Author Topic: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]  (Read 456533 times)

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Offline BunnyFooFoo

    TD in Cold Lake for Flag. .

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #575 on: March 20, 2010, 23:27:10 »
Do you know where you're going yet? When is your course grad date? Feel free to PM me and I will let you know a little more if I can...  From what I have personally experienced, every Wing does it a little differently.  First you have to do a Distance Learning package, then spend time in either your Tower (for VFR)  or Terminal (for IFR), or whatever Weapons does (I have no idea) absorbing knowledge, then you go on to NavCan in Cornwall.

As for courses, I know people going to Cornwall in September and people not going until next year; it depends on your course, I guess.  BTW, get used to marching again...

I'm pretty sure there are WAY better answers than mine on this site somewhere... use the search function is the best advice I can give you; I know when I was looking I found some awesome info.

 


"Pain is nothing. Pain is in the mind. If you can walk you can run." - Cam Neely

Offline vroom

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #576 on: March 21, 2010, 12:31:16 »
Is the training for AEC and AC OP at the same location?

Is CFASCO co-located with NAV Canada?

Offline TimBit

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #577 on: March 21, 2010, 16:13:58 »
I hate to use that line (I sound old and grumpy), but clearly you have not used the search function. Those questions have been answered in at least two or three threads I can think of.

But Yes. and Yes.

Next time use search.

Offline Formulasteel

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #578 on: March 22, 2010, 16:01:14 »
I graduated Basic in December 09. Going Weapons, and wont be going on course in Cornwall till January 2011. If you're going weapons, get ready to wait!

Offline srhodes

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #579 on: March 24, 2010, 22:01:50 »
Formulasteel:

Ok, how do you know you are going weapons before you’ve even set foot in Cornwall at the NavCanada facility?  Don’t you do the course in Cornwall, and THEN decide (or have your instructors decide based on your in-class performance)?

Waiting 1 YEAR from time of BMOQ to Cornwall seems a bit much.  Why don’t they send you for 2nd language training during this period of time?  Seems like just the right amount of time to learn a 2nd language if done intensive.

PapaJohn:

I think OJE is on-the-job training, right?  Ok, so how do you do on-the-job training when you haven’t had your trade training?  How could a doctor or lawyer do their “on-the-job” training (i.e. residency and articling) if they haven’t gone to medical school or law school first?  I don’t understand how you do on-the-job training without first doing the in-class component in Cornwall, ON.   

Thanks….

Offline darknesss

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #580 on: March 25, 2010, 10:47:09 »
I searched every single thread after typing ac op, and found nothing of the sort. Could you be so kind as to post a link proving me wrong?

Offline TimBit

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #581 on: March 25, 2010, 10:57:58 »

Offline TimBit

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #582 on: March 25, 2010, 11:38:20 »
Formulasteel:

Ok, how do you know you are going weapons before you’ve even set foot in Cornwall at the NavCanada facility?  Don’t you do the course in Cornwall, and THEN decide (or have your instructors decide based on your in-class performance)?

I'm no expert, but here: AF Trg assigns streams after BMOQ. Based on which you are loaded on one of three courses in Cornwall. Any other info (presumably from CFRC) was incorrect.

Quote
Waiting 1 YEAR from time of BMOQ to Cornwall seems a bit much.  Why don’t they send you for 2nd language training during this period of time?  Seems like just the right amount of time to learn a 2nd language if done intensive.

As an anglo going AEC you don't need french until Major. Since you may never get there, why spend the $$$? That is the thinking. Yes it is a bit long, but currently nothing compared to some other trades i.e. int 2-3 yrs and pilot 3-4 yrs. During that time you will do meaningless tasks and OJE...

Quote
PapaJohn:

I think OJE is on-the-job training, right?  Ok, so how do you do on-the-job training when you haven’t had your trade training?  How could a doctor or lawyer do their “on-the-job” training (i.e. residency and articling) if they haven’t gone to medical school or law school first?  I don’t understand how you do on-the-job training without first doing the in-class component in Cornwall, ON.   

Thanks….

OJE is NOT like residency. Military is not like law or medicine. Where do you get that idea from???

OJE means observing squadron life, the job, practicing some skills so you have better chances at passing the course and then are functional earlier when you get to your unit. It's also about killing time b/w courses. What else do you suggest? E.I.?

Offline Formulasteel

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #583 on: March 25, 2010, 11:47:56 »
The first day I showed up at my base, my Captain asked me what stream I wanted to go. I said Weapons, and at the end of the day he said, alright you got Weapons, and you're probably going to course next January. Now since Im at a base that doesnt do Weapons, I am doing Electronic Wafare, a couple OPME's and DL courses till I leave. There are 4 guys here waiting to go Weapons. We spend our days studying, and waiting.

