Author Topic: Are there snipers in the reserves?  (Read 45032 times)

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Pugnacious

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Are there snipers in the reserves?
« on: August 03, 2004, 16:33:53 »
This question came up in the middle of another thread.
http://Army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=17953.new;topicseen#new

My extra questions are...Do they exist in the reserves?
And are the snipers coming from the Regs, or are the reservists trained as Snipers?

I'm trying to join the reserves out here in BC, and would be interested in this field.

Cheers!
P.

Offline MJP

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2004, 16:38:52 »
INFANTRY FAQ


Quote
Snipers

Sniper Article  --  http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,2018.0
Becoming a Sniper  --  http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,2009.0
PPCLI Snipers in Afghanistan  --  http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,1846.0
Legit question about snipers  --  http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,1982.0
Snipers in the reserves?  --  http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,1994.0
.50 cal sniper rifle  --  http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,1809.0

More specifically-http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,1994.0

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Pugnacious

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2004, 16:54:44 »
Wow looks like I shook the answer tree when the fruit was ripe.
Thanx MJP ;D

Cheers!
P.

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2004, 17:43:53 »
I'm trying to join the reserves out here in BC, and would be interested in this field.

Cheers!
P.

A word to the wise - when you go to talk to the recruiters, make sure you make your desire to be a sniper very clear to them; it will probably expedite the process and ensure they know exactly how to place you.  If you have to mention two or three times how badly you want to be a sniper, it will pay dividends.
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2004, 17:54:06 »
 :D
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Pieman

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2004, 18:10:44 »
Hey  Pugnacious,

You want be a Ninja Sniper? PM me if you think you got what it takes.  :blotto:

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Offline Righty(Banned)

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2004, 00:05:48 »
There are no snipers in the reserves, Don't ask my MCpl. We got a big speech about it! (LMAO)

But if you go regs and want to be a sniper you have to have alot of tought ( I mean tough ) courses.


My Mcpl also told us how snipers have a sick sense of humor.

*Story time*

 In vietnam there was a VC sniper who saw a lone Allie truck going down a road. So the sniper Shoots out the front wheel. Unkown to the allie truck they get out and repair the flat tire. So they get going down the road about 50 feet and the sniper shoots out the front tire again. Pissed off the G.I's shoot into the the surrounding land at anger. They fix the tire and get about another 50 feet and the sniper shoots out the front tire again. The G.I. steps out in a rage and the sniper shoots him in the head.


Pugnacious

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2004, 00:10:46 »
Good advice Mike.   

When I talked to a recruter today I made sure to mention my interests in Sniper work, and also saying in the same breath, 'and no I'm not some nut job.' ;D 
Hey said that there are some snipers in the reserve units in our area. 
I think he said some come from the Regs.

Who knows maybe I'm a bad shot, but I won't know 'till I'm there.
At least it is a thought that will get me through basic.

Cheers!
P.

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2004, 00:22:42 »
Good advice Mike. 

When I talked to a recruter today I made sure to mention my interests in Sniper work, and also saying in the same breath, 'and no I'm not some nut job.' ;D 
Hey said that there are some snipers in the reserve units in our area. 
I think he said some come from the Regs.

Who knows maybe I'm a bad shot, but I won't know 'till I'm there.
At least it is a thought that will get me through basic.

Cheers!
P.

At your next recruiting interview, you should probably wear a complete uniform - see if you can find one at a local surplus store, and sew lots of stripes on the sleeves; they will be impressed by your sense of style and respect for the uniform.
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Offline combat_medic

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2004, 00:27:02 »
You know, I defy anyone to name me a reserve sniper who trained as a reservist and was tasked in a reserve sniper cell as a reservist. Never have I heard anything other than complete heresay or the "friend of a friend" story, but no one has any real proof that any reservist in the entire CF is a serving sniper. There is no position for it, there is no allotment for it and there's no funding for it. Reserve units do not have Recce platoons to attach to Rifle Battalions which would necessitate the presence of a single sniper det. No matter what kind of hot shot you may think you are with a rifle, you might as well be praying to be a Pathfinder or JTF assaulter in the reserves. Also, you need to tell whatever recruiter you spoke to to give their head a shake, because they're so full of $hit that their eyes must be brown. Why in the name of God would a reservist be filling a sniper task when the guys in the Regs are falling over themselves to get on the course to occupy the 4 sniper positions per battalion in the regs.

