Author Topic: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018  (Read 256977 times)

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Offline Tcm621

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #250 on: April 20, 2016, 23:32:16 »
Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?
A promotion?

Offline Nudibranch

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #251 on: April 21, 2016, 01:02:46 »
Hmmm... one might think it would be a better use of resources to just hand out med chits on demand and let people get boots they like... :facepalm:


No. A better use of resources would be to quit medicalizing non-medical issues. Like boot chits. And workplace conflict. And beard chits (ok, pseudofolliculitis barbae does exist. But it mostly affects black men, and there's no legitimate medical reason half of Valcartier's running around with beard chits).

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #252 on: April 21, 2016, 08:16:12 »
Beard chits and shaved heads.

Offline BinRat55

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #253 on: April 21, 2016, 08:44:11 »
Oy vey.

Another side of the problem is when Clothing Stores across Canada start doing their own thing, making their own policies and treating direction differently than everyone else. I have a soldier who comes in from Shilo (completely hypothetical...) and says he's been getting COTS for years now. Chit? No sir. Why are you getting LPO boots then? Well I just told them that their boots didn't fit - I was getting blisters. So they sent me downtown. Can I get my new Swats please? I say he's not entitled to LPO boots here just because he says so. He becomes irate because "Gagetown doesn't know what they are doing".

When someone is treated a certain way on one base and another base differs from that, they become offensive. If we (Clothing Stores and Base Supply) stuck to policy and directives ACROSS the board, I believe it would be easier in the long run. My 2 cents.

As far as the LOTB / LPO boots are concerned - see above. Oy vey!
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #254 on: April 21, 2016, 09:22:26 »
To add to the "sizing is not a med issue" - in any case you won't be wasting the doc's time, you'll be wasting (or not) the Physio's. They took the boot-chit complaints away from MOs because frankly MOs know nothing about boots (why in the world would they, boot-fitting is not something taught in med school), and would often just auto-scribble a chit on request.

The Physios are harsh mistresses&misters of boot chits, and will assess and trial any number of orthodics before you'd get a med boot chit out of them.

Actually, they hit the Doc and/or Med A first through the MIR (ooopps .. CDU  ::)) to complain about their feet, but when they bring up size, the Doc/MedA may send them away right then and there. OR, they may send them on to Physio to waste Physio's time.

In order to get far enough to waste physio's time, you're hitting the med side first to waste theirs. 
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #255 on: April 21, 2016, 09:23:39 »
Hmmm... one might think it would be a better use of resources to just hand out med chits on demand and let people get boots they like... :facepalm:

Medical budget pays for medical footwear; good luck with that.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #256 on: April 21, 2016, 09:30:05 »
I hear you, I don't think anyone here would accuse you of siding with the boot mafia, just giving us the info.

Wasn't actually hinting at me, personally, but rather "Sup techs" in general ... we always get the rants and blame for "the rules" that we have neither input into nor control over.

Quote
Jay-Z said it best: 72 sizes and my feet ain't one.

Speaking of the beotch of the boots and mondopoint - I totally agree.  I've had quite a few experiences fitting troops' feet and many cases like that you speak of.  Also quite a few where pers did not have nice arches on the tops of their feet.  The boots would fit perfectly toe to heel, but even yanking the laces as tight as they could go so that all eyelets were touching each other saw us still being able to "pinch an inch" of unfilled leather.  Imagine those feet after a nice day of humping ruck.

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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #257 on: April 21, 2016, 09:37:22 »

No. A better use of resources would be to quit medicalizing non-medical issues. Like boot chits. And workplace conflict. And beard chits (ok, pseudofolliculitis barbae does exist. But it mostly affects black men, and there's no legitimate medical reason half of Valcartier's running around with beard chits).

Sizing isn't medicalized though and never has been.  Issues with special sizing have always been dealt with via the SAM and are a Supply problem.

Medical Issues with feet are a Medical Chit issue (fallen arches, requirement for mesh-sided due to skin condition, ortho footwear, ortho soles with lift etc)

Helmets On:  I saw the most epic beard out here in Edmonton yesterday ... at least a good 8 inches long on a uniformed gent with no hair on his head.


Much like sleeping bags:  If you are allergic to feathers, the medical side of the house allows via Chit for procurement of different sleeping bag (through clothing stores) due to your medical condition.  If you are 7' tall, then clothing stores will procure the extra-long bag without requiring Chit as it is a sizing issue.


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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #258 on: April 21, 2016, 09:40:50 »
Oy vey.

