Author Topic: Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves  (Read 1244864 times)

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Online FJAG

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Amazon Canada does not have the ability to do printing of paperback books yet (These things are printed on-demand as they're ordered)

Amazon.com will be returning to delivering to Canada once this whole Covid thing is over but it's anyone's guess when that will be.

You can get the Kindle version from either Amazon.com or Amazon.ca

https://www.amazon.ca/Unsustainable-At-Any-Price-Canadian-ebook/dp/B086HXC66Q

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Offline GK .Dundas

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Ordered through Amazon.ca  paperback arriving May.1.
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Online FJAG

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Well. I learned a new thing today. Bit slower though. I usually get my copies through Amazon.com within two weeks but still--that's pretty godd. Too bad CA still doesn't have an Author's Page that aggregates all you books though. They do in the US, UK, France, Germany, Japan.

Thanks for the order. Hope you enjoy it.

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« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 14:26:40 by FJAG »
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stellarpanther

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You are indeed correct, we are likely to fail this, not necessarily because we dont have enough bodies to throw at the problem,but because we do not have enough trained bodies to effectively handle the situation. Bloggins from the infantry can easily handle say helping deliver supplies to a remove community, but what about techs, cooks, etc to keep the battle group going? even the reg force is hurting there last i saw.

This is the perfect example for this question my wife recently asked who isn't in the CAF.  I didn't have an answer.  What is the point in actively trying to recruit people into the Reserves or even Reg F if they go untrained for years.  My son for example has been in the Reserves  for about 2 years and only has his BMQ and BMQ-L, years ago when I was a Reservist we did weekend courses to get people trade qualified, not much of that anymore.  Even if this pandemic wouldn't have occurred, he was already told he wouldn't be getting his trade qual this summer because others have been waiting longer than him.  Why can't units run some of these courses like the old days?

Offline Lumber

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This is the perfect example for this question my wife recently asked who isn't in the CAF.  I didn't have an answer.  What is the point in actively trying to recruit people into the Reserves or even Reg F if they go untrained for years.  My son for example has been in the Reserves  for about 2 years and only has his BMQ and BMQ-L, years ago when I was a Reservist we did weekend courses to get people trade qualified, not much of that anymore.  Even if this pandemic wouldn't have occurred, he was already told he wouldn't be getting his trade qual this summer because others have been waiting longer than him.  Why can't units run some of these courses like the old days?

A member of the reserve unit I worked at was a Leading Seaman for almost 20 years because he could never get away from his job long enough to complete PLQ and QL5.

Not all courses CAN be conducted in-house on weekends. Some require specialist equipment and instructors. How are you going to teach a jr boatswain boat driving skills in the prairies?
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stellarpanther

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A member of the reserve unit I worked at was a Leading Seaman for almost 20 years because he could never get away from his job long enough to complete PLQ and QL5.
If people can't get away from their regular job, they shouldn't join.  Becoming a MCpl or MS isn't a requirement do I wouldn't worry about the PLQ but QL5 has to be done.  They should have a time limit to get it.  My concern though is even if someone is making themselves available during the summer, they often don't have enough instructors so people go unqualified for years.  I assume people join because they want to do a specific job.  In the Reg Force people end up quitting because they get stuck on PAT Platoon's for too long and get tired of just sitting around.  They should have it set up so you go from Basic to your trade course with a short period of rest in between.
 

Offline daftandbarmy

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If they knew that in advance, sure.  But, how many people know for certain what the next 20 years will be like in terms of job situation and time off?

Exactly.  :nod:

On the upside, as an Adm Coy OC I had three (very senior) Cpls, who were all fully employed with civilian logistics/ long haul firms, who were 100% reliable when it came to moving troops and kit on time, safely, for most exercises. Because of their jobs, none of them could take the 3 or 4 months off required for their next career course with the CAF, because the CAF course had no ability to adapt to a reservist with a full time job, and they were fine with that as was I.
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stellarpanther

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If they knew that in advance, sure.  But, how many people know for certain what the next 20 years will be like in terms of job situation and time off?

I understand that and it's good that people want to join and continue to serve,but there needs to be a point that mbr's realize that they just won't be able to meet that commitment despite the best of intentions.  That's what got me to release from the Res.  If we're going to depend on the reserves as we have in the past few years (floods come to mind) maybe the government needs to pass legislation that guarantees the right to time off for mandatory training. The civilian sector would push back though I'm sure.
 

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Why can't units run some of these courses like the old days?

Because Reservists wanted equivalent training to the RegF. That means providing a condensed version of the training at the appropriate school. I mean, we could go to 5 different versions of the Basket Weaver QL5, but then the (now slower than molasses in the Winter) CT process would involved a lot of ranks being lost and hurt feelings. As an example, my Father CT'd in the 80s. Was qualified to be a CWO in his trade (was MWO). RegF sent him on his QL5 again and made him a Cpl. Flash forward 20 years, same trade, I CT and keep my rank, all my Quals and was EPZ for Sgt right away (and they gave me a signing bonus).

You pick what system is better...

stellarpanther

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Because Reservists wanted equivalent training to the RegF. That means providing a condensed version of the training at the appropriate school. I mean, we could go to 5 different versions of the Basket Weaver QL5, but then the (now slower than molasses in the Winter) CT process would involved a lot of ranks being lost and hurt feelings. As an example, my Father CT'd in the 80s. Was qualified to be a CWO in his trade (was MWO). RegF sent him on his QL5 again and made him a Cpl. Flash forward 20 years, same trade, I CT and keep my rank, all my Quals and was EPZ for Sgt right away (and they gave me a signing bonus).

You pick what system is better...

I don't have a good answer but something needs to be done. What's the point in actively recruiting people if it takes years to get them trained?

