Author Topic: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]  (Read 320745 times)

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TrasnAt

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Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« on: October 13, 2004, 08:19:46 »
Hi all,

I am a dual national and I am at present debating my future between a career with the Royal Navy or in the CF, most likely as an Aerospace controller.   I have a PPL and done post graduate work in Aviation so I have knowledge of how ATC works from a civilian stand point. I was just wondering what how it differs in the military.   I have heard that it is a "nice management job" I have also heard that it can be quite boring and conversely I have also heard it can be quite stressful.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Transat.

Offline Ditch

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2004, 17:34:53 »
AEC is a very challenging trade in the CF.  Wash out rates are almost as high as the Pilot MOC.

I imagine that all jobs can be boring with times of sheer terror inter-mixed throughout.

Military ATC is quite different than that of the civilian world.  We can do alot of things at an airfield that the average civi-pilot can't and we expect our controllers to be able to adapt to our changing needs.  Unlike a structured time table that exists at larger civilian aerodromes, CF airfields are on a ever-changing tempo with a varied number of "pop-ups" and visits by unscheduled aircraft.

Go for it if you are looking for a challenging and rewarding job.
Per Ardua Ad Astra

TrasnAt

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2004, 19:32:08 »
Thanks a lot for the info. 

Just one question: does wash-out mean failure or burnout?


TrasnAt

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2004, 20:04:16 »
Oh sorry actually blew the dust off my dictionary and learned it means "a complete failure"

Offline Spartan

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2004, 23:35:14 »
What would you say are the most important attributes in a candidate for this MOC?
This is something that I am interested in as a career after school.
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Offline Inch

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2004, 23:44:20 »
I'd say spatial orientation would be a big plus. You've got to keep track of where aircraft are in the Control zone and sometimes beyond, all the while they're moving at 100+ knots. Then you throw helicopters into the mix, helos don't fly circuits/patterns the same as airplanes, we can go anywhere. So you're going to get a whole lot of different requests and keeping track of them all is pretty important. I think it goes without saying, two aircraft can't occupy the same spot at the same time, they tend to hit each other.  :o

 
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aesop081

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2004, 00:35:31 »
The expression used her at the AESOp school is "being able to walk and chew gum at the same time".......i think it applies to AC op / AEC quite well.

Offline Ditch

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2004, 00:36:43 »
What would you say are the most important attributes in a candidate for this MOC?

Just to add to what Inch said....   Situational Awareness is key to the AEC MOC - the lack of SA can and will kill aircrew.   The simple task of keeping track of aircraft flying the VFR circuit along with aircraft on an instrument approach can be very challenging indeed.   Moose Jaw is one of the hardest airbases in which to get checked out - at times there can be up to 10 aircraft in the pattern - all travelling at 220 KIAS - all wanting to land.   I can remember being sequenced by tower as number 6 for landing - this did not include the others behind me on downwind and crosswind!   Albeit technology does help the operator - you still have to be a quick thinker and make decisive and safe decisions.

Practice speaking CLEARLY and RAPIDLY at the same time.
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Offline Garry

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2004, 12:23:00 »
TrasnAT,

As with much of life, the job appeals to certain types of individuals, with different reactions to the stresses and demands. Keep in mind that there is no such thing as an air traffic controller anymore, the trade has merged with the (old) air weapons control trade to form the (new) aerospace control trade. As a newbie coming through the training system you will be taught radar control, (common to both atc and air weapons) then brach off into a specialty- either air weapons, atc terminal/arrival, or atc tower. As usual, your requested job placement will be weighed against the needs of the service.

If you go air weapons, you will probably spend your first tour in North bay- after that, the world is your oyster and you can stay put, get posted in Canada, or go most anywhere that NATO and the US fly. Ground tours as well as AWACS are open to you.

Ifr you go the atc route, then there are a  variety of bases open to you, each with their own unique problems and perks. ATC used to be a costant fast paced job, but with all of the cutbacks in airframes and flying hours, it has become a feast or famine position. One minute your bored to tears, the next you have 100 fighters coming home- and that makes up for the boredome!

I cannot say much about the transport bases, as I've been a fighter controller the entire time I've been an atc-oops, aec. :)

I was in the army for many years before I switched over to the Air Force, and in all honesty I'm glad I was- I had the chance to roar around the world, seeing good things and challenging the hail out of myself- and when my body finally broke, I got "put out to pasture"...only to find an incredibly challenging and exciting job, that I could perform fine with a busted up body, and allowed me to spend time with my family.

