Topic: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018

[PuckChaser]

Holy crap, common sense.

I can even skip them right to medium term, just use the US Army's AR670-1 requirements. https://www.propper.com/blog/do-your-boots-meet-AR-670-1/ No need to reinvent the wheel here.

1. Tan or coyote in color
2. 8 to 10 inches in height
3. Made of tan or coyote flesh-side out cattle hide leather
4. Plain toe
5. Soles match the color of the tan or coyote upper materials
6. Rubber and polyether polyurethane are the only outsole materials that are authorized
7. Sole not to exceed 2 inches in height, when measured from the bottom of the outsole, and will not extend up the back of the heel or boot or over the top of the toe
8. Exterior of the boot upper will not contain mesh but will be constructed of either all leather or a combination of leather and non-mesh fabric

[Once_a_TQ]

The US model is referenced and shared on the Combat Boot Working Group site.

[Rheostatic]

In case, like me, you're curious what OCFC2 means:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/business-defence-acquisition-guide-2015/joint-and-other-systems-517.page

[ballz]

I'll be anxiously checking the CANFORGENs on Monday.... and until I see it then still consider this RUMINT (which they've been surprisingly good at keeping on the down-low) and not at the point of actively shopping for a pair of boots yet.

I've felt Vance has had a lot of big ideas and that it seemed to me he hadn't come to realize he won't be CDS nearly long enough, nor will anybody be in one position long enough, for implementing 90% of them. This would certainly redeem that a bit in my eyes, although I'd be curious to know how much the CDS had or didn't have to do with it.

[Jarnhamar]

Going on year 5 or 6 of having to buy my own boots thanks to orders that are lost, wrong sizes ordered, wrong sizes recieved.

This sounds great but I'll believe it when I see it. Two years ago I heard the army rsm say camelbaks would be issued to everyone and non of that deployment only bullshit. Guess whats still deployment only.

[Eye In The Sky]

All good points. Had a soldier wear his shitty issue zipper boots, big toe came through the boot and zipper broke so he bought his own boots as there were no issue boots available.  Hurt his foot training and was told he may not be covered as the boots weren't issue.  Sigh...

This drives me.  Who told him that, his CofC?  'Cause DVA doesn't even ask that crap?  "Was the injury related to a military duty performed on military time" are the key elements.  I'm a 'disability pension - monthly payment for life' type and DVA never asked any question about kit being worn.  They didn't even ask me if the parachute was 'issued', that might have been the cause of my f&&ked up landing after all, right?

[Eye In The Sky]

although I'd be curious to know how much the CDS had or didn't have to do with it.

Not sure he'd know if the LOTPs were good/garbage...can't find a picture of him wearing them, but the ones in this pic look comfy.

https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,118575.msg1469239.html#msg1469239   *Leading by example* I guess. 

[Eye In The Sky]

It's not just the Army who issued less than ideal boots. 

I just got the list of approved LPO boots from my Wg Supply a few weeks ago...none of them are full leather.  Boots are part of ALSE to flyers and I don't like the idea of nylon boots melting to my feet.  The Supply Manual says the special / special size footwear should match the specs of the issued ones where available.  So, if they are 'available' and I could get them before, why were they removed from the list?

Simple answer is cost.  I've asked for the full leather version to be approved. We'll wait and see what happens next week - I'm also the Sqn ASLEO. 

[PuckChaser]

might have been the cause of my f&&ked up landing after all, right?

That was just a feet and knees together issue. The Army says that solves all the injury issues with CT1/CT2... 

[Quirky]

It's not just the Army who issued less than ideal boots. 

I just got the list of approved LPO boots from my Wg Supply a few weeks ago...none of them are full leather.  Boots are part of ALSE to flyers and I don't like the idea of nylon boots melting to my feet.  The Supply Manual says the special / special size footwear should match the specs of the issued ones where available.  So, if they are 'available' and I could get them before, why were they removed from the list?

Simple answer is cost.  I've asked for the full leather version to be approved. We'll wait and see what happens next week - I'm also the Sqn ASLEO.

Only approved LPO boots are now Red Wings and Magnums(these are apparently discontinued now?) at the Wing. Swats no longer approved since they have the side mesh, zippers also not allowed. Haven’t worn issued garbage since my 3s and now wear Red Wings that don’t dig the safety toe into my feet.

[Eye In The Sky]

Well, based on what you just said, the 'approved boots' for RCAF aren't a nationally controlled list, because the list I have is different. 

There are the ones I have been getting for a decade now:  https://magnumbootscanada.ca/products/stealth-force-8-0-leather-waterproof-ct-cp-boots

They're not on my Wings list. 

There are:  https://magnumbootscanada.ca/products/stealth-force-8-0-ct-cp-boots

Same boots except the full leather vice nylon/leather combo. 

This is the problem, when you have Supply Techs deciding what boots people are approved to get who don't consider things like ALSE requirements and base things on cost, etc.  Why are people 'not allowed' to go buy their own boots?  Because they might not provide the same protection the issued ones do...the Air Force boot specs are detailed in the Flight Comment article attached below.

Just like the *approved* Magnums don't.  Nylon isn't known for its fire resistant properties.  I'll wait to see what comes back with my request for the full leather model, and then address it if required up my Sqn and the Div ALSE CofC.

