Author Topic: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo  (Read 5046 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 125,940
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,867
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« on: July 21, 2018, 21:19:59 »
for the want of a pin.....


A cab driver was not injured after an artillery gun struck his vehicle in Nanaimo. Witnesses report that the gun came loose from a Canadian military vehicle leaving Maffeo Sutton Park around 2 p.m. Saturday and rolled down a hill and hit an AC Taxi cab on the corner of Comox Road and Terminal Avenue.

https://www.cheknews.ca/artillery-gun-comes-loose-and-hits-taxi-in-nanaimo-472113/

Offline medicineman

  • Well stuck into my new job and thoroughly enjoying it.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 143,050
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,094
  • In Arduis Fidelis
    • Fed By The Firehose
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2018, 21:34:43 »
A dude in Victoria was knocked off the Pat Bay Highway by a 105 in April 88 when we were going to the ferry to go to Ft Lewis...he was tailgating, vehicle in front of the gun tractor slammed on the brakes, gun tractor locked up and the gun flipped.  He blamed the driver he was tailgating in the Times-CommunistColumnist...funny look on his face with the CO, a Vic PD copper reminded him of the tailgating laws and who was really at fault  ;D

MM

spelling oopie
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline Petard

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 28,040
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,146
  • Once a gunner, always a gunner
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 22:16:39 »
for the want of a pin.....


..or safety chains hooked up (that are proper weight class chains and D rings)

Offline FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 161,080
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,838
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • WordPress Page
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2018, 22:38:13 »
..or safety chains hooked up (that are proper weight class chains and D rings)

When you look closely at the second picture showing the gun from the back, you can see some form of safety chain connected to the spades and what looks like the taillight cable hanging down. Makes me wonder even more what happened here.

 :cheers:
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" book series at:
https://wolfriedel.wordpress.com

Offline PPCLI Guy

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 161,860
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,283
  • It's all good
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 22:40:15 »
Makes me wonder even more what happened here.

 :cheers:

Section 666 of the NDA:  "In that he was stupid..."
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Petard

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 28,040
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,146
  • Once a gunner, always a gunner
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 22:46:51 »
Safety chains only work if you connect them to truck too; from some photos on other news sites it doesn't look like they were

Doesn't help either there are a lot of gun Dets using chains and D rings that are too light for that weight of gun; might've been a factor in this case too

At any rate, someone's got some serious 'splainin' to do

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 216,695
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,538
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2018, 23:27:22 »
Typical 105mm ... always playing hard to get  ::)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 168,665
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,138
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2018, 07:28:21 »
I hate it when that happens.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline NFLD Sapper

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 275,391
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,987
  • CFSME STAFF
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2018, 08:41:55 »
And most D-Rings or shackles people put on the MSVS are in the wrong spot for towing...
CHIMO!
First in, Last out
Sappers Lead the Way

Just tell your wife she owes your life to some Muddy Old Engineer,
Some dusty, crusty, croaking, joking Muddy Old Engineer

Offline whiskey601

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 26,220
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,672
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2018, 10:03:34 »
What does the sign on the gun tractor say? Recruiting for Army Reserve? 

Offline dapaterson

    Mostly Harmless.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 427,215
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 16,023
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2018, 10:10:35 »
Either that or an ad for a body shop...
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 161,080
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,838
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • WordPress Page
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2018, 10:26:41 »
What does the sign on the gun tractor say? Recruiting for Army Reserve?

Bit hard to read but it looks like "Official, S something?, G something?, presented? by 5 (BC) Field Regiment Royal Canadian Artillery Army Reserve"

 :dunno:

...

I wouldn't call it "cheap". That's going to cost a few bucks.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 19:36:31 by BeyondTheNow »
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" book series at:
https://wolfriedel.wordpress.com

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 125,940
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,867
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 10:49:53 »
As long as the gun suffers no real damage, the taxi will be easily repaired or replaced.

Offline Fishbone Jones

    MSC -3325.

  • "Some people will only like you if you fit inside their box. Don't be afraid to shove that box up their ass."
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 268,277
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,266
    • Army.ca
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 11:52:06 »
Expect to see a news article 'DND Spending Out of Control' as a result!  :rofl:
Diversity includes adverse opinions, or it is not diversity.
Inclusive includes adverse opinions, or is not inclusive.

Offline Petard

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 28,040
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,146
  • Once a gunner, always a gunner
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2018, 12:32:54 »
There's a bit of a debate going on social media as to who would be responsible for this run away. Some are saying the driver, IAW the highway traffic act, others say the Detachment Commander (No 1), IAW the drill book

FJAG, jump in here if you can

Offline YZT580

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 21,610
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 643
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2018, 13:21:20 »
Doesn't seem to say anything about attaching safety chains.  Am I reading it wrong?

Offline Simian Turner

    is a veteran who enjoys oddities!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 48,655
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,626
  • Do the right thing; do the thing right!
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2018, 15:00:19 »
IMHO "satisfies himself that the equipment is ready to travel" - pretty much covers it!  #1 circles the gun and vehicle before mounting.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 15:02:50 by Simian Turner »
The grand essentials of happiness: something to do, something to love, something to hope for.  Allan K. Chalmers

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 125,940
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,867
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2018, 16:51:49 »
There's a bit of a debate going on social media as to who would be responsible for this run away. Some are saying the driver, IAW the highway traffic act, others say the Detachment Commander (No 1), IAW the drill book

FJAG, jump in here if you can

As this was a recruitment drive, there may be no Detachment Commander in the sense it is used in gun drill. Likely the Officer and/or NCO in charge for that day will be in trouble for not properly supervising the hookup (generally 4 people to lift trails). Plus the driver. This is assuming something went wrong and not something broke. If there was the remains of a cotter pin in the pintle hook and it had been in the closed position, then unlikely anyone's fault. In which case a fleet wide order may come down to repair/replace suspect components.