Yes, if you do the math - 4 snipers per battalion times 9 infantry battalions in the Regs = 36 soldiers in the entire CF who are occupying sniper positions. You might as well buy a lottery ticket and stand out in Stanley Park with a lightning rod, because you have a better chance of winning the lottery and being hit by lightning than being a sniper in the reserves.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2004, 00:28:12 »
When your a sniper do you still get to choose your own rifle?
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Pugnacious

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2004, 00:33:54 »
Speaking of brown eyes...  
Yah sure Mike. Hahahaha.

And why not dress up as a Ninja, and slither into the office whirling foam nunchucks while I'm at it?   :dontpanic:

LOL!
P.

Offline MJP

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2004, 00:44:29 »
[quote author=combat_medic link=topic=18030.msg88708#msg88708 date=109159362

Yes, if you do the math - 4 snipers per battalion times 9 infantry battalions in the Regs = 36 soldiers in the entire CF who are occupying sniper positions.
Quote

There are more than four sniper positions in the Bn right now.   But they are also in the process of revamping the sniper cells within each Bn(at least here), and the total numbers are a getting up there.   We've heard whispers of 17 man cells but again take it for whats it's worth from the grapevine.  But I digress and will stop taking this thread off topic :)



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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2004, 01:08:07 »
No matter what kind of hot shot you may think you are with a rifle, you might as well be praying to be a Pathfinder or JTF assaulter in the reserves.

Actually The Maple Leaf has some articles about Reservist attending and passing Pathfinder.  The QOR have two spots for the course in Nov

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2004, 01:32:55 »
Speaking of brown eyes...
Yah sure Mike. Hahahaha.

And why not dress up as a Ninja, and slither into the office whirling foam nunchucks while I'm at it?  :dontpanic:

LOL!
P.

You magnificent *******, that's what I was going to do!  Would suck if we showed up at the recruiters wearing the same outfit.
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Offline combat_medic

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2004, 12:46:51 »
Hatchet: Yeah, I heard about that lone Pathfinder reservist. However, as far as I understand, he's had at least a good decade behind his belt with a myriad of reg force courses, including Para, Recce, LZ/DZ and Mil Freefall. In any case, I think Pugnacious, short of spending the rest of his career with the QoR and NOT in BC as he stated, has as high a chance of being a pathfinder as being a sniper.

MJP: When did they chance that? Last organizational chart I saw shows 1 Sniper det per Bn in Recce Pl. Is that just a trial, or are they changing SOPs/Bn Organizations?
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline MJP

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2004, 13:33:12 »
It's been in for a while...your chart probably showed mortars too eh? :)

I checked today and I was off by one the sniper cell/section for the Bn is 18 pers.
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Pugnacious

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2004, 17:30:54 »
I'll find out when I get there.
And if I can do it I will. ;D

Bookasha!
P.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2004, 18:09:28 »
While the desire to eventually be trained as a sniper or pathfinder is admirable, looking for means to set the conditions to achieve that goal while in the recruiting process is futile. Other than processing you for the infantry, no recruiter has the influence to improve your chances of either of those specialties, or any others in the trade. Once you are trade qualified for the infantry and posted to a unit, the unit you have been placed in will dictate your training opportunities and your performance and personal attributes will be the primary factor that influences those choices.

As for Pathfinders or Snipers in the Reserve, I know of no units with establishments for either. While some units may be gaining Recce Platoon tasks under the Reserve Restructure, I have not yet seen any indication that those platoon establishments include hard sniper positions. The Regular Force exerts considerable effort to select, prepare and train soldiers for the sniper positions in the line battalions. It is unlikely there is any plan to diversify valuable space on such a course to reserve units when the training is costly (from a Reserve unit perspective) to maintain and would be little or never used.

