Author Topic: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018  (Read 257090 times)

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Offline LPike

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #225 on: April 20, 2016, 15:27:30 »


Just a point;  for CFB Halifax and area, FLOG Clothing Stores is what the 'army, navy and air force' supply places all fall under.  Last I was posted to Hfx, the Clothing Stores in the Armouries, the dockyard and over at 12 Wing were all det's of FLOG. 

Hope it works out for you.  If you have a pressing need for them and it doesn't look like they can get them from the issue variety, you should ask about LPO if you are going on tasking/course or something.

Yeah, that's what I mean by Army, Navy, and Air Force.
I might ask about LPO, however I'm on BMQ at the moment, so I feel like A: Theres hardly a need for me to have boots right this moment, and B: Even if I did get them, at the start of the crse, the crse WO specifically stated that non issued boots would not be tolerated.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #226 on: April 20, 2016, 15:28:49 »
If they are LPO from supply, they are issued boots though.   :nod:
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Offline LPike

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #227 on: April 20, 2016, 15:34:52 »
If they are LPO from supply, they are issued boots though.   :nod:
Ahhh, I see.

Now, for a poor no-hook, no clue, would you be able to explain the LPO process?...

Thanks in advance!

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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #228 on: April 20, 2016, 15:35:32 »
I believe, the last CANFORGEN that came out on boots said no more LPOs are allowed.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #229 on: April 20, 2016, 15:39:08 »
Basically, if supply can't get you the boots thru the system, lack of sizes etc, they have the ability to go to local suppliers and contract out the requirement for your boots.  When I did it in Halifax, they would contact a supplier, who would contact me to come in for sizing.

Once I was sized, they would order 1 pair of the boots.  When they came in to the supplier, they would ship them to Supply, who would then contact me and I would go to supply to get 'issued' the boots. 

After about 30 days if I was happy with the boots and there wasn't any issues, I would then contact supply and they would order my 2nd pair.

That's the basics.  LPO stands for Local Purchase Order I believe. 
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #230 on: April 20, 2016, 15:51:45 »
I believe, the last CANFORGEN that came out on boots said no more LPOs are allowed.

I don't see how they can do that.  The issued boots don't fit everyone's feet!

FWIW, I just picked up a pair of LPO boots a few weeks ago.  I don't have a single pair of 'standard' issue boots except my ankle boots.  My TCBs (Magnum 5314s), CWWBs (Bates 2284s) and desert boots (Reebok RB 8893s) are all LPO.   :dunno:
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #231 on: April 20, 2016, 16:30:32 »
I've gone back to look. It's not a CANFORGEN. It's an email trail, from those 'people up there'. It's not mine so I won't post it.

As far as "I don't see how they can do that.  The issued boots don't fit everyone's feet!", you've been around long enough to know that there are faceless wogs out there with more power than they should have, that, on occasion, do whatever the frig they want and let the crap flow downhill. Just because they can and need that 'Leading Change' bubble filled.

One only has to look to the idiots, in uniform, that pressed the government for changes to buttons and bows. From what I have heard, the twit that sent that ball rolling was nothing more than a Reserve LCol and his connections to various Reserve Senates. (Another reason to dash that whole antiquated system against the rocks)

So, yes, things that stupid are easily done by self centred, silo erecting, empire builders that should have never gotten out of BM(O)Q, but have somehow managed to get someone's ear.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #232 on: April 20, 2016, 16:51:44 »
I've gone back to look. It's not a CANFORGEN. It's an email trail, ...

I see them ... (there's two separate e-mails), I do see that they made it to all the G4s, N4s, A4s and Snr Sup Techs at all the bases and wings by the time I saw them  --- so people, one would hope, should be tracking by now:

Essentials:

(email date 18 March 2016):  FW: General Purpose/Temperate Army Boots - Cease LPO/
Eff: of Monday, 21 Mar 2016, LPOs will no longer be approved for any COTS Army boot replacements as LOTB is avail to Clot Stores and to be issued through attrition.  Any LPOs already recd by higher will be actioned. No new LPOs will be accepted.


(email date 22 March 2016):   Rappel - Restriction des bottes de climat chaud (Bottes désert)/Reminder - Restriction on Army Hot Weather boots (Desert Cbt Boots)
Essentially authorizes LPOs of COTs from the approved DLR list if nil stock in certain sizes of desert boots (CFTPO Number will be required).  Entertaining no exceptions from the DLR List of approved. And, states LOTBs not to be used as replacements for DCBs.
Also:  LOTB’s are authorised for RCAF members deploying on OP IMPACT.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 16:54:32 by ArmyVern »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #233 on: April 20, 2016, 17:09:24 »
I see them ... (there's two separate e-mails), I do see that they made it to all the G4s, N4s, A4s and Snr Sup Techs at all the bases and wings by the time I saw them  --- so people, one would hope, should be tracking by now:

Essentials:

(email date 18 March 2016):  FW: General Purpose/Temperate Army Boots - Cease LPO/
Eff: of Monday, 21 Mar 2016, LPOs will no longer be approved for any COTS Army boot replacements as LOTB is avail to Clot Stores and to be issued through attrition.  Any LPOs already recd by higher will be actioned. No new LPOs will be accepted.

