Author Topic: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018  (Read 256978 times)

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Offline MCG

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #100 on: June 23, 2011, 09:31:03 »
CFSM 3-13G-002 para 5 still states:
Quote
If after being fitted IAW Measuring and fitting of footwear (3-13G-003) an individual is found to have a foot size, which does not fall within the range of standard catalogue footwear sizes and does not require orthopaedic footwear, the individual will be provided with special size footwear. B/W/S are responsible to fund these requirements through their Command allotments. All special size boots are free issue to all Regular and Reserve force members. Supply sections shall ensure the member receives footwear that fits properly and that meets performance and quality standards equivalent to the authorized CF footwear to which the member is entitled as defined in the applicable scales of issue. Special size safety footwear must meet the safety standards of the regulation footwear. Supply sections are under no obligation to procure brand name footwear.
However, it should be noted that nowhere is there a specifically stated entitlement to LPO boots.  The CF supply system gets to decide the mechanism through which these boots are gotten and the CoC, from ADM (Mat) nationally anywhere down to the local base, could decide that LPO will not be used without an operational requirement.

If you have been getting on without the boots for years, you can probably get by a few more months without them.  However, if you have an urgent requirement then supply would have an obligation to seek the more expedient means of acquisition.  Expect that your CoC may have to justify the urgency of your requirement if you want to push this route.

Offline Occam

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #101 on: June 23, 2011, 10:19:36 »
CFSM 3-13G-002 para 5 still states:However, it should be noted that nowhere is there a specifically stated entitlement to LPO boots.  The CF supply system gets to decide the mechanism through which these boots are gotten and the CoC, from ADM (Mat) nationally anywhere down to the local base, could decide that LPO will not be used without an operational requirement.

If you have been getting on without the boots for years, you can probably get by a few more months without them.  However, if you have an urgent requirement then supply would have an obligation to seek the more expedient means of acquisition.  Expect that your CoC may have to justify the urgency of your requirement if you want to push this route.

It's looking like that's the way they're playing now.  Apparently DSSPM has decreed that COTS boots are no longer authorized (nationally), and that a contract(s) has been let for manufacture.  Cost nor looks are the mitigating factor behind this, but the wellbeing of the individual and the fact that the boot needs to be identical to the stocked boot are the driving factors.

One could argue that there isn't an "operational" (read: urgent) need for the boot, but it could also be argued that year-round wear of the CWWB should be the exception rather than the rule when there is a suitable COTS replacement.  My Temperate WWB will arrive just in time for...Cold WWB season.   >:(

Offline Old Log Dog

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #102 on: July 13, 2011, 06:23:38 »
"which by the much more comfy then the good old mark III":) good luck

FYI information there are very few pair of Mark III in the system and are no longer available for order through the system.  Our current boots come in 72 sizes (that's right 72) and while i agree there are some soldiers I say again SOME who legitimately in need of special size footwear.  I firmly believe that now we can accommodate the vast majority of people, including the people who have flat , and wide feet as these boots also accommodate orthodics. 

Offline hotei

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #103 on: July 27, 2011, 21:01:49 »
I will be honest in this, I truly do not have a problem with the Mk IIIs, and I have wide and flat feet. That being said, I was issued the Mk IVs, and I absolutely despise them. They leak water (and I am not the only one to make that comment), they do not suppose my feet, but they do offer me more than enough room. I will be honest, I have tried a number of different gucci boots (Magnums, SWATs, Danners) and have found the Danners (Ft. Lewis) to be the most comfortable.

Offline Hammer Sandwich

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #104 on: July 27, 2011, 23:48:29 »
Jeezum Christie.....I take  a size 15 shoe, and even I was accommodated in the "black boots-nearly unpolishable-(1)".

I was told that there were no WWB for me when my toes stuck out beyond the "shoe-fitting-dealie".
So they sent me somewhere else to get "cold weather" boots. (Toolbox, or some other strange name).

No biggie, if your boots don't fit, you'll be assigned new ones. (I was never issued CHIT, just footwear)
Yeah, it's kind a pain in the butt to explain it ad nauseum, but if you have big/strange/freaky-***-feet....then there's nothing they can do.

"OK, MCpl, or PO, " or whatever....I'll take my boots/shoes off....
"What now, MCpl?/PO?"

Just a bitter 2 cents.

HS


« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 10:30:09 by Hammer Sandwich »
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Offline Tango18A

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2011, 00:37:53 »
Been there and got the Frankenstein boots to prove it. Not too happy with the process.