Then my next question will be...who made and approved this "list" of boots that don't meet the same requirements as the issued boots do.

I'm hoping this 'boot allowance' program goes out pan-CAF if it does happen, but being that we can't get flight suits, survival knives and other BASIC items right now (one of my guys couldn't get flying gloves for pete sakes)...I'm not hopeful.

Question Quirky - Red Wings...what model are approved where you're at?  http://www.redwingsafety.com/safety-boots

[Eye In The Sky]

That was just a feet and knees together issue. The Army says that solves all the injury issues with CT1/CT2... 

Mine was a 'coming in for a front-left', shoulder load and ruck decided to anchor in some brambles on Buxton at the last second...that turned my front-left into a *straight backwards heels-**** into the little ditch/gulley on the DZ.  Definitely not my favorite day in the green machine...

But, DVA never asked me what boots I was wearing were civie pattern or issued, or if my gitch was issued or not (it wasn't...remember the old boxers??). 

[Quirky]

Question Quirky - Red Wings...what model are approved where you're at?  http://www.redwingsafety.com/safety-boots

http://www.redwingsafety.com/safety-boot/3512-safe-us/mens-8-inch-boot-black-8-inch-boot-black

Magnums and swats were on the list at one point too, but one month the requirements changed and now all you can get are Red Wings. I’m pretty sure it’s because LPOs are done at one store in town, who decides which models to carry. Its a privately owned clothing store so the CF can only order what they offer, right now it’s only Red Wings and whatever magnums are left in stock. The Red Wings I got were also marked up $50 over MSRP, not any special sizing either.

[Eye In The Sky]

copy, thanks.

[LunchMeat]

http://www.redwingsafety.com/safety-boot/3512-safe-us/mens-8-inch-boot-black-8-inch-boot-black

Magnums and swats were on the list at one point too, but one month the requirements changed and now all you can get are Red Wings. I’m pretty sure it’s because LPOs are done at one store in town, who decides which models to carry. Its a privately owned clothing store so the CF can only order what they offer, right now it’s only Red Wings and whatever magnums are left in stock. The Red Wings I got were also marked up $50 over MSRP, not any special sizing either.

Red Wings are nice, but not that nice.

[Jareddewey]

Thoughts on these?
https://www.goruck.com/creating-macv-1/

[PuckChaser]

Thoughts on these?
https://www.goruck.com/creating-macv-1/

Those look like 6" uppers. I doubt that'll be the approved height, especially if they're using AR670-1 as a reference.

[Quirky]

Red Wings are nice, but not that nice.

After wearing those garbage safety toe desert boots for 6 months in Kuwait the Red Wings are like slippers. I had no back, knee or hip pain in my life until I wore issued steel toe boots. Soon as I switched to Magnums, Swats or now Red Wings all the pain and soreness went away. I could have worn my skates in the desert for 6 months and had less issues.

[Eye In The Sky]

After wearing those garbage safety toe desert boots for 6 months in Kuwait the Red Wings are like slippers. I had no back, knee or hip pain in my life until I wore issued steel toe boots. Soon as I switched to Magnums, Swats or now Red Wings all the pain and soreness went away. I could have worn my skates in the desert for 6 months and had less issues.

Yup, they became known as "The Cripplers" in our Det.  Most people said "F this", and ordered Magnums off Shoeme.ca out of their own pocket.  No one wanted to go down with those cement clunkers on and be stuck in an E & E situation with them.  There were people who wore them before deploying, and after walking from their car into the hanger, had pain and blisters, etc.

Absolute garbage, even worse than the summer and winter air force boots. 

[Hamish Seggie]

As y’all know I’m a retired Infantry dude. Our feet are our primary means if transport therefore good footwear is a must.
At work I wear Under Armor boots. Nice and light but the durability in a field environment would be a concern.
From what I’ve gathered the boot fiasco hasn’t been solved.....

[daftandbarmy]

Thoughts on these?
https://www.goruck.com/creating-macv-1/

Not as good as these, for Infantry 

Lowa 2108680999 Men's Military GTX CH Gore Tex Waterproof Combat Hiker Boot

http://www.militarybootsdirect.com/lowa-boots-2108680999.html

[ballz]

Except the Combat Boot Working Group page on ACIMS, the 3 phased approach approved by ADM(MAT), the draft CANGORGEN that was reviewed and submitted for final signature this week, the claim process proposed that mirrors the BTU system, the presentation to Army council (which is available on the DIN) out lining all the above, ect ect.

There was some really good work done on this. I am pleasantly surprised.

This one has some serious steam and it will only be a matter of time till is comes out. Will it meet the July 16th date, I dont know. But if it doesn't I dont think it will be far off.

Can you post an ACIMS link for those of us who wish to snoop 

[Remius]

More importantly is the CANFORGEN out yet?

[ballz]

No CANFORGENS posted yet today, I'd be pretty shocked if they actually had it posted in time. That said, seeing it on ACIMS would just make me feel very warm and fuzzy.

[Once_a_TQ]

Can you post an ACIMS link for those of us who wish to snoop 

DIN only:
http://acims.mil.ca/org/ArmyG4/Boots/default.aspx