Author Topic: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong  (Read 8498 times)

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2019, 16:10:33 »
Apparently 7,000 troops have rolled in.
In, or out?  PLA's HK Garrison has ~6K - these are new?
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2019, 18:24:12 »
Apparently mainland troops

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2019, 07:58:38 »
Apparently mainland troops
Seen -- any links on that?  I can only find one FB reference that I can't tell the authenticity of at this point.  Also, I suspect if all the travel restrictions mentioned here were in place, it would have made MSM by now.  Thanks for that!
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2019, 12:04:16 »
Hong Cong also has a PLA garrison which would facilitate any reinforcement.

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2019, 14:38:07 »
Seen -- any links on that?  I can only find one FB reference that I can't tell the authenticity of at this point.  Also, I suspect if all the travel restrictions mentioned here were in place, it would have made MSM by now.  Thanks for that!

That's what I saw, hence my use of the word 'apparently"

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2019, 19:50:14 »
That's what I saw, hence my use of the word 'apparently"
Fingers crossed ...

Meanwhile, good question:  "Hong Kong strike: Can protesters shut down the city?" ...
Quote
Mong Kok is a busy neighborhood in Hong Kong known for its maze of narrow streets brimming with lots of markets and eateries. 

Carol Ng, the chairperson of the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions, and several staff were busy Thursday handing out white wristbands to busy shoppers and commuters in Mong Kok for a general strike planned for Monday, August 5.

Protesters are calling for a general strike in Hong Kong in an attempt to put pressure on the city's government to meet their so-called five demands. These include full withdrawal of draft legislation for a controversial extradition bill, and the creation of an independent committee to investigate alleged police brutality during the mass protests over the past two months, among other things.

They reminded all Mong Kok residents and visitors to join the general strike and wear black shirts to work every Monday.

Ng said it took just a week for protesters to call for a strike and to mobilize citizens through various unions. Social media, like Telegram, has also been used to mobilize demonstrators. Various industry bodies have set up their own groups to take part in the strike ...
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 19:54:12 by milnews.ca »
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2019, 18:24:48 »
Perhaps we should start referring to them as Red China again. People seem to have forgotten their pedigree.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2019, 18:40:09 »
I prefer Chicoms.

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2019, 21:05:27 »
I prefer Chicoms.

Mark
Ottawa

Indeed. Though it’s probably in our interest to have a better grasp of their power structure than to just dumb it down and write ‘em off as commies. There’s a lot more going on there than that. Functionally there’s a centralized state-directed corporatist economy with quasi-capitalist selected ‘champions’ supported by the state regulatory and intelligence apparatus. They’ve learned a great deal about how to move capital in the last 70 years. Which is part, I think, of why they have so much fear regarding how Hong Kong goes. They’ve become sophisticated enough to know they need to not screw this up.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2019, 14:01:08 »
Interestingly the hacktivist group as they have been called, anonymous has come out of the shadows to voice their opinion on events, encouraging Hong Kong to keep up the protests and push for full independence.

In real news all eyes are on what happens tomorrow and how big the called on General Strike ends up being. From what I am reading in the New York Times, and else where protesters seem to be getting more supplies, more people and I'd say mondays strike will likely bring Hong Kong, one of the financial hubs of Asia to a grinding halt. Protesters are resorting to hit and run tactics, once a protest hits resistance from police they will melt away and reform else where, forcing the police to redeploy, over and over again.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2019, 15:11:56 »
Interestingly the hacktivist group as they have been called, anonymous has come out of the shadows to voice their opinion on events, encouraging Hong Kong to keep up the protests and push for full independence.

In real news all eyes are on what happens tomorrow and how big the called on General Strike ends up being. From what I am reading in the New York Times, and else where protesters seem to be getting more supplies, more people and I'd say mondays strike will likely bring Hong Kong, one of the most important top 5 financial hubs of Asia in the whole world to a grinding halt. Protesters are resorting to hit and run tactics, once a protest hits resistance from police they will melt away and reform else where, forcing the police to redeploy, over and over again.


FTFY.

Singapore and London are rubbing its hands with glee as HK suffers ... none of Paris, Frankfurt, Toronto or Sydney is even on the same financial map as London, New York, Hong Kong and Singapore.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2019, 23:35:28 »
My guess is that riot troops and police will be deployed before the protests get going. Subways will be shut down. The internet and cell phones may not be working. The government will not let the protesters mobilize and any protest leaders would be arrested.

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2019, 05:52:45 »
My guess is that riot troops and police will be deployed before the protests get going. Subways will be shut down. The internet and cell phones may not be working. The government will not let the protesters mobilize and any protest leaders would be arrested.


