Author Topic: 8 Shot in Toronto  (Read 6164 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 269,426
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,349
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2018, 23:27:50 »
Joe Warmington over at the Toronto Sun seems to be saying something different, however, what he is reporting has not been confirmed.


Seen that.

Goodale is quick to say there's no links to national security, is the investigation already over? Nope. I think he's cleverly meaning there's no "100%" connection "right now", happy to mislead readers. Same way the government tried to mislead people about bill C71.

Speaking of which, the investigation isn't over but he's already talking about a proposed handgun ban. Didn't waste much time there.

What the police apparently are saying definitely isn't what Goodale seems to be pushing.


I thought the family’s statement about this shooter and his mental illness was released quickly and IMO was well worded.......



That was my first impression too.  Super scripted and lawyery.  When I see that scripted response along with this guys apparent online activity, history and criminal record I feel comfortable calling bull crap on the families "we're so surprised, we're totally shocked" attempt.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 01:14:03 by Jarnhamar »
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 161,165
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,733
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2018, 14:56:43 »
Another perspective:

Quote
Terry Glavin: #TorontoStrong can be strong enough to support the shooter's family, too
If people cannot find it within themselves to extend the same compassion to the Hussains that is being shown victims' families, they should be ashamed

To try to look on the bright side, maybe the reason last weekend’s Danforth shooting rampage has pushed some people into an abyss of hysteria is that Toronto truly is one of the world’s great peaceable cities, and the horror of what happened has been just too much of a shock. Maybe it’s got something to do with the ubiquity of rancid disinformation and malicious pseudo-news these days that a meanness and heartlessness so quickly intruded into what was, in the early goings, a moment of shared mourning, a “Toronto Strong” moment of quiet civic decency and resilience.

Maybe the simple, ugly reason that so little sympathy has been on hand for the parents of the severely mentally ill and now-dead shooter — they have another son who has been in a coma for more than a year, and their daughter died in a car accident about five years ago — is that they are Muslim. Or maybe it’s just because it was their son who committed the unconscionable act, that their own crushing anguish and sorrow is cruelly dismissed as somehow less deserving of any public sympathy.


https://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-torontostrong-needs-to-prove-itself-by-embracing-the-shooters-parents?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1532537691
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 269,426
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,349
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2018, 14:57:03 »
Cross posting with the gun control thread a little.


Quote
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/toronto-shooter-s-gun-was-illegal-originally-from-u-s-source-1.4027129#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=EKwgxNe
The gun used to shoot 15 people on a busy Toronto street was likely obtained from a “gang-related source,” according to a person familiar with the case.

CP24 safety specialist Cam Woolley says a police source has told him the semi-automatic handgun used in the shooting is illegal in Canada and was originally from the United States. American authorities are helping track the gun’s exact origin.


So we have an American gun that was illegally brought to Canada. What is Toronto's solution?

Quote
https://globalnews.ca/news/4351297/toronto-handgun-ammunition-ban/
Toronto city council urges upper levels of government to ban sale of guns, ammunition locally
Toronto city council is calling on the upper levels of government to ban the sale of guns and ammunition locally.

In a 41-to-four vote, city council voted to “urge” the federal government to ban handgun sales in Toronto. It also called on the provincial government to ban handgun ammunition sales in the city.


Shooter doesn't have a gun license, cannot legally buy guns or ammo in Canada, obtained a gun illegally which was apparently  brought IN from the US. So the solution is to ban legal handgun sales in Toronto to legal handgun owners.

In the classic words of Ralph Wiggum "I'm helping".

Further more from the first link.
Quote
CTV News has further learned that ammunition and large-capacity magazines were found by police officers searching the apartment Faisal Hussain shared with his parents. Police are also looking into the connection between Hussain’s brother, who is currently in a coma, and a 2017 seizure of more than 30 guns in Pickering, Ont.

More ammunition, illegal magazines (not that there's a huge difference between 10 and 15 round mags), those "clueless parents" and a brother who had 30 guns that were seized. Guessing they weren't legally owned.

Yet who does the Toronto council and Liberal want to want to target? Low hanging fruit because it's easy and makes it look like the city is doing something.

And that's not just woe as me poor hard done by gun owner talking, the logic of this is just retarded.

More and more that family looks shady as crap.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Online garb811

  • MP/MPO Question Answerer
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 69,205
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,375
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2018, 15:05:54 »
Cross posting with the gun control thread a little
...

Which brings up a point; the gun control debate belongs in the Great Gun Control Debate 2.0 thread.

While it is natural there is a bit of overlap in this instance, please try to maintain a separation so that we don’t end up having to go through cleaning up this thread by moving purely gun control debate into that one.

Thanks!

- milnet.ca Staff

Offline RomeoJuliet

  • Donor
  • Full Member
  • *
  • 9,445
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 407
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2018, 15:27:26 »
Which brings up a point; the gun control debate belongs in the Great Gun Control Debate 2.0 thread.

While it is natural there is a bit of overlap in this instance, please try to maintain a separation so that we don’t end up having to go through cleaning up this thread by moving purely gun control debate into that one.

Thanks!

- milnet.ca Staff
Good points. My bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 176,835
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,197
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2018, 19:53:00 »
Borrowing my own reply on this from elsehwere:

Part of Daesh's MO is to claim anything they can. Notably in this case there seems to have been no manifesto, no claim fro the shooter himself, and no claim from Daesh or their ilk concurrent with the event itself. It only came after unidentified police sources quoted in some questionable media alleged that he had some 'interesting' internet activity... Which in and of itself means little.

So at this point we have Daesh saying 'it was us'. We on the contrary have Toronto police saying they have nothing indicating that to be true, and we have the federal minister of public safety's office saying that at this point there is no evident national security nexus.