PM if you want specifics.

Cheers-Garry

169er

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Re: Life as an Aerospace Controller
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2004, 08:36:00 »
Well,

Ive been a 169 for just over 2 years now, not a long time by any means, but i gotta say that the degree of "excitement" is based upon your choices here.   

After 3s in Cornwall at Nav Canada (we have the nicest facility for training in the entire CF, its like living in a hotel for 2 months) you have the availability to be posted as either Air Defense (which means you get to go to NORAD in North Bay as a Tracking Technician or TT) or to ATC as either B-stand, terminal IFR delivery or Wing Ops( at any airbase that actually HAS military aircraft, if theres room... good luck if you wanted comox or trenton).  From there the trade branches out into other areas. 

Air defence side you can get second Quals primarily as:

ID tech- working in conjunction with Navcan to Identify incoming a/c tracked by the TT's
Interface Control - Uplinks and stuff i cant really talk more about.
Weapons- la creme De la creme at 22 Wing, working with controllers, to do CF-18 missions

As ATC- I cant really tell you alot about this other than I know you can get a qual as a ground controller.

Once you hit eligibility for your 5's you have the option yet again... remain 169 as A/D or ATC or go to 170-- Spec pay and possibly one of the most academically challenging and stressful courses you will endure in the air force.

170 is a Radar controller... you either do Precision Approach Radar, or Traffic Control on circuit... I'm not there yet, so I'm not really the guy to tell you about it...

Life in North Bay on the other hand... If you're single, it is fairly boring, but there is enough to do to keep you occupied for a little while, at least until you discover bigger and better things to do with your time off...  Right now, on crew we are on 8 hour shifts... 7 days on, 3 off, 7 on 4 off... the alterate between 3 days 4 swings/mids, and 4 days, 3 swings/mids.

Confused yet?  It takes some getting used to...

All and all, the AD side of the house isn't too bad, you can eventually work as aircrew on E-3 Sentries, in places like alaska or germany, or go to the other NORAD areas like Colorado, or Florida or Washington...

Just be sure you check it all out before you jump in... it takes a long time to get to those places, most require you to be at least a master corporal before you go anywhere now.  So you could be stuck in the Bay for a few years...

ON the bright side, we are moving out of the Underground Complex within the next year or two, as we have a brand spankin new facility going up above ground here on base for us...

All and all, thats about all i can think of for my side of the trade, you'd have to find a guy who went ATC side to get the details on that end...

Hope i was of some  help...

-169er

Offline eliminator

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Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006, 23:23:41 »
Does anyone know if there are opportunities for Aerospace Control Officers? (besides desk jobs)  I heard they just sent some folks to Cornwall at the Aerospace School for some training (FACs?)...Not sure if there were any officers.

The Americans have guys called Combat Controllers, but I cant imagine we'll ever make it to that level. So, can an AEC officer get anything close to "front line" action with the Special Ops Regiment?

Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 20:51:43 »
Does anyone know if there are opportunities for Aerospace Control Officers? (besides desk jobs)  I heard they just sent some folks to Cornwall at the Aerospace School for some training (FACs?)...Not sure if there were any officers.

eliminator - Their are many opportunities for ACOs, most are desk jobs at aero droms but their are other desks to get like desks on ship...or in the air in an AWAC...C130....and so on, but yes just a desk.

FACs no that is for combat arms mainly Artillery Officers (some tankers and Inf) and some pilots who have to drop the stuff. Cornwall is were they train civilian Air Traffic Controllers not FACs and the military positions that do the same task. By the way all FACs are Officers althought senior NCOs are trained the same they are considered FAC assitants.   

The Americans have guys called Combat Controllers, but I cant imagine we'll ever make it to that level. So, can an AEC officer get anything close to "front line" action with the Special Ops Regiment?

eliminator - We are at that level, remuster Artillery officer and you will most likely be a FAC and get to the front line. I would assume the Special Ops Regiment has thier contingent of FACs like everyone else.

