Author Topic: Gun Control: US and Global II  (Read 9062 times)

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Online kkwd

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #75 on: April 21, 2019, 13:49:51 »
a)  I can live with that;

b)  Insulting you could be considered a 'personal attack' under the site's regulations.  Rather, I was suggesting that if you don't like the quality of political reporting from Yahoo's Entertainment people, etc, perhaps you should consider upping your game for what sources of journalism you choose to read.  Naturally, it's completely up to you.

You didn't get it did you? I chose this particular piece on purpose. I was not endorsing Yahoo Entertainment as a source of news. Sometimes over analysis of a post leads to misunderstanding. Didn't I not sufficiently explain myself with the quotation marks? Maybe I should have used some emoticons but I stay away from them as much as possible.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #76 on: April 21, 2019, 15:48:28 »
I really think people over estimate the "positive" reaction a US Government sanctioned gun grab would get from US Military people. 

I would predict vast swaths of the US Military and Police Forces simply disregarding or outright resisting and such direction or order on the basis of their oath to defend the constitution.

This is the crux of the gun issue in the USA IMHO.  You can not take forceful action against firearms or it leads to open and violent insurrection in that country.  I see no other outcome.
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Online kkwd

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #77 on: April 21, 2019, 17:02:33 »
I really think people over estimate the "positive" reaction a US Government sanctioned gun grab would get from US Military people. 

I would predict vast swaths of the US Military and Police Forces simply disregarding or outright resisting and such direction or order on the basis of their oath to defend the constitution.

This is the crux of the gun issue in the USA IMHO.  You can not take forceful action against firearms or it leads to open and violent insurrection in that country.  I see no other outcome.

Rep Eric Swalwell is running for president in the next election you may have heard. The top item on his campaign site is called "Ending gun violence".

https://ericswalwell.com/my-plan/
Quote
Ending Gun Violence

No more turning a blind eye to American lives stolen by gun violence. We must enact truly universal background checks for all gun and ammunition purchases, do more to take guns away from domestic abusers, push states to adopt gun violence restraining order laws, and remove weapons of war from our communities once and for all. I’m the only candidate calling for a mandatory national ban and buyback of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons.
I can't figure out in this how his policy would ever end gun violence. He advocates a buyback of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons, whatever that is. But it seems to be is should be called confiscation, the government can't buy back what they never owned in the first place. They belong to individual citizens and such a proposal would make them criminals overnight.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 17:06:10 by kkwd »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #78 on: April 21, 2019, 17:58:07 »
KKWD I like the article you posted because to me it highlights how self-important we've become. The people reacting to Chuck Norris's announcement I mean.

"I'm unsubscribing from you!" - I think Mr Norris will survive.

Quote
“Chuck shouldn't be working with gun companies at a time like this,” wrote a commenter, who — like Norris — is a martial artist. “He should be advocating ways to keep his gun loving friends from possible becoming surprising random mental health people that use guns to kill others and children. Please tell me Chuck, that you do something like that for the kids at least and aren't all about the money. I mean no wonder Bruce Lee died....he wasn't like all these a holes, just about the [money].”

Riiiiight.


Mass shootings in the US, horrific as they are, are an insignificant number compared to where the majority of shootings are coming from.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 18:03:02 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #79 on: April 21, 2019, 23:20:03 »
" advocating a buy back of military style, semi automatic, assault weapon.

It won't be a buy back. It'll be a $25 convenience fee for them not having to come take them. A true buyback of blue book value would be beyond the reach of any system. Given the ignorants' ever shifting definition of assault weapons, given the amount of AR's and variants alone numbering in millions, no goverment could afford it.

I won't even attempt to parse his definition, other than to say, military style and semi automatic don't belong in the definition of assault weapons. We've been down that road here more than once here and I doubt anyone's thoughts on it have changed very much.




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Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2019, 10:23:08 »
I really think people over estimate the "positive" reaction a US Government sanctioned gun grab would get from US Military people. 

I would predict vast swaths of the US Military and Police Forces simply disregarding or outright resisting and such direction or order on the basis of their oath to defend the constitution.

This is the crux of the gun issue in the USA IMHO.  You can not take forceful action against firearms or it leads to open and violent insurrection in that country.  I see no other outcome.

Not to mention there is tons of citizens in the USA who did serve at some point and would not be willing to accept that as well. When you have a military of 1 million troops, and your system is designed and optimized for quick rotations (3 years and out if you like), you end up with a lot of trained citizens on the streets. 7.3% of all Americans have served (specifically 1.4% of females and 13.4% of males) which is a large amount who would also likely resist.

Online kkwd

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #81 on: April 24, 2019, 05:46:01 »
Quote
Fear & Loading: Chuck Norris vs. President Trump in Indianapolis?

Who wins?

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/4/12/fear-loading-chuck-norris-vs-president-trump-in-indianapolis/
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2019, 21:49:11 »
" advocating a buy back of military style, semi automatic, assault weapon.

