Author Topic: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)  (Read 10828 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dapaterson

    Halfway to being an idiot-savant.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 511,095
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 17,863
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #150 on: May 17, 2020, 12:31:38 »
Arguably, if we give MH to the RCN and TH to the Army, the Flight Safety function now becomes purple, and would be moved out of RCAF lines to VCDS to oversee all three colours of aviator uniforms.

And given the dogs breakfast of RCAF administered and operated pilot training, that function should be taken away from the RCAF to fix it, regardless of whether MH and TH stay in the RCAF.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Online quadrapiper

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 11,870
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 371
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #151 on: May 17, 2020, 12:59:57 »
[tangent]
Back to the original point though, unless you have a permanent air det with each ship, the crews/techs will still be "sleeping over", just wearing the same clothes as you.
Who've also, presumably, been through Fleet School/VENTURE for part of their training, and would, presumably, be present at senior levels within the RCN organically.

How necessary, too, is command at sea for senior officer development, unless you're aiming for one of the relatively limited number of flags commanding ships? Seems like something where some continuity might have more value than box-checking for someone.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 201,320
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,883
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #152 on: May 17, 2020, 13:20:14 »
Who've also, presumably, been through Fleet School/VENTURE for part of their training, and would, presumably, be present at senior levels within the RCN organically.

I'm not sure how much value aircrew or techs would get out of going to Fleet School or VENTURE except for an "intro to the Navy" course.  There's no point spreading out training and requiring more places, people, etc. 

I remember reading that back in the day, RN Fleet Air Arm officers were also qualified BWKs, but realistically I don't see a point now.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline kev994

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Member
  • *
  • 4,115
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 242
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #153 on: May 17, 2020, 16:52:03 »
Do the aircrew/ techs on ship conduct fire fighter training?

Offline SeaKingTacco

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 165,750
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,787
  • Door Gunnery- The Sport of Kings!
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #154 on: May 17, 2020, 17:11:04 »
Do the aircrew/ techs on ship conduct fire fighter training?

Oh yeah. Good times, all round.

Online quadrapiper

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 11,870
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 371
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #155 on: May 17, 2020, 19:03:14 »
I'm not sure how much value aircrew or techs would get out of going to Fleet School or VENTURE except for an "intro to the Navy" course.  There's no point spreading out training and requiring more places, people, etc. 

I remember reading that back in the day, RN Fleet Air Arm officers were also qualified BWKs, but realistically I don't see a point now.
Was thinking of the "intro to the navy," plus whatever modules of e.g. NWO coursing might be of value, and whatever might be useful for the techs.

Presumably, also, you'd be bringing experienced pilots back to teach at VENTURE.

Offline kev994

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Member
  • *
  • 4,115
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 242
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #156 on: May 17, 2020, 19:21:09 »
Was thinking of the "intro to the navy," plus whatever modules of e.g. NWO coursing might be of value, and whatever might be useful for the techs.

Presumably, also, you'd be bringing experienced pilots back to teach at VENTURE.
We don’t have enough pilots to teach at pilot school, let alone Navy school.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 201,320
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,883
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #157 on: May 17, 2020, 19:30:31 »
Was thinking of the "intro to the navy," plus whatever modules of e.g. NWO coursing might be of value, and whatever might be useful for the techs.

Presumably, also, you'd be bringing experienced pilots back to teach at VENTURE.

I'm not sure any other NWO courses would be of any value.  The aircrew and techs are doing a completely different job. 

There wouldn't be anything for the pilots or techs to teach at VENTURE either.  Again, totally different job. 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Online quadrapiper

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 11,870
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 371
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #158 on: May 17, 2020, 23:36:35 »
I'm not sure any other NWO courses would be of any value.  The aircrew and techs are doing a completely different job. 

There wouldn't be anything for the pilots or techs to teach at VENTURE either.  Again, totally different job.
Was looking at the comments re: lack of understanding between MH and nonflyers - wouldn't one of the ways to address that be to include, for the former, something in the way of increased awareness of whatever it is that's driving shipboard decision making, and for the latter, at some point between commissioning and being in a position to misunderstand the needs of and regs governing MH, to get Care, Feeding, and Employment of MH Dets delivered to them, preferably by a pilot.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 201,320
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,883
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #159 on: May 18, 2020, 00:09:53 »
Was looking at the comments re: lack of understanding between MH and nonflyers - wouldn't one of the ways to address that be to include, for the former, something in the way of increased awareness of whatever it is that's driving shipboard decision making, and for the latter, at some point between commissioning and being in a position to misunderstand the needs of and regs governing MH, to get Care, Feeding, and Employment of MH Dets delivered to them, preferably by a pilot.

Yes, but that's not what NWO training does.  Or at least it didn't years ago.  MARS III and IV taught you basic navigation and how to be a BWK.  You don't really get into ship routine, etc until you start sailing at the last month or two of MARS IV. 