I'm watching a near-real-time feed, it's about 5 minutes delayed and as I write it is 5:50 PM on Monday afternoon in Hong Kong ... reports say that almost 500 people have been arrested; hundreds of flights delayed; some MTR lines and streets have been shut down by the protesters.





Huge stores and malls that are, normally, jammed with tens of thousands of people on a Monday, at the end of the working day, are empty and many shops have been closed all day.





Shutting down the mobile phone service would require a court order. I doubt the police have applied ~ on what grounds would they?

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2019, 07:09:15 »
Interesting wordsmithing by the CHN Communist Party info-machine ...
Quote
The Chinese Foreign Ministry on Friday refuted reports that the People's Liberation Army Garrison in Hong Kong would allegedly be deployed to enforce martial law* on Sunday, and that US and UK passport holders would be "cleaned up," calling such reports "rumors" and " aimed at creating panic."

Hua Chunying, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson, said that some Western governments, including the US, have turned black into white and made irresponsible remarks on Hong Kong's situation, which wantonly interfered in China's internal affairs.

"We urge those foreign forces to recognize the situation and determination and ability of the central government to support the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region government in administering its policies in accordance with the law and maintaining Hong Kong's security and stability," Hua said.

Since June, rallies have been staged in Hong Kong on the extradition bill. Some radical demonstrators deliberately provoked and created violent incidents, which seriously threatened public safety and affected the rule of law, social order, economic livelihood and international image of Hong Kong. The central government firmly supports the Hong Kong government in handling the situation according to law, Hua said.

"We hope that journalists distinguish between the appeals of ordinary Hong Kong residents from the violent activities of a very small number of radical forces. Do not let the majority of Hong Kong citizens be abducted by a small number of violent forces," Hua said.

Hua added that she has seen reports saying that more and more Hong Kong residents have expressed their dissatisfaction with the actions of radical forces, and wish peace would be restored to Hong Kong as soon as possible.
* - Cynic's read:  if troops help out, they won't be HK Garrison troops?  Or they'll come in under HK law, not Chinese-imposed martial law?

Meanwhile, a bit of what some of those other troops are up to ...
"China, Singapore hold joint military drill on urban anti-terrorism" (CHN military media, with some video)
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2019, 20:27:43 »
This from Radio Free Asia (RFA) ...
Quote
Veteran journalist and political commentator Willy Lam spoke to RFA's Cantonese Service on Tuesday about why the ruling Chinese Communist Party hasn't cracked down on Hong Kong yet, in spite of escalating protests against amendments to the city's extradition law that could see alleged criminal suspects sent to face trial in mainland Chinese courts:

RFA: So will Beijing send in the People's Liberation Army (PLA) to control unrest in Hong Kong?

Lam: I can say for certain that Xi Jinping isn't even going to consider sending in the PLA before the Oct. 1 National Day celebrations. The reason is very simple: On Oct. 1, they will be celebrating the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China, and President Xi has already arranged for the biggest ever display of military strength on Tiananmen Square. Any deployment of the PLA in Hong Kong before that date would spoil the festive atmosphere, because it would signal the end of the framework of one country, two systems. It would also diminish China in the eyes of the world, and be a loss of face for President Xi.

The entire state machinery for maintaining stability, that's to say the machinery of the police state, began under [former presidents] Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao, but it has become much more powerful since Xi Jinping took power. It now incorporates high-tech features, like artificial intelligence and big data, and the social credit system. So there are many ways in which we can say that the machinery of the police state has already crossed the Shenzhen River into Hong Kong. The clearest example of that is the deployment of a large number of mainland police officers in Hong Kong, after Beijing decided the protests were a color revolution at the beginning of June. The ranks of the Hong Kong riot police now include anti-riot police from the north, who are wearing the uniforms of the Hong Kong police.

RFA: So what about the people in white shirts who attacked the protesters in black shirts in North Point, where people were surrounding the police station?

Lam: Cooperation between the Chinese police and triad organizations goes back many decades, and the mainland Chinese police and armed police forces have always used them to deal with problems that can't be allowed to see the light of day. For example, the use of violence to take land from farmers. This allows them to evade legal responsibility. But we haven't seen this kind of large-scale collusion between police and triad gangs in Hong Kong to target ordinary citizens in more than a century.

The anti-extradition movement in Hong Kong has become a black swan incident for mainland China. Ever since a million people took to the streets on June 9, the whole of Hong Kong society, at every level and in every sector, has been united against the government. Now the movement has broadened into a demand for fully democratic elections. Xi Jinping's main worry right now is how to deploy the machinery of stability maintenance to bring Hong Kong to heel.