Offline Hammer Sandwich

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #106 on: July 28, 2011, 01:06:25 »
....got the Frankenstein boots to prove it....

I feel your pain.
No one has Love for the Big-Footed.
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Offline Tango18A

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #107 on: July 28, 2011, 08:39:35 »
Especially the footwear manufacturers of the world.  :-[

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #108 on: April 06, 2013, 14:19:59 »
So to resurrect this thread a bit (its a sticky so is it really a necro?): Does anyone know offhand how long a member should expect to wait for custom-sized boots? I'm not an off-the-shelf fit, and was placed in the queue to receive custom boots in Aug 2012. Kingston still doesn't have a contract for this, and I'm stuck using my one pair of SWATs (my own purchase), which isn't that big of a deal in Garrison. I went in to Clothing the other day, and they still don't have a contract to size and supply these boots, and they have over 400 people waiting. Is clothing required to LPO me boots if the wait is too long? Especially if I get tagged for Maple Resolve, I don't want to go to the field with only 1 pair of non-waterproof boots.

Offline Sparkplugs

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #109 on: June 24, 2013, 21:10:11 »
So to resurrect this thread a bit (its a sticky so is it really a necro?): Does anyone know offhand how long a member should expect to wait for custom-sized boots? I'm not an off-the-shelf fit, and was placed in the queue to receive custom boots in Aug 2012. Kingston still doesn't have a contract for this, and I'm stuck using my one pair of SWATs (my own purchase), which isn't that big of a deal in Garrison. I went in to Clothing the other day, and they still don't have a contract to size and supply these boots, and they have over 400 people waiting. Is clothing required to LPO me boots if the wait is too long? Especially if I get tagged for Maple Resolve, I don't want to go to the field with only 1 pair of non-waterproof boots.

Sorry I can't help with Kingston-specific questions, but the dude that used to do the Trenton custom boots is gone for who knows how long, so they're in the same boat as you guys, it sounds like. I had custom boots done up with foot molding, fitting all that business, start to finish, for 2 pairs of black steeltoes, and 2 pairs of desert steeltoes, was just over two years. That was over 2009-2010. They were crap. Fell apart the first week I wore them. I was in KAF by then, so I just bought myself some tan boots that fit at the German PX and all was well with the world.

I recently went back to supply to ask about more boots, because mine don't fit any more. (As a side note, did you know that your feet can grow an entire size during pregnancy and then STAY THAT WAY FOREVER? Yeah me neither. The more you know.) Anyway. The boot lady at supply let me know that they stopped using the custom dude because it was like $1200 per pair, and they consistently fell apart. SO she said their first line of action for those of us with weird/misshapen/silly feet, was to send us to a relatively local boot store, try some on, and get that store to send an estimate for the boots you fit properly, to supply, who will then send money, order the boots, and you pick them up at supply.

So long reply short, if I were you, I'd go back to supply, tell them you need boots that fit, and what they would recommend you do. In my case, the boots were literally tearing my feet open and making them bleed, so they didn't have much of a choice, they had to find some that worked. (Another side note, it is extremely difficult to find a size 6.5 womens, bigger than EEE width boot.) Supply would much rather dish out a couple hundred bucks for LPO boots than for custom fit ones, at greater than $1200 a pop. So I would ask again about that.

And if you want to PM me, feel free. I've been dealing with boot issues for the past 7 years.  :blotto:
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #110 on: June 24, 2013, 21:14:12 »
And if you want to PM me, feel free. I've been dealing with boot issues for the past 7 years.  :blotto:

The Clothing Spvr has actually been sending update emails, expecting a contract award and appts to start this month. I'll give them until after block leave, and ask again. I could care less what boots I get, as long as they fit and don't destroy my feet. Never had a sizing issue with Mk3 boots, but with the GPs and on its been horrible.

Offline Sparkplugs

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #111 on: June 25, 2013, 06:54:53 »
The Clothing Spvr has actually been sending update emails, expecting a contract award and appts to start this month. I'll give them until after block leave, and ask again. I could care less what boots I get, as long as they fit and don't destroy my feet. Never had a sizing issue with Mk3 boots, but with the GPs and on its been horrible.

The regular GPs I can fit fine, but as soon as you stick the steel toe in there, I'm done for. Frustrating!
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Offline X_para76

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #112 on: September 05, 2013, 19:18:57 »
As long as we're on the topic of boots can anyone tell me if there is anywhere in the dress regs that defines where pants should be bloused in relation to the boots?
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #113 on: September 05, 2013, 19:33:56 »
The Clothing Spvr has actually been sending update emails, expecting a contract award and appts to start this month. I'll give them until after block leave, and ask again. I could care less what boots I get, as long as they fit and don't destroy my feet. Never had a sizing issue with Mk3 boots, but with the GPs and on its been horrible.

