Scheduled delivery of the first aircraft is still January 2009, when Operational Testing will commence.  The first aircrew conversion course, leading to the first Cyclone detachment, is scheduled for 2010.

Offline geo

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2007, 08:01:12 »
Baz,
Any idea on what kind of mods are required for the ships ?
Chimo!

Offline George Wallace

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2007, 08:55:28 »
The hangars and hangar deck would probably be the major ones.  Didn't someone also mention the 'Bear Traps' in a previous post?
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Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2007, 12:08:17 »
I had posted this info before (in a thread about whether it fits in the hangar, it does), but here it is again with a couple of edits:
- replace the trap with a new low profile trap, and add a nose wheel tray, including a new console for the LSO
- add a flight deck motion display
- move the tail guide winches forward and remove the tail probe fish tail
- redo the line up lines
- change the lighting for NVG compatibility
- offset the aircraft about 18"left when trapped and aligned, by moving the lock position in the trap to the left, because of the tail fold to the right extends past the sponson
- redo a bunch of cranes, servicing platforms, etc, in the hangar; the new storage is mostly modular in the hangar
- a bunch of new cabinets, computers, displays, etc in the air spaces, the largest piece is for the Integrated Technical Information Service and the Mission Planning and Analysis Service (MPAS).  MPAS gets information from certain ship system.  Both services uses comms links back to shore for other types of info.

I need to get over to the ship to have a look  :)


Offline geo

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2007, 12:56:18 »
somehow, I get this uneasy feeling that this is going to be an expensive refit....
Chimo!

Offline Bograt

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2007, 13:41:26 »
Any new on what their plans are for pipeliners? Are they shutting down the OTU for Sea Kings, and what are they going to do for new pipeliners.  I can't imagine that they won't be taking anyone into the MH community for the next 1-2 years.

I am looking at BHS in April- hoping to get into the community. Any news or gossip?
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Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2007, 15:21:19 »
I'm not going to pass on gossip, I spend enough time working on how to ensure that the right information is getting out  :)

According to the current schedule, the last Sea King Ab Initio (pipeliner) course will tentatively finish some time late in 2010, with the first Cyclone Ab Initio course sometime mid 2011.  Conversion courses (for already qualified Sea King aircrew) will start after OT&E is finished, scheduled for early 2010, and running until all aircrew are converted.  The schedules are different for maintainers, and this is just the current snapshot of a very complicated schedule.

However, the big point is this: we can't afford to gap Maritime Helicopter aircrew training (between Cyclone and Sea King Ab Initio), which includes having dets at sea.  Flying helicopters at sea is a demanding role and we need to ensure that we keep core skills during the transition.

Offline Inch

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2007, 18:47:17 »
somehow, I get this uneasy feeling that this is going to be an expensive refit....

It's not going to cost us any more than it already has. IIRC, mods to the ships was included in the MHP contract.
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: CH-148 CYCLONE
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2007, 13:13:50 »
    I have a question about the weapons that ch-148 will use. Will they used  mk46v. In will the able to handle anti- shipping missiles.        :cdn:

According to the link provided by G2G, the CH-148 will have two hardpoints that can take up to 1,000 lbs each. So, in theory they should be able to carry ASM's, however, I would think that they would have to have targeting/guidance equipment fitted to the aircraft before they could be used. 
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2007, 13:42:29 »
Here is a link to the CH-148 Cyclone at the Sikorsky webpage:

http://www.sikorsky.com/details/0,,cli1_div69_eti2282,00+en-uss_0fsbc.html

According to this webpage the first Cyclone will be delivered "November 2008."  However, you go to the CF CH-148 webpage it states the first airframe will be delivered in January 2009. The link is here:

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/site/equip/ch148/default_e.asp

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Offline geo

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2007, 17:05:23 »
Not much of a difference in the delivery dates.... Nov 08  - Jan 09
For once, I think they agree
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2007, 20:34:44 »
Quote
According to the link provided by G2G, the CH-148 will have two hardpoints that can take up to 1,000 lbs each. So, in theory they should be able to carry ASM's, however, I would think that they would have to have targeting/guidance equipment fitted to the aircraft before they could be used.

The Cyclone will be delivered fitted for, but not with, an ASM capability.  I'm sure we will get to it in due course...

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2007, 14:21:16 »
The Cyclone will be delivered fitted for, but not with, an ASM capability.  I'm sure we will get to it in due course...

If we do get ASMs for the Cyclone (which I think would be a good thing), where would we keep said ASMs?
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Offline Inch

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2007, 14:25:23 »
If we do get ASMs for the Cyclone (which I think would be a good thing), where would we keep said ASMs?

Probably a modified torpedo locker, but what do I know about storing weapons on ships?
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2007, 16:30:44 »
Thats as good as a place as any...on a CPF they could use one of the torpedo magazines....for the NWTs out there, its pretty unlikely they would store ASMs with torpedoes correct?
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2007, 19:32:14 »
Quote
for the NWTs out there, its pretty unlikely they would store ASMs with torpedoes correct?