Another side of the problem is when Clothing Stores across Canada start doing their own thing, making their own policies and treating direction differently than everyone else. I have a soldier who comes in from Shilo (completely hypothetical...) and says he's been getting COTS for years now. Chit? No sir. Why are you getting LPO boots then? Well I just told them that their boots didn't fit - I was getting blisters. So they sent me downtown. Can I get my new Swats please? I say he's not entitled to LPO boots here just because he says so. He becomes irate because "Gagetown doesn't know what they are doing".

...

And, due to locations like that ... we have the CANLANDGEN that needed to be cut re-inforcing the "rules".  Post a copy of it inside your door next to the uniform that I hung up there years ago (which probably is still there). 

BTW, that's a shitty sup tech in Shilo causing problems for everyone else but I'd also suspect he was wearing LPOd for so long because one his buddies worked there and was "looking after him".   There's a charge for that.
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Offline BinRat55

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #259 on: April 21, 2016, 10:21:48 »
And, due to locations like that ... we have the CANLANDGEN that needed to be cut re-inforcing the "rules".  Post a copy of it inside your door next to the uniform that I hung up there years ago (which probably is still there). 

Lol!! Actually, it is! We have the CANLANDGEN posted, and I actually went a step further and posted the SAM references along with Sandra's email (her full name redacted of course) and the new, revised LOTB Implementation Order.

You know as well as I do - I can stamp it on people's foreheads and some will still not get it!
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #260 on: April 21, 2016, 12:02:32 »
Lol!! Actually, it is! We have the CANLANDGEN posted, and I actually went a step further and posted the SAM references along with Sandra's email (her full name redacted of course) and the new, revised LOTB Implementation Order.

You know as well as I do - I can stamp it on people's foreheads and some will still not get it!

Now that I want to see....

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #261 on: April 21, 2016, 12:26:23 »

You know as well as I do - I can stamp it on people's foreheads and some will still not get it!

Unless they look in the mirror, they won't get it.  Even if they do, it will all be backwards to them.  Might as well be Greek.
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #262 on: April 21, 2016, 13:17:34 »
Unless they look in the mirror, they won't get it.  Even if they do, it will all be backwards to them.  Might as well be Greek.

Leave it to a zipperhead to turn my sarcasm into logic!
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Offline Nudibranch

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #263 on: April 21, 2016, 13:49:08 »
Sizing isn't medicalized though and never has been.  Issues with special sizing have always been dealt with via the SAM and are a Supply problem.

Medical Issues with feet are a Medical Chit issue (fallen arches, requirement for mesh-sided due to skin condition, ortho footwear, ortho soles with lift etc)

No, it was the "I wannas" that were medicalized (same as with the majority of beards). Given the huge drop-off in med chits for boots once it went from MO to Physio, that's quite clear - MOs just scribbled a chit. Foot-for-boot assessment isn't something they ever get taught, and frankly, as a group they don't care. It wastes their time, here's a chit, get lost.
Physios will actually assess the foot. And if mbr has a legit med reason that can't be handled via the various orthodics they have, mbr will still get a chit.

But the "I wannas" that slid through under the MO-chit system have been largely controlled by giving boot chit control to Physio.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #264 on: April 21, 2016, 15:24:26 »

Enough already.  For MEDICAL, that is a medical Chit:  The rules have never changed:  that's a medical chit with MO authorization to LPO boots.


Every damn time we go through this ...   :facepalm:

I guess I took the wording the email literally (too literally?)..."LPOs will no longer be approved for any COTS Army boot replacements"   :dunno:

But...I do want to note...I said "the LOTBs do not fit my feet properly ";  I would bet a months pay that the staff at the MIR/BHosp will say that is a FIT issue, not a medical one...

So, for the end user it will likely end up being the same now as it has been as of late;  supply will require mbr's to go to the BHosp because supply says its a medical issue.  Mbr will go to the BHosp and medical will say it is a fit issue.

I've been the monkey in the middle of the Supply/Medical  :slapfight: over 'who pays for special issue boots' before, and suspect it will happen to myself, and others, despite the LOTBs now being available.  It is unfortunate and not likely to change.  Ever.

It's a big FU to no one.  Medical requirements haven't changed; you have the ref - I've sent it you before - nil change.

Again, I took the wording of the email you posted too literally I guess.

BUT...you know of the run around I went thru.  In the end, the CWWBs I started trying to get last June, I picked them up...the end of March.  Yup, fan-*******-tastic.