RFA: But now the Chinese economy is having problems, isn't it?

Lam: China is facing a serious financial crisis and it is basically insolvent, so Hong Kong's status as an international financial center is more important to China than ever. The Chinese government may also start to demand a "public-private partnership" with the Hong Kong economy. But Hong Kong people won't just demand genuine universal suffrage; they will also extend this struggle to economic and financial activity. More and more middle class businesspeople will be breaking their silence.

And even though the [ruling] Chinese Communist Party keeps suppressing them, there are more and more civil organizations springing up in mainland China all the time. For example, the number of Protestants and Catholics may exceed the number of communists nationwide. Then you have the groups of veterans who often demonstrate, you have a large number of grievances at home, and then there is resistance in Hong Kong. This isn't something that can be solved in the long term using the machinery of stability maintenance. The greater the pressure, the greater the resistance will be.

The continued struggle of the people of Hong Kong over the past few weeks has inspired civil society in mainland China, Taiwan, Southeast Asia, and the rest of the world. I predict that the stability maintenance regime of the Chinese Communist Party dictatorship won't stay effective for very long.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2019, 07:03:15 »
From China's military media - text also attached ...
Quote
China on Tuesday further responded to questions on whether the People's Liberation Army (PLA) will be deployed to take over Hong Kong.

Yang Guang, spokesperson for the Hong Kong and Macao Affairs Office of the State Council, responded to the question with three points at a media briefing held by the State Council Information Office on Tuesday.

"First, the PLA's 92 years of glorious history has proved its unparalleled reliability and strength when it comes to safeguarding the country's sacred territory.

"Second, the PLA is not only a mighty force, but also a civilized one. The PLA listen to the orders from the Communist Party of China and acts in accordance with laws. And so does the PLA Hong Kong Garrison, which acts in accordance with relevant rules of the Basic Law and the Law of the People's Republic of China on the Garrisoning of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

"Third, we believe that with firm support from the central government and from people in Hong Kong together with people from all over the country, the Hong Kong regional government and Hong Kong police are fully capable of punishing violent crimes and restoring social order and stability.

"These three points become a complete system, and if I need to say one more sentence, it is that the central government and people from all over the country give true support to the prosperity and stability in Hong Kong. The central government will never allow any violation of the principle of 'one country, two systems' to go unpunished and will never let unrest take place that is uncontrollable by the Hong Kong regional government and endanger national unity and safety," Yang said.

Yang's remarks came after Chen Daoxiang, commander of the PLA Garrison in Hong Kong, condemned violence on the streets of Hong Kong and vowed to firmly safeguard China's sovereignty and national security.

The Hong Kong police Tuesday dismissed rumors the PLA has been deployed as Hong Kong police, according to a statement released on the website of the Hong Kong regional government.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2019, 12:03:42 »
Meanwhile, a bit of what some of those other troops are up to ...
"China, Singapore hold joint military drill on urban anti-terrorism" (CHN military media, with some video)

Given that China supported a decades long insurgency conflict against Singapore, and is likely continuing to foment low level insurgency in the Malayan peninsula, I find this joint training interesting.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2019, 20:12:45 »
A reminder from CHN's Communist Party media of who else could drop by to help (with a yet another reminder @ the end of the article)?
Quote
Shenzhen police drill mirrors Hong Kong protests
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/8/6 13:08:19

A total of 12,000 police officers in Shenzhen, South China's Guangdong Province participated in a drill on Tuesday, attracting online attention as the drill features emergency scenarios that resemble the ongoing riots in adjacent Hong Kong.

Shenzhen police said that the drill aimed to maintain social stability, encourage the morale of police forces, and prepare the forces ahead of 70th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China, according to a statement sent by the police to the Global Times on Tuesday.

Participants included all police forces - land, air and sea - and equipment such as armored cars, helicopters and amphibious vehicles.

However, the drill attracted unusual attention on social media as many netizens, who hold a grudge against recent riots in Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, said the drill can also call the attention of rioters in Hong Kong, and give Hong Kong police a tip about how to deal with radical protesters.

According to video clips of the drill, people in the crowd simulating a mob wore helmets, masks and black outfits. They constantly threw objects at the shield-holding police forces, and attacked them with wooden sticks.

To deal with such violence, the police fired tear gas and sent police dogs. They used a newly developed cluster tear gas, which has wider coverage and stronger effect compared with traditional ones.

The crowd also pushed blazing carts toward police, who immediately put out the fire with fire extinguishers.

The drill was live broadcasted via many online media platforms.

The crowds' outfits, equipment and the manner in which they attacked the police were very similar to those of the radical protesters in Hong Kong, which prompted many netizens to link the drill with the riots in Hong Kong.