Custom Footwear is done via a National Contract (which was allowed to expire) vice a local or regional.  I know that you've already recd that update from Ottawa on expected PWGSC awarding of such (a new custom contract) ...  ergo the 'desert boot' slant.
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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #114 on: September 05, 2013, 20:20:30 »
Custom Footwear is done via a National Contract (which was allowed to expire) vice a local or regional.  I know that you've already recd that update from Ottawa on expected PWGSC awarding of such (a new custom contract) ...  ergo the 'desert boot' slant.

Yeah, I got my desert boots last week. Strangely, they look the same on the outside but the inside doesn't have the massive foam inserts that kept my feet warm in Kabul last year. Must be a different manufacturer. At any rate, these at least fit properly from what I've seen (no rucks yet), however I think I'd be screwed in the fall/spring/winter without my NEOs.

Offline DirtyDog

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2013, 20:30:33 »
And a blood-chilling wail of dispair was heard from generations of The RCR.....    ;D
Been a Loyal Royal for going on 7 years now and never once have I heard a single person (i.e. RSM/SgtMaj types) complain about anyone's boots.  Not once.

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #116 on: October 03, 2013, 09:20:44 »
Quote
Quote from: Journeyman on August 31, 2009, 17:57:24
Really?  It took you FOUR years to come up with that brilliant "oh...oh ya" response?  Good work, Forest.   :not-again:
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Offline DirtyDog

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #117 on: October 04, 2013, 08:58:21 »
Really?  It took you FOUR years to come up with that brilliant "oh...oh ya" response?  Good work, Forest.   :not-again:
Actually buds, I didn't pay any attention to the date of your post.

I had clicked on the thread seeing it had new responses and the first thing I saw was your post which contained a common misconception (to which I responded).

I'm glad it caused you enough distress to feel the need to respond in a negative manner.  Have a life much?

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #118 on: October 04, 2013, 13:07:12 »
Have a life much?
Guess not.
 
But then, I generally don't go back more than 2 years -- 3 years, tops -- to find something to respond to.   :boring:
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Offline DirtyDog

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #119 on: October 04, 2013, 20:45:42 »
Guess not.
 
But then, I generally don't go back more than 2 years -- 3 years, tops -- to find something to respond to.   :boring:
Hardly worth getting into but...

I rarely browse this site all that much.  The thread popped up and I clicked on it and I didn't bother looking at the dates.  Noticed your comment and hence my response.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2015, 05:43:10 »
Bumping an old thread:

Question came up today at work - with the CANEX selling SWAT black and tan boots now, what are the regs (if any) regarding buying those instead of wearing the issued clunkers boots?  Presumably if CANEX is allowed to sell them, then the troops are allowed to buy/wear them...?
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Offline BobSlob

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2015, 08:26:09 »
Bumping an old thread:

Question came up today at work - with the CANEX selling SWAT black and tan boots now, what are the regs (if any) regarding buying those instead of wearing the issued clunkers boots?  Presumably if CANEX is allowed to sell them, then the troops are allowed to buy/wear them...?

The unofficial blessing for the tan ones came from the CoC in these terms when the issue of evading on foot with the issued tan boots was brought forward. "If you want to be comfortable, then spend your own money".

I now, like EVERYONE ELSE, own a set of bought tan boots.

Offline BinRat55

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #122 on: December 04, 2015, 08:48:23 »
Bumping an old thread:

Question came up today at work - with the CANEX selling SWAT black and tan boots now, what are the regs (if any) regarding buying those instead of wearing the issued clunkers boots?  Presumably if CANEX is allowed to sell them, then the troops are allowed to buy/wear them...?

Not quite sure how you came to the conclusion that if the CANEX sells boots, we can wear them. Well, partly true - just not in uniform. Let me expand on that:

The CANEX does not write the dress regs, nor does the CANEX attend the CWO Conference. You are only permitted to wear in uniform what the regs allow, or what your CoC is willing to overlook. Now don't get me wrong - there are many many many soldiers from every rank and trade wearing non-issued boots. If your RSM is ok with you wearing SWATs or Magnums, then sure. BUT... the fact is, by the book, we should not have anything on our feet other than issued boots. And if you have a medical chit, Clothing Stores will LPO you a pair of COTS, bur even then we still have to conform to a certain standard.