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Offline rampage800

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2006, 21:40:47 »
 3rd Horseman

 Sorry dude but I gotta dispel this myth, not all FACs are officers, as a matter of fact there are probably more NCO FACs than there are officers doing it. As for the Arty thing, yea most FACs come from the arty right now but the other Cbt Arms trades are slowly getting some of their guys on crse too, may not be to far from now that maybe FACing becomes a primary job in the CF rather than a secondary task.
 As for the SF guys, I think they're doing their own CAS thing but I think they've adopted the US name for their guys (JTACs)

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2006, 22:27:54 »
rampage,

   If you read my post I did say that some FACs were Snr NCOs. I don't have the latest numbers at my hand but when I departed the CF a few years back and my past jobs as a FAC instructor and FAC SME, I can tell you that their were always more Officers trained to be FACs then Snr NCOs. And that Snr NCOs are now used in the Assistant position not the lead position. As for the non Arty positions yes ever course had positions for FACs from Inf and Tanks but thy were limited as the primary job of the Arty is and was to provide FAC support to the Army. The Artillery school is the lead agency in the Army to teach and to provide FACs. As for the future and a primary roll for full time FACs as a trade into itself I doubt it, it has always been a primary roll of the Arty Officer who was in the fire support position to provide that and I suggest it will remain that way. On the SF guys I don't know but from what my Arty and Air friends tell me Arty Officers and Snr NCOs fill that roll in the SF. The last FAC course I taught on had two SF Snr NCOs gunners on it and they were being trained as FAC assistants.
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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2006, 23:43:15 »
FYI, here's a short video of USAF Combat Controllers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty09I9ZqJ_Q

And some random info:



U.S. Air Force Fact Sheet
COMBAT CONTROLLER
 
 Mission

Air Force Special Operations Command's combat controllers are Battlefield Airmen assigned to special tactics squadrons. They are trained special operations forces and certified Federal Aviation Administration air traffic controllers.

Their mission is to deploy undetected into combat and hostile environments to establish assault zones or airfields, while simultaneously conducting air traffic control, fire support, command and control, direct action, counter-terrorism, foreign internal defense, humanitarian assistance and special reconnaissance in the joint arena.

Combat Control Commandos

Assigned to Air Force Special Operations Command, combat controllers join forces with trained specialists to form highly trained Special Tactics teams. Their motto, "First There," reaffirms the combat controller’s commitment to undertaking the most dangerous missions behind enemy lines by leading the way for other forces to follow.

Training

Combat controllers are among the most highly trained personnel in the U. S. Air Force. They complete the same technical training as all air traffic controllers, and  maintain air traffic control qualification skills throughout their careers.

Many qualify and maintain currency in joint terminal attack control procedures, in addition to other special operations skills.  Their 35-week training and unique mission skills earn them the right to wear the scarlet beret.

• Combat Control Orientation Course, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas
This two-week orientation course focuses on sports physiology, nutrition, basic exercises, combat control history and fundamentals.

• Combat Control Operator Course, Keesler AFB, Miss.
This 15 and a half-week course teaches aircraft recognition and performance, air navigation aids, weather, airport traffic control, flight assistance service, communication procedures, conventional approach control, radar procedures and air traffic rules. This is the same course that all Air Force air traffic controllers attend and is the core skill of a combat controller's job.

• U.S. Army Airborne School, Fort Benning, Ga. -- Trainees learn the basic parachuting skills required to infiltrate an objective area by static line airdrop in a three-week course.

• U.S. Air Force Basic Survival School, Fairchild AFB, Wash. -- This two and a half-week course teaches basic survival techniques for remote areas. Instruction includes principles, procedures, equipment and techniques, which enable individuals to survive, regardless of climatic conditions or unfriendly environments and return home.

• Combat Control School, Pope AFB, N.C. -- This 13-week course provides final combat controller qualifications. Training includes physical training, small unit tactics, land navigation, communications, assault zones, demolitions, fire support and field operations including parachuting. At the completion of this course, each graduate is awarded the 3-skill level (journeymen), scarlet beret and CCT flash.

• Special Tactics Advanced Skills Training, Hurlburt Field, Fla.  -- Advanced Skills Training is a 12-to-15-month program for newly assigned combat controller operators. AST produces mission-ready operators for the Air Force and U.S. Special Operations Command. The AST schedule is broken down into four phases: water, ground, employment and full mission profile. The course tests the trainee’s personal limits through demanding mental and physical training. Combat controllers also attend the following schools during AST:

       U.S. Army Military Free Fall Parachutist School, Fort Bragg, N.C., and Yuma Proving Grounds, Ariz. -- This course instructs free fall parachuting procedures. The five-week course provides wind tunnel training, in-air instruction focusing on student stability, aerial maneuvers, air sense, parachute opening procedures and parachute canopy control.