I guess the key part there is Army boots, not the CEMS project ones.

So, this leads to the question I'll ask;  I am army, the LOTBs do not fit my feet properly and cause me injury...what then?

Quote
(email date 22 March 2016):   Rappel - Restriction des bottes de climat chaud (Bottes désert)/Reminder - Restriction on Army Hot Weather boots (Desert Cbt Boots)
Essentially authorizes LPOs of COTs from the approved DLR list if nil stock in certain sizes of desert boots (CFTPO Number will be required).  Entertaining no exceptions from the DLR List of approved. And, states LOTBs not to be used as replacements for DCBs.
Also:  LOTB’s are authorised for RCAF members deploying on OP IMPACT.


Okay, the underlined parts confuse me.  If you are RCAF or employed with an RCAF unit, you get issued DCBs for IMPACT.  1 Cdn Air Div also directs 'all pers shall wear safety toe'.  How can LOTBs be authorized for RCAF OP IMPACT folks, but are not replacements for DCBs ???

Aircrew deploying have been trying to state a case for those DCBs (utter garbage boots IMO) to be removed from the SOI for IMPACT/desert flying ops for over a year, to no avail.  Flyers 'shall' wear safety toes at all times.  LOTBs are soft toe, aren't they?

Or, are they again, just talking about the Army boots?  I thought the army had 'hot weather boots' and the air force had 'DCBs"?  ??? 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 17:12:28 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #234 on: April 20, 2016, 17:11:06 »
How does that apply to LPO boots because military sizing does not fit? I'm trialling a pair of LOTBs now, but if they don't work and there's no custom boot contract, did higher just pull out a "suck it up"?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #235 on: April 20, 2016, 17:17:51 »
How does that apply to LPO boots because military sizing does not fit? I'm trialling a pair of LOTBs now, but if they don't work and there's no custom boot contract, did higher just pull out a "suck it up"?

Yup, nothing like issuing a big frig U! to the troops.  Not everyone who wants LPOs are after the LCF.  I was sent to the foot clinic in 2003, was assessed and have been wearing orthotics and LPOs since then; even the '72 different size' RCAF boots don't work, because....surprise! they all have the exact same heel cup and boot depth.

Just because they designed 'new' boots and paid for them doesn't mean they will work for everyone.    :facepalm:

I am very curious, what do they intend to do about the people who the LOTB will not fit properly. 
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #236 on: April 20, 2016, 17:26:23 »


So, this leads to the question I'll ask;  I am army, the LOTBs do not fit my feet properly and cause me injury...what then?


Enough already.  For MEDICAL, that is a medical Chit:  The rules have never changed:  that's a medical chit with MO authorization to LPO boots.


Every damn time we go through this ...   :facepalm:

Quote

Okay, the underlined parts confuse me.  If you are RCAF or employed with an RCAF unit, you get issued DCBs for IMPACT.  1 Cdn Air Div also directs 'all pers shall wear safety toe'.  How can LOTBs be authorized for RCAF OP IMPACT folks, but are not replacements for DCBs ???

Aircrew deploying have been trying to state a case for those DCBs (utter garbage boots IMO) to be removed from the SOI for IMPACT/desert flying ops for over a year, to no avail.  Flyers 'shall' wear safety toes at all times.  LOTBs are soft toe, aren't they?

Or, are they again, just talking about the Army boots?  I thought the army had 'hot weather boots' and the air force had 'DCBs"?  ???

You do realize, of course, that not all pers in RCAF uniforms belong RCAF Units but may still find themselves on Op IMPACT. 

What the message is saying is that IF an RCAF member is issued LOTBs, that they do NOT replace the DCBs .... that those members will still be entitled to be issued their DCBs.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #237 on: April 20, 2016, 17:28:48 »
Yup, nothing like issuing a big frig U! to the troops.  Not everyone who wants LPOs are after the LCF.  I was sent to the foot clinic in 2003, was assessed and have been wearing orthotics and LPOs since then; even the '72 different size' RCAF boots don't work, because....surprise! they all have the exact same heel cup and boot depth.


It's a big FU to no one.  Medical requirements haven't changed; you have the ref - I've sent it you before - nil change.
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #238 on: April 20, 2016, 17:37:16 »
Thanks Vern. You explained it ever so much better than I possibly could've. :salute:
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #239 on: April 20, 2016, 17:38:28 »
So only medical chits will be entertained? I have to waste the doc's time to get a chit for boots because bad sizing?