There was (is?) a course called the Naval Operations Course that gets into that sort of thing after you're done MARS IV - I don't know much about the specifics but it's taught in Halifax, not VENTURE.  My info is really old so maybe they do talk about MH dets on NOC.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline kev994

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Member
  • *
  • 4,115
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 242
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #160 on: May 18, 2020, 07:55:18 »
Do I hear a new DLN course in the making?

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 236,255
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,205
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #161 on: May 19, 2020, 13:13:35 »
Article Link

Technical Brief on the Recovery Operation of the RCAF CH-148 Cyclone Helicopter

Media advisory

May 18, 2020 – Ottawa – National Defence / Canadian Armed Forces

Media are invited to a technical brief, on Tuesday, May 19, 2020, to discuss the recovery operation for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) CH-148 Cyclone, following the accident that resulted in the tragic deaths of Sub-Lieutenant Abbigail Cowbrough, Captain Brenden Ian MacDonald, Captain Kevin Hagen, Captain Maxime Miron-Morin, Sub-Lieutenant Matthew Pyke, and Master Corporal Matthew Cousins on April 29, 2020.

In order to respect physical distancing, space will be limited. We encourage media to pool their coverage of this event and/or attend by teleconference.

When:
Tuesday, May 19 at 3:00 pm

Where:
West Block, Room 225
Parliament Hill
Wellington Street, Ottawa, Ontario

What:
Canadian Joint Operations Commander (CJOC), Lieutenant-General Michael Rouleau; Maritime Component Commander (MCC), Rear-Admiral Craig Baines; and Joint Force Air Component Commander (JFACC), Major-General Alain Pelletier will provide information about the planned Recovery Operation to locate and recover the remains of our fallen members and the Cyclone helicopter.
Teleconference:

Media can also participate by teleconference.
Toll-free (Canada/US) dial-in number: 1-866-206-0153
Local dial-in number: 613-954-9003
Passcode: 1325562#
"What a f$$kin' week!" - me, every Monday at about 1130hrs.

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Myth
  • *****
  • 296,060
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,535
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #162 on: May 19, 2020, 18:46:31 »
Do I hear a new DLN course in the making?

Or a helocast-podcast :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Drallib

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Member
  • *
  • 3,315
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 119
    • Making a Pilot in the RCAF
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #163 on: May 19, 2020, 20:20:17 »
Article Link

Technical Brief on the Recovery Operation of the RCAF CH-148 Cyclone Helicopter



U.S. Navy helping Canada to recover helicopter from fatal military crash | FULL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrt5PupBUo4
"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." John 15:13

Offline PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 941,035
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,568
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #164 on: May 20, 2020, 17:24:14 »
Out of security concerns (I got a malware warning when going to the last posted link), I binned the last post. The issue wasn't with the website or the author, but an ad server that the website uses that is a known malware distributor.

Offline MilEME09

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 46,145
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,091
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #165 on: May 25, 2020, 12:28:08 »
https://www.facebook.com/207409132619743/posts/3448510705176220/

Post and pictures by CAF operations, ship has left Greece destined for the search/recovery area. Expected to arrive in approximately 48 hours.
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline MilEME09

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 46,145
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,091
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #166 on: May 27, 2020, 17:48:58 »
Part of the helicopter has been found.

"Update: The combined #CAF and US Navy search and recovery team operating from EDT Hercules has located a large piece of the #Stalker22 fuselage and remains of our fallen were also found in the vicinity of the wreckage. The recovery team will continue their search for both our fallen and additional pieces of the wreckage. We remain committed to staying on site for as long as necessary. We know this operation is important to many of you, and we will provide updates as they become available."

https://www.facebook.com/207409132619743/posts/3454051124622178/
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 146,960
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,769
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #167 on: May 27, 2020, 20:37:17 »
 ???

Am I the only one that thinks it's pretty funny that, according to that GoC Facebook page, the only parts of our armed forces that are actual armed forces are the RCN and the Thunderbirds?

Everybody else, including the Canadian Army, the RCAF and the CAF are listed as merely "government organizations".  ;D

Online Colin P

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 161,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,163
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #168 on: May 27, 2020, 21:31:48 »
The next Liberal "White Paper" "No military needs scary weapons"

Offline CloudCover

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 53,455
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,533
Re: Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)
« Reply #169 on: May 27, 2020, 23:36:20 »
???

Am I the only one that thinks it's pretty funny that, according to that GoC Facebook page, the only parts of our armed forces that are actual armed forces are the RCN and the Thunderbirds?

Everybody else, including the Canadian Army, the RCAF and the CAF are listed as merely "government organizations".  ;D

Not only that, it’s the USAF Thunderbirds, not even our own 426 Thunderbird Sqn....
... Move!! ...