Offline TimBit

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #584 on: March 25, 2010, 12:03:27 »
May I ask where your base is?

Offline darknesss

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #585 on: March 25, 2010, 13:40:48 »
 I was well aware of this websites existence, and i thank you for sending a link to it.  Kind of pretentious of you though to accuse me of not using the search function when you can't even back up your accusations with a solid link that actually explains my question, and well you can read everything on that link and it still fails to explain my question.  Furthermore, your link was not even a topic on this forum!  For future reference, it would be nice of you to avoid accusations of not using the search function, when you cant even back up the question a person may have with previous information from the forum, no need for you to be "that guy".

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #586 on: March 25, 2010, 14:02:25 »
darkness, not that it really matters, but I think TimBit's response about not using the search function was aimed at vroom, and not at you.
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving".
~ Lao Tzu~

Offline sinistersuperspy

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #587 on: March 25, 2010, 14:05:06 »
The training path for an ac op is as such - your first phase includes entry level training in both weapons and traffic. From that course, conducted over a 3-4 month period at CFSACO, you will be posted into either side, to an appropriate base. (ie: Weapons - North Bay/Traffic - Trenton, Comox, Moose Jaw etc). For someone who is posted into a Terminal Data position, the next step *might* be the PAR Controller course, or for the Tower Data person, the Ground Controller course. It all depends on where you are and what the Career Mgr has planned.

Not too sure about what happens next for a Weapons person, as I am not that familiar with that side of the trade.

I am unsure of the difference to which you asking about, but that is how it is done once you are thru basic and posted to a base awaiting your first phase of training.

By all means, anyone is welcome to jump in and correct me.
So long, and thanks for all the fish,

"What a man thinks of himself,that is what determines,
or rather indicates his fate"

Henry David Thoreau, "Walden, or Life in the Woods", 1847

Offline darknesss

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #588 on: March 25, 2010, 14:21:37 »
 My apology's timbit if moe is correct. Thanks for the good response, seems there is so much variety in this trade. I have been in the infantry for nearly 8 years, and finally got my offer to start course on july 14th. Already have the precourse material memorized, and im now going through the VFR, IFR notes, although i think its for the AES course? I was hoping to go to the air defense side of the trade, but my wife is a traffic tech, and we want to be posted together. Judging by the notes i have studies, it appears the air traffic side offers a much broader spectrum of postings. What is the course difficulty like. I have people telling me that it has an 80% failure rate, and i have ppl telling me that they drank every night, and didnt open a book and made it through no problem.

Offline sinistersuperspy

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #589 on: March 25, 2010, 14:37:03 »
Well  - No matter what you hear - if you give it your full effort - there should be no reason not to pass. I know there are a few ex-infantry guys on the AC op course right now doing just fine, balancing down time with crunch time.  At the end of the day, it's your career course, or second career course, at any rate, so you will have to decide how important it is to you. CFSACO is a very welcoming environment to take a course in, but it is also very easy to fall back into bad habits. Trust me! Personal experience! lol.

In terms of which stream you want, I'm not sure you get much choice. A friend of mine just checked out as a Terminal Data Ac op here in Trenton, and was fortunate to get the stream and posting he wanted. Even for us Officers now, choice is potentially limited, depending upon time and scheduling constraints.  You may not get weapons at first - but it may be possible to switch later.

I will be returning to the IFR course in August, so perhaps I will see you there - we chat over a pint in the Jet Set.

SSS
So long, and thanks for all the fish,

"What a man thinks of himself,that is what determines,
or rather indicates his fate"

Henry David Thoreau, "Walden, or Life in the Woods", 1847

Offline TimBit

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #590 on: March 25, 2010, 16:05:40 »
My apology's timbit if moe is correct. Thanks for the good response, seems there is so much variety in this trade. I have been in the infantry for nearly 8 years, and finally got my offer to start course on july 14th. Already have the precourse material memorized, and im now going through the VFR, IFR notes, although i think its for the AES course? I was hoping to go to the air defense side of the trade, but my wife is a traffic tech, and we want to be posted together. Judging by the notes i have studies, it appears the air traffic side offers a much broader spectrum of postings. What is the course difficulty like. I have people telling me that it has an 80% failure rate, and i have ppl telling me that they drank every night, and didnt open a book and made it through no problem.