       U.S. Army Combat Divers School, Panama City, Fla.  -- Trainees become combat divers, learning to use scuba and closed circuit diving equipment to covertly infiltrate denied areas. The four-week course provides training to depths of 130 feet, stressing development of maximum underwater mobility under various operating conditions.

      U.S. Navy Underwater Egress Training, Pensacola Naval Air Station, Fla. -- This one-day course teaches how to safely escape from an aircraft that has ditched in the water. Instruction includes principles, procedures and techniques necessary to get out of a sinking aircraft.

History

Army pathfinders originated in 1943 out of need for accurate airdrops during airborne campaigns of World War II.  These pathfinders preceded main assault forces into objective areas to provide weather information and visual guidance to inbound aircraft through the use of high-powered lights, flares and smoke pots.

When the Air Force became a separate service,  Air Force pathfinders, later called combat control teams, were activated in 1953  to provide navigational aids and air traffic control for a growing Air Force.  In the Vietnam War, combat controllers helped assure mission safety and expedited air traffic flow during countless airlifts. Combat controllers also flew as forward air guides in support of indigenous forces in Laos and Cambodia.

Combat controllers continue to be the "First There" when they are called upon to participate in international emergencies and humanitarian relief efforts.

Offline MJP

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2006, 11:39:10 »
rampage,

   If you read my post I did say that some FACs were Snr NCOs. I don't have the latest numbers at my hand but when I departed the CF a few years back and my past jobs as a FAC instructor and FAC SME, I can tell you that their were always more Officers trained to be FACs then Snr NCOs. And that Snr NCOs are now used in the Assistant position not the lead position. As for the non Arty positions yes ever course had positions for FACs from Inf and Tanks but thy were limited as the primary job of the Arty is and was to provide FAC support to the Army. The Artillery school is the lead agency in the Army to teach and to provide FACs. As for the future and a primary roll for full time FACs as a trade into itself I doubt it, it has always been a primary roll of the Arty Officer who was in the fire support position to provide that and I suggest it will remain that way. On the SF guys I don't know but from what my Arty and Air friends tell me Arty Officers and Snr NCOs fill that roll in the SF. The last FAC course I taught on had two SF Snr NCOs gunners on it and they were being trained as FAC assistants.

There are quite a few Snr NCO FACs that are non gunners.  I don't know the numbers regarding officer and NCOs so I'll stay out of that one.  But I'm pretty sure that the Snr NCOs that are trained in are not assistants to an officer while conducting runs, they can be I'm sure, but from what I've seen and experienced they don't.  My WO controlled several B-1s and A-10s overseas in multiple TICs without having a FAC qualified officer around to oversee him.  Usually the FOO/FAC party we had was too busy bringing the 155s in, so at times it was the FAC qualified NCO bringing in the big bombs.
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Offline Garry

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2006, 16:38:40 »
I haven't FAC'd since '89, so can't comment on "today's" world.

I was a Sgt, airborne FAC, and taught on the FAC course.

I quit counting runs at 1,000.

And for you Arty types, I was a designated observer. (and fired Div artillery, on my call)

I was never a helper, aid, assistant, or anything else- I was the FAC. (and the FOO, and the MFC, and owned the direct fire weapons during the runs. BTW, none of that 2 min sterile tgt area for the run poop either- we had 10 seconds sterile over the target area for the low level run)

FAC was taught at AGOS in Gagetown, course was run by the G3 Air, and supported primarily by US assets. CF-5's and Hornets filled out the rest.

Never thought much of the idea of having anyone other than a combat arms guy do the runs. Most of the air force guys that I saw were wasted in the field- why take a fighter pilot and waste all of those pilot skills sitting in the mud? More to the point, most of them had to be baby-sat in the field- waste of time for us, and waste of resources for the Air Force.

I can catagorically state that there is NO reason that most anyone can not do the job- it is not rocket science. And since the new gear came on board, I honestly think the skill sets/required abilities have decreased exponentially.

Rant off.

Offline MCG

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2006, 23:26:21 »
that Snr NCOs are now used in the Assistant position not the lead position.
As MJP pointed out, that is not how we rolled in Kandahar.  Officers & Sr NCO, Arty & Infantry.  All operated as the lead.

Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2006, 23:40:44 »
MCG,

    Good new info since I was in the game in 02. In 94 rules changed and only Officers were lead (I did not agree with that decision), previous to that all were lead. I guess things have changed since I last taught in 02. Guess that is why this forum is so cool. I think now that I reflect across the thread the originator was talking about Path Finders when he discussed US combat controllers? :salute:
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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2006, 00:13:26 »
FAC Course:

Joining Instructions – Forward Air Control

The aim of this course is to prepare selected Officers and Senior NCMs for employment as Forward Air Controllers – Ground (FAC) to the level of Limited-Combat-Ready.

Duration

The course will last 32 training days; this does not include weekends, holidays and non-training (administrative) days.

Content

Performance Objective 101 – Operate in a Field Environment
Performance Objective 102 – Use FAC Equipment
Performance Objective 103 – Plan CAS Missions
Performance Objective 104 – Conduct Low Level CAS Missions
Performance Objective 105 – Conduct High Level CAS Missions
Performance Objective 106 – Conduct Night CAS Missions

Prerequisites

Officer – Members must be a minimum rank of Capt and MOC qualified to the operationally functional point.

NCM – Members must be a minimum rank of Sgt.

Have successfully completed the CF EXPRES test or Land Force BFT within the last year

Have an English language profile IAW NATO STANAG 6001 (3) in English of CCC

Hold a level II security clearance

Be recommended by the unit commanding officer

Pre-reading/Threshold Knowledge Test

There is no formal pre-reading or testing. However, there is a wealth of knowledge available on the Din and Civilian Internet about Close Air Support and Forward Air Controlling. Students may wish to research aircraft capabilities and air-to-ground ordinance for both fixed wing and helicopter gun ships.

Students will be required to use the PLGR GPS during the course. If you have not used it before some pre-learning on how to enter a waypoint, how to find a direction and distance to a target location from a known waypoint and how to convert Grid coordinates to Latitudinal and Longitudinal coordinates will help.

Students will be required to fire basic Artillery missions in support of CAS missions. Knowing how to conduct a support arms call for fire for area neutralization and to conduct a mark would be helpful. Including using binoculars or a laser-range-finder to adjust artillery.

Students will have to be able to find target locations using a prismatic compass, 1:50,000 map and using a variety of laser range finders. Understanding how to do this quickly and efficiently would help the student.

Kit required

Exercises will be tactical and may extend overnight. All field equipment is required (LCV, helmet, appropriate ablution, air mattress, ground sheet, bivie bag, rucksack and sleeping bag. The current Radio-bags for the UHF PRC 113 are very uncomfortable. It is therefore suggested that students bring their issued Day-pack to carry the radio.

PT gear for both indoor and outdoor will be required.

Storage space in student quarters is very limited so students are asked to bring a limited amount of civilian clothing and non-military items.

If you have a civilian GPS you may wish to bring it, as long as it is capable of using either Grid or Lat/Long coordinates and has a +/- 10-meter accuracy. Otherwise you will be issued with a military PLGR GPS.

DEU uniform with parade boots and shoes are not required.

ID Card and ID discs required.

Students will be issued a GPS, NVG’s, Laser Range Finder, Radio and other equipment required for the course upon arrival in Camp Gagetown.

Autobiography

Students are required to submit an autobiography, in English, on the first day of course. The text should include a brief summary of the student’s involvement with the military to date, family background, education, personal strengths and weaknesses and goals for the course. Also include if you are projecting an operational deployment as a FAC within the next 1-3 years and if your unit intends to allow you to conduct FAC continuation trg.

First Parade

Prior to the commencement of the course and upon arrival in Camp Gagetown during a weekday between 0730 and 1600hrs the student is to report to building J7, Artillery School orderly room. Upon arrival in Camp Gagetown during off-duty or after hours students are to report to main entrance of J7, Duty Accommodations were they would be issued their room key and ration card.

On the first day of the Course, students will report to the FAC Course classroom, E219 at 0730hrs. Room E219 is in the Artillery School Section of building J7. It is located on the second floor in the Southern portion of the building, directly beside the Artillery Ammo and Equipment room. Students will be met by a course representative and commence Artillery School in-clearance.

Transportation

DND transportation will normally not be available for students between their accommodations and classroom. Students who are able to drive a POMV are encouraged to do so.