The fact that a member of the CAF could even ask the question "If the CANEX sells it, can we wear it?" is just... well.. wow.

Now we have the LOTB. I have been issuing them out for about a month now, and you know what? Just more kit that everyone is bitching about.
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Offline CombatMacgyver

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #123 on: December 04, 2015, 09:55:24 »

The fact that a member of the CAF could even ask the question "If the CANEX sells it, can we wear it?" is just... well.. wow.


I can kind of understand why people think that, given the CANEX is indirectly controlled/owned by DND.

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2015, 09:58:28 »
Bumping an old thread:

Question came up today at work - with the CANEX selling SWAT black and tan boots now, what are the regs (if any) regarding buying those instead of wearing the issued clunkers boots?  Presumably if CANEX is allowed to sell them, then the troops are allowed to buy/wear them...?

This whole RCAF boot clusterf**k was an extended point during morning prayers just this past week.  Summary:

1.  To wear non-issued boots, at this time you are required (supposed to have...) either LPO type boots issued to you thru Supply, or  a chit from a MO saying member is auth to wear non-issued boots.  The Medical Chit part could very well be disappearing according to the Sqn Exec;  however I don't know how anyone is going to tell a MO they can't issue a chit to a mbr they think would benefit from it medically.  But that was the word we got.  For the time being, people with medical chits are providing a copy to the SCWO.  People like me with issued LPOs carry on as per.  All others are expected to be wearing the issued ones, however I haven't seen anyone going around 'looking' at this point.

2.  Specifically the RCAF "desert safety boot" was discussed;  I realize it's proper name is the desert combat boot but I don't see it as anything close to a combat boot.  It's a big heavy tan piece of crap boot for aircrew who have to consider the 'I ended up on the ground' aspect of our game.  There have been UCRs submitted on it from theatre;  one of the recommendations in the UCR was to include the Army Hot Weather boot to the LRP Aircrew SOI.  This was initially accepted, with the suggested SOI 1 pr safety, 1 pr Army Hot Weather for the current theatre SOI.  I was told the Div shut that down, which I think is BS.  Deck commando's need to listen to the folks in theatre and when you have LCols and everyone on down saying "this is a POS piece of kit!", you need to damn well listen.  I am aware of some Hazard Rep's going in on these boots in particular WRT rudder ability.

During that morning brief, the UCR process was also covered.  Where to find the site on the DWAN/DIN (ucrs.mil.ca IIRC), etc and how important it is for individual UCRs to be submitted and to not just say "these boots suck!".  Specificity and detail are important.

/Rant point on

The briefer then went on with the "if you aren't wearing issued kit, the CAF and Veterans Affairs will not cover you".  This is, to my knowledge, pure and utter BULLSHIT.  I was injured on a jump on Basic Para back in in '92.  I filed my papers with DVA in the fall of 2005.  Never once was I questioned if I was wearing issued boots, gloves, helmet or any of that crap.  2 main questions were (1) did this happen during military time and (2) was it related to the performance of a military duty.

/Rant point off

PPE, sure I get it.  It's been tested and meets with the CAF requirements.  Boots - if you require CSA grade 1 against a bonafide job requirement, great!  The Sono Ref Manual states "all personnel handling search stores SHALL wear safety footwear".  Makes sense.  The issued boots are not the 'only CSA grade 1s' out there.

Where the RCAF has gone off the tracks, IMO is with the "ALL RCAF pers shall wear safety footwear".  Not everyone in the RCAF needs safety toe.  This is about MONEY as far as I'm concerned; they went out and bought a shitload of stuff under the CEMS project and while some of it was great (ACE flying gear as an example) the boots didn't quite meet the mark but they have them sitting in the supply depot and lots of people would rather go to Shoeme.ca and get a decent pair of Magnums or something instead of the Mr Heavyfoot issued Temp and CWW boots.  They weight in at just over 5lbs for a size 10.  My LPO Magnums (also CSA grade 1) are about 1lb a pair.

What is the difference?  Price.  I was told the issued RCAF boots, made by Terra IIRC are about $80/pr.  My LPOs, which are composite vice steel, are about $200.  AND...not made in Canada.   :Tin-Foil-Hat:

The CEMS project (Clothing and Equipment Millennium Standard; the RCAF version of the army Clothe The Soldier project) produced some very improved kit, and added some kit that wasn't available to airmen/women/aviators prior to its work.   However, now that it is 'over', there seems to be any reluctance to accept 'some of the kit fell short and this has been demonstrated ON OPERATIONS' comments from those who are flying desks now.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 14:40:37 by Eye In The Sky »
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