Author Topic: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges  (Read 2399 times)

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Online Hamish Seggie

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2019, 21:42:58 »

Maybe oversight can help with that?   :dunno:

The problem is who will provide that oversight? A SOF HQ or some other HQ?
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Online tomahawk6

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2019, 00:17:06 »
Its the job of each service to provide oversight. meaning that officers in the chain of command from the team level on up. The culture of the SEAL units is a problem. An example is the case where SOF operators killed a Green beret. through the years other SOF abuses have surfaced and it usually involved money. They are some of America's best but need adult leadership IMO.

Online mariomike

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2019, 16:11:34 »
In today's news,

Quote
3 hrs ago
 
The San Diego Union-Tribune

SEAL commander charged in war crime cover-up heading to trial in September
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/seal-commander-charged-in-war-crime-cover-up-heading-to-trial-in-september/ar-AADUgVd?ocid=ientp

Online tomahawk6

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2019, 16:51:09 »
Reminds me of the CF's experience in Somalia which resulted in the break up of a parachute regiment.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2019, 17:09:58 »
Which part of this reminds you of Somalia?
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2019, 17:13:35 »
Its the job of each service to provide oversight. meaning that officers in the chain of command from the team level on up. The culture of the SEAL units is a problem. An example is the case where SOF operators killed a Green beret. through the years other SOF abuses have surfaced and it usually involved money. They are some of America's best but need adult leadership IMO.

It's a real difficult question, that's for sure.

I've always felt that oversight agencies that parallel the chain of command are the equivalent of political commissars in the old soviet style of military. Maintaining standards and discipline is--and should be--a function of the chain of command and when that doesn't work you fire the weak links and replace them with better leaders.

The problem comes with units that have very tight relationships and an ethos of secrecy where outsiders are seen as, well, outsiders. Sometimes maintaining discipline runs counter to maintaining esprit de corps, although it ought never to.

I'm not sure to what extent US (or any) SOF units have "internal affairs" type of investigators/agencies (over and above the usual NCIS, CID or USAFOSI folks) that are operators/former operators and a part of the organization's staff--but not the actual leadership chain of command. That might be an answer (although perhaps a flirtation with the commissar concept)

Reminds me of the CF's experience in Somalia which resulted in the break up of a parachute regiment.

While Somalia opened up the CAR to in-depth examination, it was the hazing videos that were the straws that broke the camel's back; that and the fact that during a period of ever tightening financial restraint it was hard to find and justify a role for the CAR as constituted.

In some ways the Regiment's demise eventually paved the way to the formation of the much better structured and organized Canadian Special Operations Forces Command.

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Online tomahawk6

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2019, 17:13:42 »
The culture of special units that got out of hand.

Online tomahawk6

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2019, 17:18:04 »
Soldiers should use the IG if they see violations of the UJMJ. Another avenue would be to complain to their Congressman. In the CF that would be the ombudsman right ?

Online Hamish Seggie

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2019, 21:20:20 »
The culture of special units that got out of hand.

And certainly some of that was evident within the CAR.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2019, 11:13:01 »

Maybe oversight can help with that?   :dunno:

Or just good old fashioned ‘proper leadership’.
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