Yes sorry I was responding to vroom!  :blotto: No YOUR question was a good one... Did you see the link to the occupational specialty? It would  tend to support your idea about the weapon/traffic split.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 16:10:12 by TimBit »

Offline darknesss

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #591 on: March 25, 2010, 17:49:30 »
No, i didnt. I printed all the notes for the IFR, VFR portion. I think its intended for the officers course, but still an interesting read, ill check out the weapons portion tom. Trying to learn as much as i can about the trade before i start OJT in a couple of weeks. Dont want to waste anyones time by knowing nothing once ojt starts. As much pride as i have wearing the RCR capbadge, it will be really nice to start wearing blues even if ill go back to wearing the cornflake. Is there any ac ops here that can refer me to some material i can study before going on course? Already have the precourse package memorized, have the weather manual, and reading over the IFR, VFR, and the 13 wing sabre routine orders. As of now though, most of the QL5 notes are still chinese to me.

Offline srhodes

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #592 on: March 28, 2010, 23:59:10 »
Thank you for the replies.
In regards to the french, doesn’t knowing how to speak the 2nd official language indeed help you in attaining the rank of Major?  Just been hearing different stuff in regards to 2nd language training for CF officers (some getting to it very early on and others later).  I think it’s a safe bet to assume that newly minted francophone officers get the english course right away, so why wouldn’t anglo officers get the same courtesy for  the french training considering that 2nd language fluency is an important factor that does help get you promoted to senior level positions in what is a designated bilingual institution.   

Yes, military is different, but the point I was trying to make in regards to the medicine/law thing is that I’ve never heard of getting ‘on-the-job’ training without first receiving some foundational instruction related to the specific job  FIRST.   Listen, certainly better than EI as you suggested, but just seemed strange to me.  That’s all.  And a bit discouraging to think that it could be 2 years before you even begin to start training/learning about what sparked your interest in the CF to begin with.

Thank you….



Offline prontogryphon

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #593 on: March 31, 2010, 08:49:16 »
Hey everyone! I finally got my CT into the AC OP trade, and should be starting my 3's in about a month! can't wait..

I had one small question (and i've read all of the threads about AC OP, but I may have missed the answer) I wanted to know: for the PAR side of the trade, are people selected at random, on a volunteer basis, or based on operational requirements at the time? I realize I probably have a few years before I actually go on my 5's, but some information would be helpful...

tThanks for all the info that's been put on the site already.. I can't wait to actually start to work!!  :salute:

Offline formerguard

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #594 on: April 02, 2010, 01:03:51 »
@srhodes

You are correct, in that a good second language profile may be worth up to 5 points (of 100) when you get to a point where your file goes before a promotion board.  It wasn't that long ago that second language training (SLT) was completed immediately after BOTP, so those who hadn't previously tested or tested out would stay up to 9 additional months in St. Jean in order to achieve a B profile.  I believe this changed around late 06, after I went through, and that the only people sticking around for SLT after basic are the pilots, due to significant training delays (this may have changed).  I didn't go to RMC, but I'm pretty sure that SLT is still a part of their programme as well.

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that new francophone officers are given preferential slots for language training.  In any case, you don't even enter your expected promotion zone (when your file may go to the board) until 4 years after making Captain, so if you want to work on your language skills, you have time.  Many bases offer language training on location, so once you're posted you can ask your chain of command to get you on one of these courses.  They also have 10 week SLT courses in St. Jean, as well as online/computer resources (like Rosetta Stone) that could be viable options.


Offline formerguard

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #595 on: April 02, 2010, 01:11:02 »
@Old Guy

You're right, our controllers are officers, with the exception of Precision Approach Radar (PAR) controllers, which is an enlisted sub-specification. 

A big difference between our structure and yours (USAF) is that our occupation ended up merging ATC with what you guys refer to as ABMs (air battle managers - the airborne command and control folks you mentioned).

Cheers!

Offline Frax

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #596 on: April 03, 2010, 22:03:18 »
I am currently doing my BMOQ at Saint-Jean and I'm francophone. I need to reach the CBB level in English in order to leave Saint-Jean after my BMOQ. If I don't, I'll spend some more time at the Mega on SLT. Yuk! I got E and C at the written exams but I'm still waiting for the result of my oral evaluation.
Two weeks ago, they asked us to give our preferences for OJT posting after the BMOQ. I put 1) Shearwater, 2) Cold Lake and 3) Trenton, but I'm afraid I might be posted to Bagotville just because I'm francophone. I heard that you don't usually get to Shearwater as a first posting, but I'd really like to go at Cold Lake too. More exotic to me than Bagotville... I can't wait to know where I'm going!

Offline Formulasteel

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #597 on: April 06, 2010, 12:46:34 »
I'm in Moose Jaw right now. And it wasn't one of my choices. But now that I'm here, I love it. From what I hear the single shacks here are the best in the whole CF. Where ever you wind up for OJT, you're there for a short time, so enjoy it.

Offline TimBit

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #598 on: April 06, 2010, 14:39:56 »
Are you ? (there for a short time) How long 'til you go on your course?

Offline Formulasteel

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #599 on: April 07, 2010, 15:34:00 »
It'll either be September or January when I start in Cornwall