It won't be a buy back. It'll be a $25 convenience fee for them not having to come take them. A true buyback of blue book value would be beyond the reach of any system. Given the ignorants' ever shifting definition of assault weapons, given the amount of AR's and variants alone numbering in millions, no goverment could afford it.

I won't even attempt to parse his definition, other than to say, military style and semi automatic don't belong in the definition of assault weapons. We've been down that road here more than once here and I doubt anyone's thoughts on it have changed very much.

yep let say an average price of $700 per gun x 350-400 million = $245,000,000,000.00 (at 350)

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2019, 22:30:23 »
Toronton will be holding a gun buy back.

$250 for a rifle, $350 for a pistol.

There's a Canadian company that's selling pistol frames for $49. You need to register pistol frames with the RCMP, so, considered guns?
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #84 on: April 27, 2019, 07:55:40 »
Toronton will be holding a gun buy back.

$250 for a rifle, $350 for a pistol.

There's a Canadian company that's selling pistol frames for $49. You need to register pistol frames with the RCMP, so, considered guns?
Who has frames? Registered portion is the gun.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #85 on: April 27, 2019, 08:05:51 »
Who has frames? Registered portion is the gun.

https://sjhardware.com/product/stripped-tt33-handgun-frame/

You should buy us each one buddy :)

All kidding aside I think gun buy back programs are great. I actually arranged for a guy to turn an unregistered pistol over to the police without repercussion and man it was stressful and intimidating for me and i was the middle man.

The programs are great (as long as jerks like us don't ruin it) but I've also heard of someone being charged for bringing a gun to the police a day before the amnesty started which is pretty stupid.

And there was our own Toronto police selling 'turned in' guns back to the public to 'raise funds' for the department a few years back
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2019, 18:24:05 »
Suspicious visit by the NZ police about firearms. Strange that they didn't want to discuss anything on camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tKEjSVhj-Q&feature=youtu.be



Gun owners upset by 'heavy-handed' police raids complain to IPCA
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/112872575/complaints-about-heavyhanded-raids-on-gun-owners-land-at-ipca

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Offline mariomike

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #88 on: July 02, 2019, 13:35:25 »
Florida paramedics are now armed. The governor signed it into law effective 1 July, 2019.
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2019/07/01/new-law-allows-paramedics-carry-guns-when-responding-high-risk-incidents/

States including Kansas and Ohio already have the same law in place. Similar bills have been proposed in Tennessee, Mississippi and Virginia.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 14:45:47 by mariomike »

Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2019, 17:33:07 »
In the 1920s the Weimar governments of Germany instuted gun control, fast forward to the 1930s and one of the first things the Nazis did was ban ownership completely and go door to door collecting firearms preventing the people from resisting.

While its true the Wiemar Republic had strict gun control measures, its false that the Nazis instituted a total gun ban. In reality for the majority of Germans gun laws were actually relaxed. However, if you were Jewish (or anyone else on the Gestapo's bad books), you had your firearms confiscated. For more info see here, and here.

Quote
Russia, China, Cambodia, etc. Venezuela in 2014 banned firearms ownership, now they under a dictatorship and starving unable to resist.

Cambodians are forbidden from owning firearms. However, Russians and Chinese citizens are allowed to own firearms, however with restrictions (automatic/semi-automatic firearms/handguns forbidden and rifles and shotguns regulated).

According to my link, Venezuelan people are allowed to own firearms, however, I would suspect that if you are a suspected government opponent you will have your firearms confiscated. Government supporter just the opposite.
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2019, 18:38:43 »
Jesus, I can't believe they can legally buy drum magazines for a rifle.  There is literally no reason for that other than to kill a lot of people, very lucky the police happened to be nearby.

Hard to believe a society that doesn't allow anyone to buy a beer until they are 21 will let them buy a rifle and accessories to make it that deadly without any kind of background check.  You need to do more to operate a forklift for gods sake.

For something like mass shootings, stats relating to death per 100,000 is pretty irrelevant.  The US is looking at one every few weeks; that's far more frequent than any comparable country.  The # of fatalities and injuries per incident would be another good one but needs enough incidents to be significant. Examples like the Brevik shooting in Norway or the more recent one in Christchurch were terrible, but are one offs so aren't reasonable comparisons.

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2019, 18:55:47 »
Jesus, I can't believe they can legally buy drum magazines for a rifle.  There is literally no reason for that other than to kill a lot of people, very lucky the police happened to be nearby.

Hard to believe a society that doesn't allow anyone to buy a beer until they are 21 will let them buy a rifle and accessories to make it that deadly without any kind of background check.  You need to do more to operate a forklift for gods sake.

The tipping point was Sandy Hook.  If shooting elementary school kids didn't change the law, nothing will. 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2019, 19:02:59 »
Jesus, I can't believe they can legally buy drum magazines for a rifle.  There is literally no reason for that other than to kill a lot of people, very lucky the police happened to be nearby.