While I will not speculate about this investigation, I can say with confidence that with this amount of time elapsed it would be reasonable to expect that police have been able to execute search warrants on his residence and have done at least a preliminary extraction and examination of such things as the contents of his computer and potentially other digital devices they have likely had time to examine such things as internet search and browsing history, social media presence, etc. At this point in time if there was a reasonably evident extremist link, it would be reasonable to surmise that police have had ample opportunity to at least preliminarily identify it- enough so, at least, that any wise spokesperson would shy away from denying that one exists.

So I guess it comes down to who you trust more- Daesh; or Toronto Police as well as the department of public safety (encompassing CSIS, RCMP, etc).

There seems to be mounting evidence that he lived at least on the fringes of typical street gang BS, likely had easy enough access to guns through same, and that his brother may have been involved with such matters more deeply and that said brother illegally possessed firearms.

I do not consider the fact that he hit people at close range with a pistol to be evidence of more in terms of training, certainly not any training provided for the intent of terrorism. It isn't hard to teach someone how to feed a handgun, and if you fire enough shots into crowded environments, you will get hits, some of which may be fatal.

It is certainly not impossible nor even implausible that ideological radicalization was a contributing or causal factor. Nor is it implausible tat it wasn't. I personally wait to see evidence of such things, and thus far little if any has been presented, and agencies who know the facts will come out close to fully in time have said that they believe it is not. I consider that more credible than an unsubstantiated Daesh 'we did it'.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Larry Strong

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 226,041
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,676
  • 546 days from 0 to being King of the Castle
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2018, 20:02:22 »
Turns out he had a .40 caliber handgun and seven magazines of rounds. 3 full mags remaining when he died.....

https://torontosun.com/news/crime/warmington-danforth-shooter-was-armed-for-war-cops-say?video_autoplay=true

To my inexperienced eye he sure moved and handled himself proficiently . And 20 rounds fired with 14 hits on the move.........amateur hour...I think not....


Cheers
Larry
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 20:54:47 by garb811 »
Proud sponsor of the Maple Leaf Legacy Project. http://www.mapleleaflegacy.ca

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 176,835
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,197
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2018, 20:08:24 »
Turns out he had a .40 caliber handgun and seven magazines of rounds. 3 full mags remaining when he died.....

https://torontosun.com/news/crime/warmington-danforth-shooter-was-armed-for-war-cops-say?video_autoplay=true

To my inexperienced eye he sure moved and handled himself proficiently . And 20 rounds fired with 14 hits on the move.........amateur hour...I think not....


Cheers
Larry

I assume you're basing that on the small snippet of video- which yes, did show him taking a pretty decent stance for a couple shots. Where are you getting that he was firing on the move vice doing what we saw him do?

Not to say that him having some shooting proficiency is incompatible with any of the other stuff. Gang members and other criminals go to the range too, and it's not difficult or particularly expensive to get taught to shoot at least with a modest amount of proficiency. The very article you quote states police believed him to have fired 40-60 rounds. 2 dead and 12 more wounded isn't at all an outlandish number for that number of rounds fired into evening crowds at restaurants.

All that to say- nothing I've yet seen suggests to me from my experience that he was the recipient of some sort of special training. I would also caution you not to assume that mentally ill means someone is not capable of physical proficiency in mechanical tasks. A person can be in the grips of psychosis, depression, or whatever and still extremely capable of doing things they have previously learned to do.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 21:01:54 by garb811 »
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Haggis

  • "There ain't no hat badge on a helmet!"
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 54,790
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,532
  • "Oh, what a glorious sight, Warm-reekin, rich!"
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #58 on: July 26, 2018, 09:13:04 »
All that to say- nothing I've yet seen suggests to me from my experience that he was the recipient of some sort of special training. I would also caution you not to assume that mentally ill means someone is not capable of physical proficiency in mechanical tasks. A person can be in the grips of psychosis, depression, or whatever and still extremely capable of doing things they have previously learned to do.

There's many other ways one can acquire "firearms" proficiency.  AirSoft, for example.  And not knowing how long he had this gun (or any others) we can assume by his observed (by police) skills that he developed proficiency before hand, likely through dry pistol handling prior to going live.  This clearly shows a high degree of premeditation.

Marksmanship skills can be developed in the virtual worlds as well.  Some studies out of the US show that gamers involved in gunfights are more likely to take head shots due to the higher point value of a head shot in some video games. Also, many game platforms illustrate a perfect sight picture every time you "aim" your virtual weapon.
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 269,426
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,349
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2018, 09:41:31 »
Quote from: Haggis


Marksmanship skills can be developed in the virtual worlds as well.  Some studies out of the US show that gamers involved in gunfights are more likely to take head shots due to the higher point value of a head shot in some video games. Also, many game platforms illustrate a perfect sight picture every time you "aim" your virtual weapon.

I was actually going to post about the same exact studies. They found some gamers-turn-shooters, despite no firearms training, had better accuracy than some responding police I believe?

I think this is a wake up call that our border agents need way more resources, money and manpower.

I'm not sure what the police might be able to do to help, maybe more resources to monitor high risk people?



There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Haggis

  • "There ain't no hat badge on a helmet!"
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 54,790
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,532
  • "Oh, what a glorious sight, Warm-reekin, rich!"
Re: 8 Shot in Toronto
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2018, 09:49:39 »
I think this is a wake up call that our border agents need way more resources, money and manpower.

CBSA is hiring and training new officers as fast as they can. But there are staff and infrastructure limitations to their schoolhouse capacity.  CBSA and every other LEA in Canada (and the CAF) are all competing for the same recruit demographic. At least now, with the signing of a new collective agreement, front-line Border Services Officers (not "agents") are being paid competitively to other LEA which may aid in retention.
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.