This whole boot thing is a flash-point for me;  I've gotten the run around so many times over 13ish years since being put in orthotics I am pretty tired of it at this point.  It is never just as easy as "take worn out boots into supply, get new ones ordered, get phone call when they arrive, go to supply to get them".  It always seems to be an exercise in  :brickwall:.

Copy what they mean about LOTBs being issued to RCAF pers for IMPACT.  But, again the way that is worded also looks like all RCAF pers can be issued the LOTB for IMPACT, which is almost exactly what we have been trying to do since IMPACT started - get the army hot weather boot on the SOI for deploying aircrew. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 15:39:04 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #265 on: April 21, 2016, 15:48:25 »
The Physios are harsh mistresses&misters of boot chits, and will assess and trial any number of orthodics before you'd get a med boot chit out of them.

My experiences with them the last 13 years is the opposite, I must say.  Most recent being last summer, when I had to 'update' my chit with Supply.  Physio huffed and puffed about how ridiculous that was, that my feet weren't going to 'get better by some miracle', and wrote me out a new chit saying I require LPO to fit my orthotics.   Other than that, I was asked if my current boot/orthotics are working together.  I said "yup" and was on my way inside of 4-5 minutes.   :2c:
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #266 on: April 21, 2016, 15:54:23 »
No, it was the "I wannas" that were medicalized (same as with the majority of beards). Given the huge drop-off in med chits for boots once it went from MO to Physio, that's quite clear - MOs just scribbled a chit. Foot-for-boot assessment isn't something they ever get taught, and frankly, as a group they don't care. It wastes their time, here's a chit, get lost.
Physios will actually assess the foot. And if mbr has a legit med reason that can't be handled via the various orthodics they have, mbr will still get a chit.

But the "I wannas" that slid through under the MO-chit system have been largely controlled by giving boot chit control to Physio.

Seen.  Thank you!
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #267 on: April 21, 2016, 16:11:57 »
Wasn't actually hinting at me, personally, but rather "Sup techs" in general ... we always get the rants and blame for "the rules" that we have neither input into nor control over.

Never at you, I know which side of the argument you're on.  At sup techs in general?  Not so much...but the current system, the  :slapfight: over 'who pays' between the Supply and Medical world, which people like me end up getting caught up in.

 
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #268 on: April 21, 2016, 16:54:14 »
Never at you, I know which side of the argument you're on.  At sup techs in general?  Not so much...but the current system, the  :slapfight: over 'who pays' between the Supply and Medical world, which people like me end up getting caught up in.

Med for Med; Sup for sizing (out of Command allocation).  It isn't an issue for me.
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #269 on: April 22, 2016, 11:34:21 »
The problem is, though, that not everyone in the Supply of H Svcs worlds do know, and in those cases the mbr is caught between the 2 competing branches and without the kit they need/should have to do their primary function in the CAF.  I've been the monkey in the middle and it is very frustrating. 

Hopefully the LOTBs take some of the strain off the system. 
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #270 on: April 22, 2016, 11:41:51 »
The problem is, though, that not everyone in the Supply of H Svcs worlds do know, and in those cases the mbr is caught between the 2 competing branches and without the kit they need/should have to do their primary function in the CAF.  I've been the monkey in the middle and it is very frustrating. 

Hopefully the LOTBs take some of the strain off the system.

Medical policy does not impact Supply activity.  Supply policy does not impact medical policy/activity.

The problem seems to be that everyone automatically assumes supply has a say or dictates medical issues of footwear.  We don't, this is their area and none of the communications we put out regarding footwear LPOs are applicable to medical requirements.  That's their domain. 

Our footwear comms relate only to our footwear domain:  special sizing and stocked items.
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #271 on: April 22, 2016, 12:09:41 »
So far I find the LOTB to fit far more like a commercial boot. No rucks or field training yet, but seems like a step in the right direction.

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #272 on: April 22, 2016, 13:09:41 »
Update on my end:

Went to the Dockyard supply, and they had a pair of LOTBs with a minor issue, they're missing the lower quick-lace eyelet (Lace can be threaded through the hole, so no big deal.

In my quick once over and try on, they're really nice. Cut a lot lower than the black Cripplers, but I like them.

Thanks for all your help!



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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #273 on: April 22, 2016, 13:12:05 »
So far I find the LOTB to fit far more like a commercial boot. No rucks or field training yet, but seems like a step in the right direction.

It's the quality of these boots that I found lacking in November.  They just could take the hard use in the field.
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #274 on: April 26, 2016, 11:58:46 »
Saw this and had to comment - this is what happens when we try to make EVERYONE happy...
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