That's an incredibly ridiculous and fear mongering thing to say.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2019, 19:09:09 »
The tipping point was Sandy Hook.  If shooting elementary school kids didn't change the law, nothing will.

President Obama said it was the worst day of his presidency. He said even his Secret Service detail was crying.

Hard to imagine the effect these things must have on the First Responders.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 19:50:07 by mariomike »

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #94 on: August 05, 2019, 19:34:06 »
That's an incredibly ridiculous and fear mongering thing to say.
Disagree here J. Not sure why anyone would need more than what’s allowed for mags here in Canada. High capacity mags are for military and police.


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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #95 on: August 05, 2019, 19:55:30 »
Disagree here J. Not sure why anyone would need more than what’s allowed for mags here in Canada. High capacity mags are for military and police.


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"Need" is always a tricky argument. We can't legally hunt with pistols in Canada and they're the leading firearm used in homicides in the US and Canada by a large margin. (1,517 people have been shot in Chicago this year, most will be handguns) Seems like an argument to ban handguns, but that "why do you need that" can be argued really to ban anything.

As for reloading, some people enjoy spending more time shooting and less time reloading. Some people just don't like reloading.

Having a high capacity magazine doesn't make anyone a murder wannabe anymore than having a large hard drive on a laptop makes someone interested in keeping illegal material on their computers. What happens when someone has a chest rig with 12x 5 round magazines? You can go through 60 rounds pretty quick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT_bSGJ8j9o


I personally think magazine size and some kind of acceptable kill ratio is low hanging fruit and we need to start figuring out why these guys are falling through cracks (or ignored) ref my above post.
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Online RomeoJuliet

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #96 on: August 05, 2019, 19:59:34 »
"Need" is always a tricky argument. We can't legally hunt with pistols in Canada and they're the leading firearm used in homicides in the US and Canada by a large margin. (1,517 people have been shot in Chicago this year, most will be handguns) Seems like an argument to ban handguns, but that "why do you need that" can be argued really to ban anything.

As for reloading, some people enjoy spending more time shooting and less time reloading. Some people just don't like reloading.

Having a high capacity magazine doesn't make anyone a murder wannabe anymore than having a large hard drive on a laptop makes someone interested in keeping illegal material on their computers. What happens when someone has a chest rig with 12x 5 round magazines? You can go through 60 rounds pretty quick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT_bSGJ8j9o


I personally think magazine size and some kind of acceptable kill ratio is low hanging fruit and we need to start figuring out why these guys are falling through cracks (or ignored) ref my above post.
Some good points  here as always. Know that you are very adept at changing mags with a chest rig. But being limited to 5 rounds in each will make it very slow for  the mouth breathing hostile shooter.


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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #97 on: August 05, 2019, 20:54:03 »
Some good points  here as always. Know that you are very adept at changing mags with a chest rig. But being limited to 5 rounds in each will make it very slow for  the mouth breathing hostile shooter.
Fair enough but the thing about those shooters is that with a little free time and some internet access they can watch countless training videos like this Navy SEAL teaching CQB drills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrulFx7mMkU

For someone really motivated and who has some cash to burn you can get courses taught  from ex JTF2, SEALS, SF, Rangers. Tons of training academy's out there that teach shooting, CBQ, pistol and carbine, driving, close protection.

I wouldn't consider him using a "Hunting" 7 shot Remington 870 shotgun with slugs or buck shot instead of an AR15 as some kind of victory. This guy had a kill list and was able to buy a gun, that's something the US needs to sort out.  I'll bounce you a PM about how ridiculous this young offender sealed file BS can be.
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Online RomeoJuliet

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2019, 21:08:43 »
Fair enough but the thing about those shooters is that with a little free time and some internet access they can watch countless training videos like this Navy SEAL teaching CQB drills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrulFx7mMkU

For someone really motivated and who has some cash to burn you can get courses taught  from ex JTF2, SEALS, SF, Rangers. Tons of training academy's out there that teach shooting, CBQ, pistol and carbine, driving, close protection.

I wouldn't consider him using a "Hunting" 7 shot Remington 870 shotgun with slugs or buck shot instead of an AR15 as some kind of victory. This guy had a kill list and was able to buy a gun, that's something the US needs to sort out.  I'll bounce you a PM about how ridiculous this young offender sealed file BS can be.
Aye. I’ve always wondered why someone hasn’t used a shotgun in these types of shooting. Limited range? Too gory? After you’ve fired off your shot too long to reload ( unless you’re Keanu Reeve, that guy is next level).


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Offline mariomike

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Re: Gun Control: US and Global II
« Reply #99 on: August 05, 2019, 21:50:04 »
Not one of the shootings on this list used a shotgun exclusively.

If you had included the word "exclusively" when you asked, I would have searched for exclusive use of a shotgun in mass murders.

Sorry for misunderstanding.

I’ve always wondered why someone hasn’t used a shotgun in these types of shooting.

Edit for clarity.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 13:20:43 by mariomike »