Offline Blackadder1916

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I think this issue has been discussed (and badly argued by people like me) elsewhere too. Can anyone help with a link?

Then we can get back to the Covid thing....

Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves  all 143 pages and counting
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Offline X Royal

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If people can't get away from their regular job, they shouldn't join.

As long as the government doesn't legally require time off for training this will continue to occur.
Quote
They should have it set up so you go from Basic to your trade course with a short period of rest in between.
Obviously you have no clue on how the reserves actually work.
Many joining the Reserves start when they are students.

stellarpanther

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As long as the government doesn't legally require time off for training this will continue to occur.Obviously you have no clue on how the reserves actually work.
Many joining the Reserves start when they are students.

I know how they don't work and that's the problem I'm trying to point out.  I joined the Reserves in 1988 and did my Basic from Jan-Jun.  In July, when it was still a base we went to London and did part of our training and then went to Meaford for the other part.  We came home at the end of the summer and by July did the equivalent of what is now QL5.  While some courses may be the same as Reg F, not all of them are.  HRA/FSA courses are shorter, MP courses are not the same as what the Ref F does.

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And what about all the reservists who are first responders or health care workers? They could normally get time off for training or for deployment, but are unavailable now because they are more needed where they are.

This problem has been going on longer the last few weeks.  Why stay in if you can't parade or train or make any kind of commitment?  During a conversation I had with the CWO of a unit last summer, he told me that a lot of people view it as a social club and come when they feel like it.


Offline X Royal

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  I joined the Reserves in 1988 and did my Basic from Jan-Jun.
Where did you do your basic course?

Offline reveng

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Someone said it earlier and I agree...let's actually call up the PRes (not voluntary) and see what happens. We will either be pleasantly surprised or it will be an epic fail and we can go from there.

If not now, when?

Offline MilEME09

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Someone said it earlier and I agree...let's actually call up the PRes (not voluntary) and see what happens. We will either be pleasantly surprised or it will be an epic fail and we can go from there.

If not now, when?

Two weeks after never I will guess, in our risk adverse culture, no ones going to make a bold move that could fail. Really even this might fail, PRes may have bodies but do they have enough qualified bodies, or are they all Pat's?
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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I know how they don't work and that's the problem I'm trying to point out.  I joined the Reserves in 1988 and did my Basic from Jan-Jun.  In July, when it was still a base we went to London and did part of our training and then went to Meaford for the other part.  We came home at the end of the summer and by July did the equivalent of what is now QL5.  While some courses may be the same as Reg F, not all of them are.  HRA/FSA courses are shorter, MP courses are not the same as what the Ref F does.

HRA courses now take place over 2 summers (unless a reservist can land a RegF course, but that’s really rare).

There are others who can offer further detail and I’m pretty sure it’s been talked about on the MP boards anyway, but from my (limited) understanding, a PRes MP and a RegF MP’s training is different because the scope of their jobs is very different.
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Offline X Royal

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Someone said it earlier and I agree...let's actually call up the PRes (not voluntary) and see what happens. We will either be pleasantly surprised or it will be an epic fail and we can go from there.

If not now, when?
There is no basis in law currently for a mandatory call up.
Nor do I see the laws changing it.

stellarpanther

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It's interesting to see which off topic posts are moved and which aren't.

Since your post isn't related to the topic we could start with that one or we can just move on.


stellarpanther

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Someone said it earlier and I agree...let's actually call up the PRes (not voluntary) and see what happens. We will either be pleasantly surprised or it will be an epic fail and we can go from there.

If not now, when?

As someone else mentioned, some of the mbr's in the Reserves are First Responders and medical workers, by calling people up just to see and to have them sitting around and potentially spreading it to each others wouldn't make sense.  Hopefully there's never a time to call them up. I don't think any authority exist to do this as an exercise.

 

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Offline X Royal

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Windsor
Windsor or Ipperwash. To the best of my knowledge all basic weekend courses during those times were done in Ipperwash for units in London Militia District.

stellarpanther

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Windsor or Ipperwash. To the best of my knowledge all basic weekend courses during those times were done in Ipperwash for units in London Militia District.

It was out of the armoury.  We came to work around 0800-1600, went home and came back Sunday morning.  We went to Ipperwash to throw grenades and to the range, we also used the range at Cedar Springs.  Our unit ran their own basic, some other units combined with London and Sarnia. 

Offline Brihard

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If people can't get away from their regular job, they shouldn't join.  Becoming a MCpl or MS isn't a requirement do I wouldn't worry about the PLQ but QL5 has to be done.  They should have a time limit to get it.  My concern though is even if someone is making themselves available during the summer, they often don't have enough instructors so people go unqualified for years.  I assume people join because they want to do a specific job.  In the Reg Force people end up quitting because they get stuck on PAT Platoon's for too long and get tired of just sitting around.  They should have it set up so you go from Basic to your trade course with a short period of rest in between.

You are aware that most of us join in high school or post secondary? And that most of a unit's leadership is built around people who have full time jobs, families, etc, but who do their best to continue contributing to their unit as best their able to once they graduate and enter into full time careers? Thinking of the sections I commanded before I got out, I had troops who were students, then became  engineers, accountants, lawyers, tradespersons, government office workers, firefighters, police officers, medical profesionals... A number did their best to stick it out, often resulting in some years of reduced activity in the busy early years of junior professional career work. The handful that stick it out long term end up being your senior NCOs and Officers outside of the permanent Cl B guys.

The life circumstances of a recruit generally do not stay the same, and the personal and professional responsibilities pile up. Quite frankly you seem hell bent on appearing to habe an informed opinion on the service availability of present day reservists based on your time in the mo' several decades ago. I'm not sure that you do.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 20:49:33 by Brihard »
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