All students are asked to bring valid 404’s, as there are often civilian patterned vehicles rented for the course. The sharing of driver duties is often required for some portions of the course.

Leave

Students are not normally permitted to take leave during the course. In the case where a statutory holiday occurs during training students are allowed to take leave within the Maritime Provinces (less Newfoundland) except on a case-by-case basis.

Medical

Depending on CF 18 Hornet 2-seat-ship availability, some students will get a flight as part of their training in order to understand what the pilot is required to do during Close Air Support (CAS) missions. Students are required to have a signed medical evaluation from a flight surgeon or equivalent Land Force Doctor stating that the student is physically capable of riding in a high performance aircraft. 

Augmentee Staff Information

Augmentation staff are asked to follow the same reporting procedures as outlined for students as stated above.

Augmentation staff will require all field equipment, including Tactical Vest and helmet for the course. Rucksack complete with sleeping bag and air mattress is also required in addition to appropriate environmental gear. The current Radio-bags for the UHF PRC 113 are very uncomfortable. It is therefore suggested that staff bring their issued Day-pack to carry the radio.

Please ensure you have a valid DND 404 driver license for operating civilian patterned vehicles, as there are occasions when the course will have rental vehicles.

School Point of Contact

Any questions with regards to the course of these instructions should be addressed via email or call.......

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2006, 09:13:43 »
I think now that I reflect across the thread the originator was talking about Path Finders when he discussed US combat controllers?

US Air Force combat controllers deploy into hostile environments to establish assault LZs or airfields. There, they conduct air traffic control, JTAC, (gee, FOO/FAC ops and they're not even Arty officers), airspace and airdrome command and control, and support foreign internal defense. They must be FAA-certified air traffic controllers.

Army Pathfinders deploy into a DZ/LZ, by any number of means, in advance of the main body of airborne troops in order to set up navigation aids to pin-point the DZ/LZ. They provide winds on the ground, clear obstacles, establish ORVs, and secure the immediate area.

I suspect that because the thread originator mentioned Combat Controllers several times, he was discussing.....Combat Controllers, and not Pathfinders. To the best of my knowledge, neither group has recieved top-secret awards, topped off with sherry, tucked away in their pockets and never to be spoken of again.....but then again, I'm neither Combat Control or Patrol Pathfinder, so any uninformed thoughts & reflections there would be outside of my lane.

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2006, 09:30:52 »
Quote
from what my Arty and Air friends tell me Arty Officers and Snr NCOs fill that roll in the SF.

Then your friends are misinformed.  Any "operator" can be a FAC/JTAC provided they have the required credentials.
Stop assuming I'm a man!

Don't know how long I want to keep playing this game...

Offline Technoviking

    DANCE TO THE TECHNOVIKING.

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2006, 10:03:48 »
Leave

Students are not normally permitted to take leave during the course. In the case where a statutory holiday occurs during training students are allowed to take leave within the Maritime Provinces (less Newfoundland) except on a case-by-case basis.
Slightly OT, but the province of Newfoundland and Labrador is NOT a Maritime province.

OK, not slightly OT, but WAY OT.  Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled thread....
So, there I was....

Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2006, 19:57:15 »
Then your friends are misinformed.  Any "operator" can be a FAC/JTAC provided they have the required credentials.

Obviously no one said they couldn't.
Sanctuary is as hard to find and as difficult to walk on as a razors edge

Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2006, 20:11:24 »
US Air Force combat controllers deploy into hostile environments to establish assault LZs or airfields. There, they conduct air traffic control, JTAC, (gee, FOO/FAC ops and they're not even Arty officers) airspace and airdrome command and control, and support foreign internal defense. They must be FAA-certified air traffic controllers.

Army Pathfinders deploy into a DZ/LZ, by any number of means, in advance of the main body of airborne troops in order to set up navigation aids to pin-point the DZ/LZ. They provide winds on the ground, clear obstacles, establish ORVs, and secure the immediate area.

I suspect that because the thread originator mentioned Combat Controllers several times, he was discussing.....Combat Controllers, and not Pathfinders.

True, but I suspect that he was looking for the Canadian equivalent, I don't know what that is, I'm suspected that Path Finder would have some of those duties. I am not a Path Finder so I to would be out of my lane commenting on it.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 20:14:03 by 3rd Horseman »
Sanctuary is as hard to find and as difficult to walk on as a razors edge