Many suggested that this could send a signal to those rioters, and called on Hong Kong police to learn from the drill.

The live broadcast suffered from lagging streaming speeds from time to time as too many netizens were tuning in.

Hong Kong police are showing restraint in dealing with the radical protesters, and their efforts to safeguard the stability of the region are winning increasing support in the Chinese mainland.

Many mainland netizens, especially young people, who grew up watching Hong Kong crime movies and developed an admiration for Hong Kong police officers, took to social media to express their anger toward the radical anti-government protesters.

Xu Luying, a spokesperson for the Hong Kong and Macao Affairs Office of China's State Council, said Tuesday that with firm and steady support of the central government and all Chinese people including Hong Kong compatriots, the Hong Kong government and the police force have the full ability to bring violent criminals to justice and restore social order and peace.

The netizens' response and assumption came from their worries about the recent situation in Hong Kong and did not indicate the government's intention, Zhang Dinghuai, a professor at the Center for Basic Laws of Hong Kong and Macao Special Administrative Region of Shenzhen University, told the Global Times, noting that the central government will act according to relevant laws.

Responding to a question concerning how to deal with Hong Kong secessionist forces, Wu Qian, a spokesperson of China's Ministry of National Defense cited the Law of the People's Republic of China on the Garrisoning of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), which stipulates that the Hong Kong government can request that the central government to allow the Chinese People's Liberation Army Garrison in Hong Kong to maintain social order and provide disaster relief when necessary.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2019, 17:08:11 »
Friend shared this on facebook, it is being reported that ambulance crews are being spotted wearing military uniforms and are only helping police, and the white shirt gangs. Supplemented by the rumors that the PLA is deploying troops in Hong Kong police uniforms, feels like Beijing is puling out all the stops short of rolling the tanks in. Protesters are also escalating using laser pointers to counter police and facial recognition cameras.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2019, 07:10:19 »
I have heard ~ not confirmed by anyone who is really in the know ~ that some Shenzhen police officers are already in HK, working sort of semi-undercover. They were said to have been dressed in black T-shirts, but blue police trousers and boots, and some tried to mingle with the demonstrators. When confronted they withdrew to the police lines; they were followed and asked for their warrant card numbers, something that every HK police officer recites at the drop of a hat. But, the source says, since they were Chinese cops, not HK ones, they have no warrant cards.

The Hong Kong police have been run off their feet; the current "flow like water" tactics stretches them even further; they are tired and it is showing, I think. They are making mistakes, discipline is breaking down in some cases ~ all to be expected and all in line with old fashioned "revolutionary warfare" doctrine and tactics. 

The use of Chinse Army troops would be an admission that HK cannot govern itself. That's something that neither the officials, in Beijing and HK, nor the demonstrators want. The only source of police reinforcements is the mainland Chinese civil police, but they are very, very unlike the HK police in training and attitudes.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2019, 10:21:59 »
I have heard ~ not confirmed by anyone who is really in the know ~ that some Shenzhen police officers are already in HK, working sort of semi-undercover. They were said to have been dressed in black T-shirts, but blue police trousers and boots, and some tried to mingle with the demonstrators. When confronted they withdrew to the police lines; they were followed and asked for their warrant card numbers, something that every HK police officer recites at the drop of a hat. But, the source says, since they were Chinese cops, not HK ones, they have no warrant cards.

The Hong Kong police have been run off their feet; the current "flow like water" tactics stretches them even further; they are tired and it is showing, I think. They are making mistakes, discipline is breaking down in some cases ~ all to be expected and all in line with old fashioned "revolutionary warfare" doctrine and tactics. 

The use of Chinse Army troops would be an admission that HK cannot govern itself. That's something that neither the officials, in Beijing and HK, nor the demonstrators want. The only source of police reinforcements is the mainland Chinese civil police, but they are very, very unlike the HK police in training and attitudes.

The Gurkhas always had good success at controlling the crowds in Hong Kong, although the results were not always to the liking of the protesters :)
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2019, 11:22:16 »
The Gurkhas always had good success at controlling the crowds in Hong Kong, although the results were not always to the liking of the protesters :)

I hear a lot of the things the Gurkhas did and do are not to the liking for those on the other side.  :)

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2019, 12:03:27 »
I hear a lot of the things the Gurkhas did and do are not to the liking for those on the other side.  :)

Different time zone, different ROE ;)

https://coconuts.co/hongkong/news/british-army-would-have-shot-hong-kong-protestors-80s/
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2019, 12:20:40 »
I wish the US could raise a Gurkha battalion or two.