Offline FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 161,080
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,838
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • WordPress Page
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 21:24:35 »
As this was a recruitment drive, there may be no Detachment Commander in the sense it is used in gun drill. Likely the Officer and/or NCO in charge for that day will be in trouble for not properly supervising the hookup (generally 4 people to lift trails). Plus the driver. This is assuming something went wrong and not something broke. If there was the remains of a cotter pin in the pintle hook and it had been in the closed position, then unlikely anyone's fault. In which case a fleet wide order may come down to repair/replace suspect components.

That was my thought. The gun drill is written for when a detachment is doing training or in operations etc and, yes, as a Number 1 I always quickly walked around the gun and always checked the pintle, the pin, the latch on the panoramic scope box and the hand breaks [which are the responsibilities of the Nos 2 and 3] to make sure the gun was ready to travel (safety chains are not part of ordinary gun movements - just long administrative road moves and the like) Incidentally when working as a detachment, the driver does not leave the cab of the vehicle while going either into or coming out of action. He stays in the cab ready to move the vehicle as directed by the No 1 and in fact in coming out of action he backs the vehicle into the gun which is when the Nos 6 and 7 [one on each side of the trails nearest the pintle] cooperate to lock the gun into the pintle and pin it [at the split second that the truck stops] and then mount.

It may have been here that there was no real detachment involved which should mean that whoever was lifting the trails into the pintle should have locked and pinned it and whoever was in charge of the group involved in hooking up the gun should have checked that it was properly locked in and brakes released.

I don't suspect a mechanical problem with the pintle or pin. We've used those for a half a century now and they are very simple and robust parts and take a lot more punishment in the field then they would ever get on a paved road. I still wonder about those chains though. I'd love to see a close up photo of both the pintle and the spades/chains.

 :cheers:
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" book series at:
https://wolfriedel.wordpress.com

Offline Old Sweat

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 212,270
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,651
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2018, 21:39:33 »
Maybe I am showing my age, but I always thought the pintle was used as the point of contact to anchor the top carriage to the borrow carriage, and then was the pivot point for traversing. Perhaps more relevant, the handspike appears to be missing from its place on the left trail, which suggests this was a non-operational or administrative move, taking the gun from point A to point B by a non-qualified group.


Offline FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 161,080
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,838
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • WordPress Page
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2018, 21:53:45 »
Maybe I am showing my age, but I always thought the pintle was used as the point of contact to anchor the top carriage to the borrow carriage, and then was the pivot point for traversing. Perhaps more relevant, the handspike appears to be missing from its place on the left trail, which suggests this was a non-operational or administrative move, taking the gun from point A to point B by a non-qualified group.

This thing:


Is called a "pintle hook" or "pintle" for short. Pintles like this are on the backs of all our trucks.

Here's the link to the page:

https://www.hitchweb.com/product/88/48205/Pintle-Hook-10000-lbs

What you are thinking of is another type of pintle which is one type of a weapon mount.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_mount

You being an IG would of course be an expert on all things gun. Pintle however is a generic term that goes beyond that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintle

 ;D

 :cheers:

Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" book series at:
https://wolfriedel.wordpress.com

Offline Old Sweat

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 212,270
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,651
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2018, 06:13:18 »
This thing:


Is called a "pintle hook" or "pintle" for short. Pintles like this are on the backs of all our trucks.

Here's the link to the page:

https://www.hitchweb.com/product/88/48205/Pintle-Hook-10000-lbs

What you are thinking of is another type of pintle which is one type of a weapon mount.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_mount

You being an IG would of course be an expert on all things gun. Pintle however is a generic term that goes beyond that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintle

 ;D

 :cheers:

First time I have encountered pintle used in that context. We used to call them "tow hooks" in the context that the gun is hooked in.

The issue remains that we don't know what happened, but it shouldn't have. So we go into wait and see mode.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 125,940
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,867
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2018, 10:32:04 »
I think Pintle hooks came into use as some can rotate on basically a pintle. I suspect that sloppy language crept in over the years. As for the missing handspike, likely in the cab to prevent it being lifted by some souvenir hunter.

Offline Ashkan08

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,025
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 54
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2018, 11:52:15 »
Speaking of artillery, do you guys know why they changed the name from artillery soldier to gunner?

Offline FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 161,080
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,838
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • WordPress Page
Re: Artillery gun comes loose and hits taxi in Nanaimo
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2018, 12:54:01 »
Speaking of artillery, do you guys know why they changed the name from artillery soldier to gunner?

They didn't.

The term gunner came into use a very long time ago, shortly after "guns" were invented and came into service with armies across the world.

Within the British military, the term "gunner" was not only a descriptive term for all artillerymen but also a rank equivalent to private.

Within the Canadian artillery the trade to which gunners belonged was called "artilleryman" well before females were permitted to serve in the combat arms. Once females were permitted to serve the term "artillery soldier" came into use in our advertising campaigns. Within the trade, we have always and continuously referred to ourselves as "gunners". IMHO the term "artillery soldier" (like "armoured soldier" and "infantry soldier") always sounded stilted and contrived. The change in our advertising to the term "gunner" is in my view a good choice because 1) it gets back to the use of a traditional term rather than a made-up one and 2) is nonetheless gender neutral.

While I don't have details as to how the change came about, I would suspect that there has been an ongoing campaign by the Colonel Commandant and the Director of Artillery and various other senior serving and honourary artillery officers to influence the system to adopt the change.

 :cheers:
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" book series at:
https://wolfriedel.wordpress.com