Author Topic: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019  (Read 2806 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MilEME09

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 37,695
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,643
India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« on: February 27, 2019, 13:46:39 »
Pakistan's military said Wednesday it shot down two Indian warplanes in the disputed region of Kashmir and captur...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/pakistan-says-2-indian-warplanes-downed-2-pilots-captured-1.4314522

Things heating up rather quickly in Kashmir, hopefully cooler heads prevail
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline MarkOttawa

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 74,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,615
  • Two birthdays
    • The 3Ds Blog
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2019, 14:05:37 »
1) India Pakistan: Kashmir fighting sees Indian aircraft downed
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47383634


Pakistani soldiers by what Pakistan says is wreckage from a downed Indian jet

2) India-Pakistan tensions: All the latest updates
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/india-pakistan-tensions-latest-updates-190227063414443.html

Mark
Ottawa

Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Online Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 214,655
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,168
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2019, 17:07:28 »
Amazing how flat a MiG-21 looks pancaked in from a 30,000’ flat spin...

Offline YZT580

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 25,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 762
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 19:56:26 »
Good visual commercial for not relying upon older generation fighters though.

Offline CBH99

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 27,125
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 812
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2019, 05:15:04 »
Good thing India didn't let a brutally ineffective government bureaucracy prevent them from buying state of the art Rafale fights, and instead they were able to move quickly...   :D  ;)

Would be a shame for Pakistani F-16's to be going up against HAL Tejas.  Let's hope that pretty big fleet of SU-30s comes in handy. 
Fortune Favours the Bold...and the Smart.

Wouldn't it be nice to have some Boondock Saints kicking around?

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 144,460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,594
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2019, 10:16:32 »
Gutsy going into combat today in that flying museum piece. Was it shot down by fighters or ADA?

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 144,460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,594
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca

Online milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 422,770
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,163
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 06:31:22 »
Gutsy going into combat today in that flying museum piece. Was it shot down by fighters or ADA?
BBC's initial version ...
Quote
... Pakistan's military spokesman said that Pakistan fighter jets had carried out "strikes" - exactly what they did remains unclear - in Indian-administered Kashmir on Wednesday.

Two Indian air force jets then responded, crossing the de facto border that divides Kashmir. "Our jets were ready and we shot both of them down," Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor said.

He said that one Indian pilot was in the custody of the Pakistani army. Officials had previously said two pilots had been captured and one had been taken to hospital.

No explanation has been given as to why the numbers have changed ...
... with a bit of speculation via the South China Morning Post today:
Quote
Beijing has refused to confirm a former Pakistani air force officer’s claim that China-made JF-17 fighters were used by the Pakistan Air Force to shoot down Indian military aircraft.

Less than two hours after the claim was made on Wednesday morning, the share price of the state-owned plane maker’s sister company rose in trading in Shenzhen.

The Chinese defence ministry did not respond on Thursday when asked whether JF-17s were involved in the Pakistan-India clashes.

Instead, ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang said: “The most urgent and important thing is both India and Pakistan should keep restraint.”

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had said on Wednesday that it shot down two Indian fighter jets that entered Pakistani airspace near the Kashmir Line of Control, and captured a pilot. India said that its air force lost only one MiG-21 Bison and pilot while shooting down a Pakistani F-16.

The Pakistani military denied any involvement of the American-made F-16s in the engagement, making it more likely JF-17 jets were deployed – a theory bolstered by a tweet by a retired PAF officer ...
More on the JF-17 here (PAK Aeronautical Complex Karma), here (archived Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation page, in Chinese) and here (Wikipedia - usual caveats apply).
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Online 211RadOp

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 26,043
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 886
  • Now is the tyme....damn missed again....Now is the
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2019, 10:05:45 »
WAGAH, Pakistan -- Pakistani officials brought a captured Indian pilot to a border crossing with India for handover on Friday, a "gesture of peace" promised by Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan amid a dramatic escalation with the country's archrival over the disputed region of Kashmir.

The pilot, identified as Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, was taken in a convoy that set out from the eastern Pakistani city of Lahore to the border crossing at Wagah earlier in the day, escorted by military vehicles with soldiers, their weapons drawn.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/pakistan-brings-captured-indian-pilot-to-border-for-handover-1.4317917
“Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes." Jim Carrey
"Do unto others, then run." Benny Hill
"There's no better feeling in the world than a warm pizza box on your lap." Kevin James

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 144,460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,594
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2019, 14:35:38 »
good on Pakistan for doing that, hopefully this gesture is remembered when India is in the same position.

Offline Retired AF Guy

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 50,720
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,733
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2019, 19:17:01 »
Quote
More on the JF-17 here (PAK Aeronautical Complex Karma), here (archived Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation page, in Chinese) and here (Wikipedia - usual caveats apply).

The two closest PAF fighter bases to Kashmir are:

Minhas: 33 Tac Wing
                       - 14 (AS) Sqn -  JF-17
                       - 16 (MR) Sqn - JF-17

Peshawar: 36 Tac Attack Wing
                       - 17 (AS) Sqn - F-7P/PG
                       - 26 (MR) Sqn - JF-17

Source: Scramble

« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 19:20:08 by Retired AF Guy »
"Leave one wolf alive, and the sheep are never safe."

Arya Stark

Offline FilaFubu

  • Guest
  • *
  • 20
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2019, 06:04:17 »
Hi guys, I'm just looking for some independent/neutral opinions on this certain piece from the Kashmir conflict, since both medias are inflating some news with bias and misreporting some events.
__________

An Indian Air Force (IAF) Mi17 helicopter crashed some 200km inside Indian Kashmir, around the same time Indian officials say that Pakistan Air Force (PAF) conducted strikes inside India.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/iaf-jet-crashes-in-budgam-district-of-kashmir/articleshow/68179821.cms

IAF says the helicopter crashed due to technical faults. But rumors on the Pakistani side claim that the heli was shot down either by PAF in an air-to-air kill or by a rebel manpad.

One of the images from the wreck show a large hole in the airframe which some believe can only be caused by the penetration of a missile,
https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/8a52e1ba-8461-4702-8fde-feea0f6734ae-jpeg.543580/

Just wondering what you guys make of this?

Thanks


Online milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 422,770
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,163
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2019, 07:46:04 »
Hi guys, I'm just looking for some independent/neutral opinions on this certain piece from the Kashmir conflict, since both medias are inflating some news with bias and misreporting some events
__________

An Indian Air Force (IAF) Mi17 helicopter crashed some 200km inside Indian Kashmir, around the same time Indian officials say that Pakistan Air Force (PAF) conducted strikes inside India ...
Next to no coverage of this outside "backyard" media, especially given the bigger events in the area -- Janes had a brief up for a while (screen capture attached - link is to a Google Cache version while it lasts), but it seems to be no longer posted.

Meanwhile, bellingcat (OSINT folks) looks over the open source imagery to assess the odds of an F-16 having been shot down, as a few on social media claim, rather than a Mig-21.  Summary:  "...  there’s no compelling evidence offered as of yet that an F-16 would have been shot down, and all signs point to MiG-21 wreckage having been on display thus far."
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline FilaFubu

  • Guest
  • *
  • 20
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2019, 08:24:33 »
Next to no coverage of this outside "backyard" media, especially given the bigger events in the area -- Janes had a brief up for a while (screen capture attached - link is to a Google Cache version while it lasts), but it seems to be no longer posted.
I was asking specifically about "the hole" in the wreckage.

Other Indian media sources say 6 IAF personnel on board all dead.

More pictures of the crash at Budgam,
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRXyZvwTKkHD8IZ1hYE-CPEAW_Wwifx2YZz0xudlKABhMKz_jDN

https://img.etimg.com/thumb/msid-68180972,width-640,resizemode-4,imgsize-352082/crash-location.jpg

https://m.hindustantimes.com/rf/image_size_960x540/HT/p2/2019/02/27/Pictures/iaf-chopper-crashes-in-budgam_6b17cbe6-3ab4-11e9-9798-f85edb62de22.jpg

A video of the crash wreckage,
https://youtu.be/WrcYPzNYUzw
Originally, it was reported as another Mig-21 crash (this is in Indian Kashmir, separate from the crash in Pakistani Kashmir), but you can clearly see the rotor blades of the heli in the wreckage.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 08:32:13 by FilaFubu »

Offline Retired AF Guy

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 50,720
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,733
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2019, 21:21:10 »
I was asking specifically about "the hole" in the wreckage.

IIRC most (but not all) Manpads missiles use impact/proximity fuses. So, if a Manpads missile brought it down you would probably wouldn't see one big hole, but several smaller holes caused by warhead fragmentation.
"Leave one wolf alive, and the sheep are never safe."

Arya Stark

Online Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 214,655
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,168
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: India and Pakistan - Border Clashes 2019
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2019, 21:43:57 »
The first picture doesn’t look like the same area surrounding the video and other photos, so hard to confirm if the apparent puncture on the tail boom is the same event.  While the puncture looks significant, it clears the upper portion of the tail boom that contains the tail rotor shaft and the boom is otherwise intact longitudinally, so it could also be a blunt puncture by an object on the ground.  Even if it was an un-fused munition (RPG, etc.) it would have appeared to pass straight through the boom, missing the tail shaft and tail rotor pitch controls.  The report mentions poor weather, which is either: a) true and thus unrelated to the PAF, or b: untrue/unrelated and caused by something other than a PAF aircraft shooting something through the relatively narrow structure of the tail boom with a weapon that passed through the boom kinetically (vice explosively).  Like others, I’d expect to see a lot more fragmentary warhead damage if something hit the helicopter.

:2c:

Regards
G2G
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 22:12:04 by Good2Golf »