As for the QOR Pathfinder, that would be a Reserve Soldier who happened to get a Pathfinder course (which makes him probably one out of 5000 or so Reserve Infantry personnel), not a unit with a Pathfinder task and entitlements to regular course vacancies (someone can correct me if I am mistaken). I expect it came about more though the QOR affiliation with CPC, which allowed them to fill a short-notice vacancy, rather than any other means. A known soldier who was already on tasking with CPC at the time perhaps?

And with the Regular battalions, even at 18 hard sniper positions each, that only means 162 positions and probably not many Privates among them. Once established they'll probably have about a 25% turnover annually for all causes (remusters, releases, promotions to appointments back in rifle companies, etc). That means the Battalion may need about 5 new snipers each year out of the 300+ soldiers in the rifle companies. With the reduction of the Combat Support companies, there are fewer jobs outside the rifle companies for all soldiers to desire and pursue, so competition will be strong.

D-n-A

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2004, 18:55:36 »
This is kind of on subject with snipers, I was wondering, does Canada have any "designated marksman" like the US Army and Marines.

Offline MJP

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2004, 19:36:34 »
This is kind of on subject with snipers, I was wondering, does Canada have any "designated marksman" like the US Army and Marines.

Well deployed yes, and they should be issued with the C7 CT.  We'll have one in my PL when I go probably in Wpns Det.



Specs here
http://www.diemaco.com/

Excolis had mentioned it before, in the infantry forum that he had one of his soldiers as a designated marksmen for ROTO 0 Athena...I'll see if I can dig it up and grab the link.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2004, 19:39:02 by MJP »
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Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2004, 19:52:32 »
Indeed, I was in Bosnia roto 13 with a Lt from QOR who passed the pathfinder course.

Hatchet: Yeah, I heard about that lone Pathfinder reservist. However, as far as I understand, he's had at least a good decade behind his belt with a myriad of reg force courses, including Para, Recce, LZ/DZ and Mil Freefall. In any case, I think Pugnacious, short of spending the rest of his career with the QoR and NOT in BC as he stated, has as high a chance of being a pathfinder as being a sniper.
.

And no he isn't that old, and of course had to get three of those courses to qualify for the course, all at CPC thru the QOR.
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2004, 20:18:30 »
Is giving a Reservist a Sniper or Pathfinder qualification worth the resources.  Will the military get a return on its investment from a soldier who parades about 6-8 days out of a month and belongs to a unit that has a hard time pulling off Platoon and Company attacks, let alone being able to utilize the high level skill set that a Sniper or Pathfinder would have?
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Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2004, 20:20:52 »
Is giving a Reservist a Sniper or Pathfinder qualification worth the resources.  Will the military get a return on its investment from a soldier who parades about 6-8 days out of a month and belongs to a unit that has a hard time pulling off Platoon and Company attacks, let alone being able to utilize the high level skill set that a Sniper or Pathfinder would have?

Aren't you the one who said "train for war?"

Shall we train with the goal of doing company attacks in Wainwright next month, or train with the mindset that our skills might be needed in North Korea, Panama, Haiti, North German Plain, et al, six months from now?

;)
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Are there snipers in the reserves?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2004, 20:56:08 »
Quote
Aren't you the one who said "train for war?"

 :)

I am becoming so quotable, ain't I.

Quote
Shall we train with the goal of doing company attacks in Wainwright next month, or train with the mindset that our skills might be needed in North Korea, Panama, Haiti, North German Plain, et al, six months from now?

Exactly.   There are dedicated Sniper and Pathfinder/Recce assets in the Regular Force, which can manage the high degree of specialization that these skill sets require.   A reservist would probably see these skills degrade as he went back to a "meat-and-potatos" reserve unit.

I would rather see the resources and manpower dedicated to having a reserve sub-unit trained to a reasonably cohesive level, opening the door to deployment and greater training oppurtunities.  A reserve unit is much more likely to man an AOR in a Peace Support Operation or take on a defensive perimeter if mobilized on a war footing then conducting long range sniping and recce missions; leave that the the regulars.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2004, 20:58:14 by Infanteer »
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr