Author Topic: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops  (Read 7506 times)

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« on: December 02, 2018, 10:46:05 »
Yup  :nod:

Presidents Need to Visit the Troops


It’s how commanders in chief show soldiers they’re not forgotten.

And yet presidents need to visit the troops—it is a vital thing to do. Part of this is simply good leadership, because despite the cynics, most of the grunts want to see their president. For one thing, a president is, by definition, a celebrity, and the troops love celebrities—television or film stars, singers, you name it. They want the selfies and the signatures, and they get a kick out of watching the president serve Thanksgiving dinner or mug with a sweating, oil-stained mechanic. In that respect, they do not differ from their contemporaries in the civilian world.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/trump-needs-visit-troops/576973/
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2018, 11:07:14 »
I'm not sure why you left out the introduction, which from my experience, says it all.
Quote
Battlefield tourism  is the sour term occasionally used by soldiers when some group of distinguished visitors shows up in the deserts of Iraq or the mountains of Afghanistan. From the soldiers’ point of view, the itinerant pundits or officials are a nuisance. They require special care and handling, they ask dumb questions, they take up the time of harried commanders and sleep-deprived intelligence briefers, and they really don’t get what this enterprise is all about. The visitors will probably go back and brag about their time under fire when they have just been lounging around a safe forward operating base—but if they do force their way to a place where bombs go off or snipers shoot, they can be a real menace to others as well as themselves.

And it wasn't just celebrities or politicians, it's the Staff Annoyance Visits from military chair-warmers trying to rack up 32  days in-theatre, to qualify for bling.

A pox on the lot of 'em!     


[Unless this is some back-door effort to get Trump killed off...which, like the hand-wringing (gleeful or fearful) about the Dems having sufficient strength to impeach Trump, is the very last thing anyone should hope for -- Pence becoming President ...by any means!   Not discussing further, as I try  to avoid the recurring train-wreck that is US Politics threads] 
It should now be obvious that running a country is NOT an entry-level job.  [Yes, it applies to both sides of our border]

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2018, 15:36:56 »
The President or PM/GG should be dropping in to say hello etc. The “military tourists “  ie a bunch of officers -need to stay home.
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Online tomahawk6

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 17:39:41 »
Historically previous Presidents have visited the troops at least for a photo op, this year at Christmas might be a good time for Trump to stop in at Afghanistan. But he could also send the VP or Mattis out to visit the troops.

Offline FJAG

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2018, 17:51:22 »
Historically previous Presidents have visited the troops at least for a photo op, this year at Christmas might be a good time for Trump to stop in at Afghanistan. But he could also send the VP or Mattis out to visit the troops.

The VP and Mattis should certainly get out there and do that. (and I'm sure Mattis has already done so several times.)

On the other hand, if there is a perception that Trump is "sending them in his place" then he deserves to be roundly criticized for not doing his job. If he can go to all the political rallies that he attends and the weekly golf trips he could easily make it down to Fort Bragg and meet XVIII Airborne Corps or JSOC or head over to MacDill and visit CENTCOM to meet some of the folks.

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2018, 18:14:39 »
Trump prides himself on being savvy on military matters and talks to his generals all the time.  Maybe they're telling him to "stay home"?
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 18:15:32 »
2019 is election time so expect to see Trump among the troops. He has done pretty well in that regard in his tenure.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2018, 18:23:46 »
They want the selfies and the signatures, and they get a kick out of watching the president serve Thanksgiving dinner or mug with a sweating, oil-stained mechanic.

He gave them a telephone call from Mar-a-Lago.
https://www.google.com/search?ei=RmkEXKXYMoOAtQXPoaDQCg&q=+troops+thanksgiving+trump&oq=+troops+thanksgiving+trump&gs_l=psy-ab.12...16582.22162..23470...0.0..0.88.250.3......0....1j2..gws-wiz.......0j0i7i30j0i30j0i8i30j0i22i30.j_74i5fBgsQ

That's the next best thing.

Interesting quote about "Battlefield tourism" in Reply #1.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 18:28:54 by mariomike »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 18:45:40 »
I'm not sure why you left out the introduction, which from my experience, says it all.
And it wasn't just celebrities or politicians, it's the Staff Annoyance Visits from military chair-warmers trying to rack up 32  days in-theatre, to qualify for bling.

A pox on the lot of 'em!     


[Unless this is some back-door effort to get Trump killed off...which, like the hand-wringing (gleeful or fearful) about the Dems having sufficient strength to impeach Trump, is the very last thing anyone should hope for -- Pence becoming President ...by any means!   Not discussing further, as I try  to avoid the recurring train-wreck that is US Politics threads] 

At the Company level I enjoyed receiving BFTs at the 'frontline FOB'.

Whenever possible, I would substitute them in for a soldier scheduled to head out on a local town patrol ... 'here, take my flak jacket, chest rig and rifle'.

Funny, after awhile, the numbers of BFTs tended to drop off...  ;D
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline mariomike

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2018, 19:13:01 »
the troops love celebrities—television or film stars, singers, you name it.

Pretty hard to top Bob Hope when he brought Raquel Welch to entertain the military in Vietnam for Christmas 1967.  :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDlBIqRPX_c


« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 19:18:29 by mariomike »

Offline FJAG

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2018, 20:33:58 »
Pretty hard to top Bob Hope when he brought Raquel Welch to entertain the military in Vietnam for Christmas 1967.  :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDlBIqRPX_c

Joey Heatherton!!



Video link below:

https://youtu.be/wU3l9bpDtnM

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 21:27:58 by FJAG »
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Offline reverse_engineer

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2018, 21:07:27 »
At the Company level I enjoyed receiving BFTs at the 'frontline FOB'.

Whenever possible, I would substitute them in for a soldier scheduled to head out on a local town patrol ... 'here, take my flak jacket, chest rig and rifle'.

Funny, after awhile, the numbers of BFTs tended to drop off...  ;D

Awesome!  ;D

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2018, 23:10:39 »
Awesome!  ;D

Yes, it was.

Even better, we had a Gung Ho Asst Adjt on one of my tours (a female) who was always down doing patrols with us at 'ground zero'. Unarmed, because the policy was that female troops and police would not be armed as they were considered 'non combatants (like a 1000lb IED can tell the difference, right?).

I finally started sending copies of our patrol program to her directly, copy the Adjt, Ops O and CO, to try and shame the rest of them into joining us occasionally, which they did not (because they were careerist cowards hiding behind the 'I'm so busy' excuse, IMHO).

 
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Online tomahawk6

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2018, 23:21:37 »
Its important for staff officers in a combat zone to try and get a feel for what the troops are dealing with.Flip side I remember when I served in Korea Staff officers would schedule trips to the DMZ so as to qualify for combat pay,which I think is/was abhorrent. A Colonel or BG for example gets paid pretty well so why does he need an extra $200 ? Its unnecessary and it creates
an undue burden on the troops being visited,as the VIP's needed security.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 05:27:36 »
Garbage sweeps as far as the eye can see.

Rearranging piles of sandbags to look neater.

Rearranging piles of scrap wood to look like organized piles of scrap wood.

Raking stones in stone parking lots.

Days off lost it they coincide with a visit because you have to appear busy 24/7




Always a pleasure when visitors visit   ;D
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 06:57:14 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2018, 10:33:34 »
Garbage sweeps as far as the eye can see.

Rearranging piles of sandbags to look neater.

Rearranging piles of scrap wood to look like organized piles of scrap wood.

Raking stones in stone parking lots.

Days off lost it they coincide with a visit because you have to appear busy 24/7




Always a pleasure when visitors visit   ;D

For the win!  :nod:
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2018, 10:38:27 »
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Online tomahawk6

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2018, 11:19:36 »
Don't PM's have a political need to be seen with the Forces ?

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2018, 11:35:23 »
Don't PM's have a political need to be seen with the Forces ?

 :rofl:

Thanks, T6! I needed a good laugh!

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2018, 13:01:31 »
Don't PM's have a political need to be seen with the Forces ?

Thanks for that. We tend to forget our own transgressions while pointing out the fault in others. Especially, when we really have nothing to crow about or anyone smart enough to compete.
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2018, 13:40:15 »
He went to Latvia to visit the troops last July and I seem to remember a trip to each of Esquimalt and our training mission in the Ukraine and the reopening of the Voltigeurs de Quebec Armoury.

I don't like the guy and you may call these photo ops but he's been getting around.

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« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 13:50:34 by FJAG »
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2018, 14:28:25 »
Don't get me wrong, my reaction to T6's comment was not that PM's haven't visited the troops before - including the current one - it was aimed at the "political need to be seen" doing it.

The Canadian population generally cares about the well being and morale of soldiers so much that, other than giving full respect to those who are killed in the line of duty, they generally couldn't care less how politicians and the military interact. Thus, wether a PM ever visits the troops or not is totally ignored by media and population and carries no political weight whatsoever when voting time or "holding politicians accountable" time comes around.

Ever watch New Year special shows on TV on New Year or New Year eve's? It's CTV that intersperses clips of CAF members serving abroad giving wishes of the season to Canadians - not CBC. That should tell you every thing you need to know right there. 

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2018, 19:39:59 »
Interesting post. I never really noticed that about CBC. When they had production control over HNIC, there were often clips from overseas...has Rogers discontinued that?
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2018, 19:50:16 »
Thanks for that. We tend to forget our own transgressions while pointing out the fault in others. Especially, when we really have nothing to crow about or anyone smart enough to compete.

I personally met our head of state, the GG, in Jerusalem and was in Amman when he was there visiting troops and remember trudeau going to Latvia.

https://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2018/07/10/prime-minister-concludes-successful-visit-latvia

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2018, 20:12:22 »
He went to Latvia to visit the troops last July and I seem to remember a trip to each of Esquimalt and our training mission in the Ukraine and the reopening of the Voltigeurs de Quebec Armoury.

I don't like the guy and you may call these photo ops but he's been getting around.

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Not long ago i was present when he visited some police officers undergoing in service training. It was on one of the “private business” days or however the PM’s public schedule terms it. There was nothing in it for him (besides a bit of fun I suppose), it wasn’t publicized or used for a photo op or anything. It wasn’t a dog and pony and didn’t really disrupt what was going on much. He simply of his own volition came out to see ‘the troops’ doing troop stuff when he didn’t have to and there was no expectation of it. I still don’t have a high opinion of the guy’s politics and at this rate he’s not getting my vote, but I do respect the act for what it was, and having been on the ground it felt genuine.
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2018, 01:05:32 »
Sadly due to the demise of conscription we may not see another President who has had military service.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2018, 01:08:27 »
Sadly due to the demise of conscription we may not see another President who has had military service.

Or who has dodged the draft....
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2018, 02:23:19 »
Or who has dodged the draft....
Or who has recieved a deferment.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2018, 08:35:12 »
Not so sure about that. 

Plenty of politicians have military experience.  And with things like the Gulf wars, Iraq and Afghanistan we may see more in the future.

I think it is more of a function that maybe Americans don't care anymore if their politicians have that experience like they did in the past.  Trump supporters at the very least don't seem to mind a president who does not visit troops, makes fun of Gold star parents, war heroes and distinguished military career types.

John McCain ran against Obama.  Obama had zero military experience and won.  His supporters didn't seem to care much about that sort of thing either. 

Edit: The point about conscription is actually a good one.  If your kids are going to be drafted you might want a leader who understands the military or has experienced it.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 08:39:32 by Remius »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2018, 08:55:07 »
Edit: The point about conscription is actually a good one.  If your kids are going to be drafted you might want a leader who understands the military or has experienced it.

Which is why the British Royals all do some kind of military service.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

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Offline FJAG

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2018, 22:00:55 »


Quote
Governor General visits 17 Wing

. . .

Wing commander Col. Eric Charron was glad the Governor General took the time to meet with members in-person.

"Seeing the people, shaking hands, asking them what gets them excited about their job and giving them a chance to see someone of that importance really paying attention to their day-to-day jobs," he said. "We’re very happy to have her here."

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/our-communities/metro/Governor-General-visits-17-Wing-501798652.html

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« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 22:03:33 by FJAG »
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2018, 22:22:51 »
Works for me.

After all, unlike the PM, she IS our Commander in chief, as representative of the Queen of Canada.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2018, 11:58:34 »
Works for me.

After all, unlike the PM, she IS our Commander in chief, as representative of the Queen of Canada.

Yup. Good on her!
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Online Blackadder1916

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2018, 13:56:34 »
Pressing the flesh is one thing, then there's a whole other way of interacting with the troops.

https://www.gg.ca/en/activities/2018/visit-newfoundland-and-labrador
Quote
September 21, 2018

The Governor General learned about Labrador’s rich Indigenous history through the exhibits on display at the Labrador Interpretation Centre. While visiting Canadian Armed Forces personnel at 5 Wing Goose Bay, she participated in a familiarization flight on board a CH-146 Griffon helicopter.

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2018, 14:00:24 »
Pressing the flesh is one thing, then there's a whole other way of interacting with the troops.

https://www.gg.ca/en/activities/2018/visit-newfoundland-and-labrador


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Offline Brihard

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2018, 19:01:37 »
Credit where it’s due.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/trudeau-pays-surprise-pre-christmas-visit-to-troops-in-mali-1.4229028?fbclid=IwAR0X724kRjCS5lT9FcK2Wxa89JbOYUbSpf8TEhP8yO40wxwFedaXZMjdi-M

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau paid a surprise pre-Christmas visit to Canadian troops in Mali on Saturday.

Trudeau shared a turkey dinner with the soldiers stationed at Camp Castor near Gao. He thanked them for their service and dropped off a foosball table, CTV’s Glen McGregor reports from Africa.

The delegation, which has since left Mali, also included Minister of National Defence Harjit Sajjan and Chief of Defence Staff Jonathan Vance. They were on the ground for about five hours, during which Trudeau met with Malian president Soumeylou Boubeye Maiga.

Canada joined the dangerous United Nations peacekeeping mission in Mali in June, with a one-year commitment. Trudeau would not say Saturday whether he plans to extend the mission past July.

The Canadian Forces have six helicopters and approximately 250 military personnel in the African country, which has been destabilized by poverty, drought and Islamic extremism.

A total of 177 peacekeepers have been killed since the international peacekeeping mission began in 2013.

The main contributors to the 15,000-strong UN force are nearby African countries. Bangladesh, China and Germany also have a significant presence.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2018, 21:34:22 »
Whereas you-know-who, before the budget/wall debacle, had planned on 16 days and nights at Mar-a-Lago.  :facepalm:

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2018, 21:54:48 »
Canadians eat turkey during the holidays ? :D

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2018, 18:13:57 »
Canadians eat turkey during the holidays ? :D

There's a brief span of months from mid July to late October where they can survive up here, and we get enough of the migratory variety that Turkey for Christmas caught on fairly easily. Generally they're harvested late October before they start heading south again and are frozen for sale. That's why our grocery stores generally have quite an array of frozen turkey in the latter half of December.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2018, 18:19:47 »
Do you prefer turkey or ham for Xmas or perhaps prime rib ?

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2018, 18:33:06 »
Turducken.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2018, 22:28:33 »
Do you prefer turkey or ham for Xmas or perhaps prime rib ?

It's not a matter of having to choose. Christmas eve dinner is a large ham while Christmas day dinner is a turkey. After that its just pounds and pounds of ham and turkey leftovers in many imaginative variations.   ;D

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2018, 23:01:41 »
Sounds good to me. :christmas happy:

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2018, 14:36:52 »
President Trump and wife are on the ground now in Iraq.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 14:41:55 by Rifleman62 »
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #45 on: December 26, 2018, 15:09:29 »
Very good. The visit should boost morale.

https://www.foxnews.com/

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2018, 21:43:34 »
Very good. The visit should boost morale.

https://www.foxnews.com/

It may have.  It may have also exposed that a team was in Al Asad Airbase thanks to a photo op.  I'm personally taking this with a grain of salt b/c it wasn't like there was a huge banner saying "SEAL Team 5 and POTUS 2018!", but it still seems weird to not have faces blurred.

Quote
In the pool report of the trip — which was embargoed to help protect the Trumps’ safety in Iraq — the president asked the chaplain of Seal Team 5, Lieutenant Commander Kyu Lee, to take a picture with him, revealing the presence of the special-ops team at the al-Asad Airbase in western Iraq. When Trump left Iraqi airspace, he posted a video in which he and the First Lady pause for photos with members of Seal Team 5, decked out in full battle gear and night-vision goggles.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/trump-exposes-location-identities-of-navy-seals-in-iraq.html?utm_campaign=nym&utm_medium=s1&utm_source=fb&fbclid=IwAR0fRdtSzx_L09GxrgpIX_zPGLdR9P1xU-7a28kmjvk-XUBuYRJx3di6Zhk
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2018, 07:32:18 »
It may have.  It may have also exposed that a team was in Al Asad Airbase thanks to a photo op.  I'm personally taking this with a grain of salt b/c it wasn't like there was a huge banner saying "SEAL Team 5 and POTUS 2018!", but it still seems weird to not have faces blurred.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/trump-exposes-location-identities-of-navy-seals-in-iraq.html?utm_campaign=nym&utm_medium=s1&utm_source=fb&fbclid=IwAR0fRdtSzx_L09GxrgpIX_zPGLdR9P1xU-7a28kmjvk-XUBuYRJx3di6Zhk

I've come to dislike Donald Trump.  I am glad he visited the troops which was something long overdue.  The criticism levelled at him for that is fair game as far as I am concerned.  But the media is tripping over themselves to find every little thing they can to diminish his visit.

Someone, should have properly briefed the President on OPSEC policies, the SEALs probably should not have put themselves in that situation to begin with or at least they should have had a PR (PAFFO type) deal with that.  The president will take the blame but really the handlers and staff should have dealt with all of that.   I also would not have known that SEAL Team 5 was there until the media reported it...

Good on him for finally going (probably because of the bad press but I digress) but the logistics and security issues are someone else's fault. 
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2018, 08:32:15 »
Quote
Good on him for finally going (probably because of the bad press but I digress) ......

What do you mean by that? Reports started by NBC on 26 Dec, and picked up by all the MSN, David Akin in Canada, Twitter, etc slamming Trump for not visiting the troops at Christmas?

He and his wife (the first "First Lady" to visit a combat zone) were on Air Force One and almost in Iraq when the reports started. You don't get a POTUS visit off the cuff.

Trump signed MAGA hats the troops had (not as MSN reported that Trump gave them out), had a photo Op with SEALS, only visited as he was outed by MSN, and whatever else the MSN can dig up because they hate him. Some journalism.

Meanwhile Trudeau continues to smile and walks on water according to our loving Cdn MSN who spend all their time mimicking the US MSN on Trump.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 08:38:24 by Rifleman62 »
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2018, 08:38:57 »
What do you mean by that? Reports started by NBC on 26 Dec, and picked up by all the MSN, David Akin in Canada, Twitter, etc slamming Trump for not visiting the troops at Christmas?

He and his wife (the first "First Lady" to visit a combat zone) were on Air Force One and almost in Iraq when the reports started. You don't get a POTUS visit off the cuff.

no, those reports and criticisms go back a bit.  Over a month ago.  Probably started more or less after Rememberance day.

Here is just one...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-told-aides-hes-afraid-to-visit-troops-in-combat-zones-report

and another by the Washington post dated Nov 22nd

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/11/20/why-lincoln-eisenhower-obama-visited-troops-combat-trump-hasnt/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.aa2edd3a0109

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2018, 08:40:02 »
#1: Good on the President and the First Lady travelling to see the troops.  Like some others, while I may not be a fan on many of POTUS 45’s actions, good to see him visit the troops...and good on Melania as well.  She mights not have been the most enthusiastic visitor to the AO, but she was there.  To be honest, while PMJT visited Mali, going to Africa and seeing the children of the Region would have been something I would have thought would be right up Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau’s singing.....’idiom...’

#2: OPSEC - well...in this day and age, is it really an operations security contravention to know that Force elements you’d expect to be in an AO are known to be in an AO by statements (yes, tweets, but could be considered as statements nonetheless) if not specifically tied to an operation (not the big ‘OP SOMETHING’ named
op, but an op op)?  Would we also be up in arms in the POTUS were toswing NorthEast to AFG and tweeted a picture of him with some ST5 or ST6 bubbas at Bagram?  So, shock and surprise that non-conventional forces are operating out of Al Asan? Al Ain? Al Udeid? Khandahar? Solerno? Bagram? etc.? 

:2c:

Regards
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2018, 08:43:46 »
I was going to add that I am sure SEALS and other Special Operators are deployed almost everywhere US forces are deployed.

Just Google SEALS/Trump and you will find pages of MSN going nuts.

Quote
no, those reports and criticisms go back a bit

Yes, the WP, a paper bought by Amazon owner to slam Trump and the Republicans. The US MSN is insane with TDS.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 08:47:22 by Rifleman62 »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2018, 09:01:12 »
Good article on the use of the word covert.

Quote
No, Trump Didn’t Reveal A ‘Covert’ Navy SEAL Team In Iraq

“Covert” has a very specific definition under Title 50 of the United States Code, which makes it a matter of intelligence authority, focused primarily on the activities of state organs like the Central Intelligence Agency (with some input from the DoD); this is a direct contrast to Title 10 of the USC, which deals solely with military authority. Title 10 “is used colloquially to refer to DoD and military operations,” as the Harvard National Security Journal puts it, while Title 50 “refers to intelligence agencies, intelligence activities, and covert action.”

While the two authorities detailed under Titles 10 and 50 aren’t mutually exclusive, forces operating under Title 10 are explicitly prohibited from carrying out covert operations, instead relegated to clandestine activities which involve “the tactical concealment of the activity” and don’t require an explicit notification of Congress, according to an April 2018 Congressional Research Service report.

“By comparison, covert activities can be characterized as the strategic concealment of the United States’ sponsorship of activities that aim to effect change in the political, economic, military, or diplomatic behavior of an overseas target.”

As it stands, the vast majority missions carried out by U.S. special operations forces are non-statutory clandestine operations under Title 10 rather than explicitly (and legally) covert operations under Title 50; OPSEC, in the case of the former, is usually designed to conceal an operation for tactical purposes rather than fully embrace the level of plausible deniability usually referred to spies. In this context, the only true “covert” operation carried out by U.S. special operations forces was the SEAL Team 6 raid on Osama Bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in 2011.

Simply belonging to a SEAL Team doesn’t make your every move “covert,” especially if you’re hanging out in the DFAC during the commander-in-chief’s visit.

https://taskandpurpose.com/trump-reveals-navy-seals-iraq/


Pretty lame picture if you ask me. NVGs, chest rigs, ammo, no guns? Inside a DFAC? Can't get much more dog and pony than that. Maybe some of them should have had scuba tanks and flippers on  ;D


As for opsec local workers and employees aren't stupid. They can tell the difference between an Airforce security force dude and a special operations dude. A few minutes of parading these guys around base all kitted up in sight of locals (ie KBR kitchen staff) and the cats out of the bag for sure.
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2018, 09:03:36 »
I was going to add that I am sure SEALS and other Special Operators are deployed almost everywhere US forces are deployed.

Just Google SEALS/Trump and you will find pages of MSN going nuts.

Yes, the WP, a paper bought by Amazon owner to slam Trump and the Republicans. The US MSN is insane with TDS.

Sure, but it still backs my point that media coverage started well before Dec 26th which is what you stated.  It wasn't just the WP.  I provided two links and can provide more if you like. 

like this one dated way back in October by the military times:  https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10/17/top-senate-democrat-urges-trump-to-visit-troops-fighting-overseas/

Here is their media bias in case you were wondering...  https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/military-times/

But you wanted to know what I meant so I provided the context for my comment.  We'll never know but I am sure the negative press in and around thanksgiving over his not visiting the troops since taking office (over 2 years) was a factor.

Good for him.  I applaud it and support it even though it took longer than it should have.  If you read my post you'll see that I agree that the media is trying what they can to paint it in a bad light despite it being the right thing to do.
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2018, 09:15:51 »
Quote
We'll never know but I am sure the negative press in and around thanksgiving over his not visiting the troops since taking office (over 2 years) was a factor.

I believe you mean not visiting the troops in a Combat Zone since taking office. Trump has visiting the troops many times since taking office. He visited a USCG station Thanksgiving, 22 Nov 18. One of several visits to the USCG since taking office, let alone visiting the other branches.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2018, 09:19:53 »
I believe you mean not visiting the troops in a Combat Zone since taking office. Trump has visiting the troops many times since taking office. He visited a USCG station Thanksgiving, 22 Nov 18. One of several visits to the USCG since taking office, let alone visiting the other branches.

Sure.  But you and I and most people both know what we are talking about here.
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2018, 09:23:13 »
No, I don't.

You realize that the troops in Iraq are also being criticized by the MSN (after they found out that Trump didn't distribute the MAGA hats) for breaking rules on political activity by asking Trump to sign their MAGA hats (and flags).
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2018, 09:29:51 »
Yes, the WP, a paper bought by Amazon owner to slam Trump and the Republicans. The US MSN is insane with TDS.
Some people are capable of viewing it as a continuum  ---  yes, some people will foam at the mouth, critiquing anything and everything done by Trump, while others are worshipfully incapable of seeing anything flawed in his policies and behaviours.  I don't give much credence to either end of the spectrum.

Is the mainstream media picking on Trump?  Probably, but only if you admit that Fox & Friends et al  aren't legitimate media.  For chuckles, go to YouTube and look at some of the annual White House Correspondents' Dinners during Obama's time.  He got 'picked on' too -- some people view the role of an independent media to hold leaderships' feet to the fire -- but Obama was psychologically able to joke about it  (don't bother trying to find an equivalent video with Trump; he's never attended).

As for MSN's 'biased' reporting, on this SEAL Team 5 issue their article includes:
Quote
President Trump exposed the faces of members of U.S. Navy SEAL Team 5, possibly putting them in danger, an expert said.

AND

A retired San Diego-area SEAL officer... said the episode was "much ado about nothing.  It’s no secret that SEAL Team 5 is in Iraq," he said. "You can ask anybody in Coronado."
That seems like telling both sides of the story to me, but then, I tend to get my news from various sources and perspectives and try not to spend too much time at either unthinking end of the spectrum.



(In this instance, I personally agree with the SEAL officer's comment:  "There’s plenty of things to get upset about with Trump, and this was not one of them.")
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 09:32:34 by Journeyman »
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Offline Remius

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2018, 09:36:55 »
No, I don't.

You realize that the troops in Iraq are also being criticized by the MSN (after they found out that Trump didn't distribute the MAGA hats) for breaking rules on political activity by asking Trump to sign their MAGA hats (and flags).

Ah.  Ok. Maybe re-read some of the posts here if you don't get it.  The title of the thread is also a good indicator of what we are talking about.  there is also wide spread coverage and critiques about the President not visiting troops in war zones. This is what I was referring to and the context of that discussion.  The internet and typing can also lose some things in translation I guess.

Yes about the media.  Not sure why you are bringing it up given my stance on the media in this instance.  I wasn't arguing that.  In fact I am siding with you on that.  Once again I answered your question to my initial comment with what I thought was a satisfactory answer backed up with a few facts.  I guess we are in violent agreement on that?
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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2018, 10:14:01 »
I was pointing out Trump has visited the troops; only once in a combat zone.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Presidents Need to Visit the Troops
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2018, 10:16:33 »
I was pointing out Trump has visited the troops; only once in a combat zone.

Yes.  And some media outlets are scrambling to correct their coverage which was likely already written assuming he was going to miss another opportunity to visit the troops during a holiday.  Egg on their faces indeed.
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