Why would it matter, so long as the ammo classes were not incompatible and it was a floodable space?

Offline Hippie

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2007, 18:48:51 »
The fly by wire test aircraft, 592, has done ground runs without the blades.  It should do ground runs with blades on in late August, and first flight in late September.

Our first airframe, 148801, was delivered to West Palm Beach from Keystone Helicopter last Fir, 10 Aug, for final assembly.  It should be flying by the end of the year, for test purposes.  It will be used spring and summer '08 for at sea flight deck testing on HMCS Montreal, which is currently being modified, but will not have been delivered to Canada at that time.

Scheduled delivery of the first aircraft is still January 2009, when Operational Testing will commence.  The first aircrew conversion course, leading to the first Cyclone detachment, is scheduled for 2010.

Baz, do we have any pictures of 801?  I've only seen pictures of our guys climbing around a civie S-92, which is obviously going to be pretty different that our 148s.  It'd be great to actually SEE some actual progress of our first bird.  Pretty isolated from any of the MHP out here on the left coast! 

Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2007, 04:28:01 »
We have some pictures taken by one of the guys camera's as the aircraft arrived.

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Offline newfin

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2007, 22:59:30 »
Are there any pictures around of any of these airframes? We are 1 year from 1st delivery so there must be something that can be shown to the public?
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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2008, 22:51:08 »
Quote
SEA KING REPLACEMENTS ON HOLD

STEVE RENNIE

Canadian Press

January 9, 2008 at 8:56 PM EST

OTTAWA — The delivery of new military helicopters to replace Canada's aging fleet of Sea Kings will likely be delayed by 30 months and Ottawa is threatening to deeply penalize the U.S. contractor “thousands of dollars” for each day the choppers are late, The Canadian Press has learned.

A senior government source, speaking on background, said late Wednesday that department officials told Public Works Minister Michael Fortier on Monday that Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. would be late with the long-awaited delivery of new CH-148 Cyclones.

Sikorsky will be penalized thousands of dollars each day the Cyclones are delayed, the source said.

Calls to Sikorsky were not immediately returned on Wednesday.

The Defence Department referred all calls Wednesday night about the delay to Public Works.

“We are assessing the implications of what a delay on the delivery of the maritime helicopters will have on the operational requirements of DND and PWGSC is considering all possible options with respect to Sikorski's default on the timely delivery of the Maritime Helicopters,” wrote Jacques Gagnon, Mr. Fortier's communications director, in an e-mail to The Canadian Press.

Ottawa signed the contract in November 2004 to replace the 40-year-old Sea King fleet. The deal required Connecticut-based Sikorsky to build 28 helicopters and begin delivering one per month starting in November 2008.

The Defence Department first set out to replace the Sea Kings in the 1980s, and former prime minister Brian Mulroney's Conservative government decided in 1992 to buy 50 EH-101 helicopters in a $5.8-billion deal.

But Jean Chrétien's Liberals tore up the deal when they came to power, paying $500-million in penalties for backing out of the contract.

Retired air force colonel Lee Myrhaugen, a former deputy commander of the military's maritime air group and a veteran Sea King pilot, said the military made every effort to extend the Sea Kings' life cycle and the delay could put further strain on the aging choppers.

“If it's going to be extended some 30-odd months, that's just going to stretch that rubber band that much further,” Mr. Myrhaugen said.

“The bottom line is, you can only stretch that rubber band so far. The calculations for the delivery date of the Cyclone were based on the fact that they had extended the life of the Sea King to its maximum.”

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Offline newfin

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2008, 23:50:27 »
Well, I have to admit that I am surprised.  This contract was issued 3 years ago for delivery in 4 years.  If you add 30 months to that then that means that the first a/c will be 6.5 years from the date the contract was issued.  That's pretty pathetic.  I thought a company like Sikorsky would deliver them in the time that they agreed to.  I will admit that I have been getting concerned since there has been almost no news on these choppers lately and it would have made sense that if the delivry was going to be met that we would have photos and some sort of positive news by now.

The more time that goes by the more I am pissed at Chretien.
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Offline navy-nesop

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2008, 23:58:57 »
The Cyclone will be delivered fitted for, but not with, an ASM capability.  I'm sure we will get to it in due course...

I may be wrong, but I don't think we would be getting ASM capability.  As our navy is more a defensive type navy.  Can't go really deep in details but it would be hard for us to support an Helo doing OTHT.  They would be pretty much alone out there and it's just not the way we do things.

On top, since you would never have our ships alone in a war situation.  We could never make use of any OTHT tactics.  The US navy would take care of that.  ASM capability on helos is an offensive  method, it's just not our purpose.  It would be a waste of money, in my own opinion.

Keep that money to get the army guys some good vehicles so they can get home safe.

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