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #240 on: April 20, 2016, 17:46:07 »
So only medical chits will be entertained? I have to waste the doc's time to get a chit for boots because bad sizing?

You mean, don't waste your own time because the doc will not give you a chit for sizing as that is not a medical problem.  Sizing is a Supply problem, but here's the problem:


"Sizing" is the issue - if the mondopoints don't fit, and that's the kicker, because they say that mondopoints run in many, many more size options (length, width etc) than COTs footwear (and they actually do - they just suck!).  They say, that if you fit into COTs that you can walk into the store and buy, then you fit into mondopoints. Period.  I don't say that.

It is the very rariety with the size 1, size 18 foot (or extremely small, but extremely wide feet etc etc) who can/will not be fitted out of stocked items - the far ends of the sizing spectrum.  They would get LPOd footwear as there are no stocked & issued boots in those rare cases.  All us in betweens - apparently fit into mondos.

Someone says so, again - not me.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 17:49:11 by ArmyVern »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #241 on: April 20, 2016, 17:53:34 »
Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #242 on: April 20, 2016, 18:56:03 »
Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?

Thought you didn't do drugs? ;D
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #243 on: April 20, 2016, 19:15:00 »
Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?

Would that be the units that refuse tasks to test equipment?  The branches and corps that refuse to post their top people into the projects to acquire equipment?
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #244 on: April 20, 2016, 20:06:07 »
Would that be the units that refuse tasks to test equipment?  The branches and corps that refuse to post their top people into the projects to acquire equipment?

My current company spent an entire year (2013) answering to DLR. DLR practically owned the company over the course of 2x trials on the platform. The LAV 6.0 is still a jugf**k to this day, pretty much as unprepared for war as those boots that keep blowing at the seams in the office. The problems of our procurement goes well beyond not having enough people (or quality people) to test equipment.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #245 on: April 20, 2016, 20:43:29 »
Would that be the units that refuse tasks to test equipment?  The branches and corps that refuse to post their top people into the projects to acquire equipment?

If a unit refused out of laziness and not lack of relevance I would say for sure.

I know of a unit of infanteers which included basic and advanced reconnaissance patrolmen, basic and advance snipers, pathfinders etc.. who's contribution to this LOTB project was having 10 pairs of various boots placed on a table and then have members from said unit walk in the room, look at the boot and then rate them based on looks and looks only. Members were strictly forbidden from physically touching the boot.

Pretty sure whoever decided that was on drugs  ;D


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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #246 on: April 20, 2016, 21:06:26 »
So only medical chits will be entertained? I have to waste the doc's time to get a chit for boots because bad sizing?

To add to the "sizing is not a med issue" - in any case you won't be wasting the doc's time, you'll be wasting (or not) the Physio's. They took the boot-chit complaints away from MOs because frankly MOs know nothing about boots (why in the world would they, boot-fitting is not something taught in med school), and would often just auto-scribble a chit on request.

The Physios are harsh mistresses&misters of boot chits, and will assess and trial any number of orthodics before you'd get a med boot chit out of them.

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #247 on: April 20, 2016, 21:25:18 »
To add to the "sizing is not a med issue" - in any case you won't be wasting the doc's time, you'll be wasting (or not) the Physio's. They took the boot-chit complaints away from MOs because frankly MOs know nothing about boots (why in the world would they, boot-fitting is not something taught in med school), and would often just auto-scribble a chit on request.

The Physios are harsh mistresses&misters of boot chits, and will assess and trial any number of orthodics before you'd get a med boot chit out of them.

Hmmm... one might think it would be a better use of resources to just hand out med chits on demand and let people get boots they like... :facepalm:
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #248 on: April 20, 2016, 21:41:27 »
You mean, don't waste your own time because the doc will not give you a chit for sizing as that is not a medical problem.  Sizing is a Supply problem, but here's the problem:

"Sizing" is the issue - if the mondopoints don't fit, and that's the kicker, because they say that mondopoints run in many, many more size options (length, width etc) than COTs footwear (and they actually do - they just suck!).  They say, that if you fit into COTs that you can walk into the store and buy, then you fit into mondopoints. Period.  I don't say that.

It is the very rariety with the size 1, size 18 foot (or extremely small, but extremely wide feet etc etc) who can/will not be fitted out of stocked items - the far ends of the sizing spectrum.  They would get LPOd footwear as there are no stocked & issued boots in those rare cases.  All us in betweens - apparently fit into mondos.

Someone says so, again - not me.

I hear you, I don't think anyone here would accuse you of siding with the boot mafia, just giving us the info.

Unfortunately I think EITS described the problem, where all mondopoint sizes have the same heel cup size as forefoot width. So someone with feet like mine, where the heel is narrower than the forefoot, I get stuck with too tight on front, blisters in back, or vice versa.

Jay-Z said it best: 72 sizes and my feet ain't one.

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #249 on: April 20, 2016, 21:59:40 »
Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?
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