Author Topic: New C7 PAM?  (Read 4075 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 240,540
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,839
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
New C7 PAM?
« on: July 02, 2018, 19:23:46 »
Rumours have reached my ears that there is a new C7 PAM either in draft or published form floating around that has modernized various aspects of weapons handling to harmonize with what is getting taught for the Quick Aim Shooting portion of the CFOSP. This is very relevant to something I'm working on now. Anyone in a position to confirm this and let me know where I could acquire a copy either directly, or on the DWAN? Thanks.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline dangerboy

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 332,479
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,958
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2018, 19:57:50 »
Have you checked the Army Electronic Library? They will have the most up to date authorized version of the PAM.
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
- Lt Gen Lewis B. Puller, USMC

Online PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 923,845
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,213
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 20:16:16 »
I feel like a change that big would garner a CANARMYGEN. Would be interesting to see the updates to a more modern way of shooting.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 302,331
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,115
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2018, 21:00:50 »
It should be released by now. Work space and press-checks  ;D
There are no wolves on Fenris

Online PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 923,845
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,213
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2018, 21:04:19 »
Work space and press-checks  ;D

Would not trust 90% of the CAF to safely use the work space...

Offline dangerboy

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 332,479
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,958
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 08:53:49 »
Well I just looked and the C7 Pam is on the Army Electronic Library but it is listed as a CTAT document and is restricted from viewing. You have to email a person to get access to it (along with USS provided copy of Security clearance status).  This kills me, if you have the security clearance to get a DWAN account you should have the clearance to get the C7 Pam, there can't be anything that secret in the pam.
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
- Lt Gen Lewis B. Puller, USMC

Offline LunchMeat

  • Banned
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 17,920
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 752
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 09:01:40 »
Well I just looked and the C7 Pam is on the Army Electronic Library but it is listed as a CTAT document and is restricted from viewing. You have to email a person to get access to it (along with USS provided copy of Security clearance status).  This kills me, if you have the security clearance to get a DWAN account you should have the clearance to get the C7 Pam, there can't be anything that secret in the pam.

CTAT =/= Secret.

Because the PAM goes into operation of the C7, its capabilities, assembly and disassembly, and then into our tactics, it is considered a Controlled Item. Anything relating to technical data is classified as Controlled Goods.

Nothing to do with Security Clearances, they just want to make sure the information isn't just being given out willy-nilly.

DWAN is not a secure service, hence why anything important is encrypted and done over CSNI.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline dangerboy

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 332,479
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,958
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 10:59:42 »
Makes sense in theory, but I look at the library and other weapons systems (C9, M72, 84) and not controlled and the tactics pams (Combat Team in operations, LAV Company Tactics,  Land Operations for example) are not controlled. Compared to the other pams in the library there seems to be no logic on which ones they restrict.
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
- Lt Gen Lewis B. Puller, USMC

Offline MJP

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 167,805
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,500
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 12:19:02 »
Well I just looked and the C7 Pam is on the Army Electronic Library but it is listed as a CTAT document and is restricted from viewing. You have to email a person to get access to it (along with USS provided copy of Security clearance status).  This kills me, if you have the security clearance to get a DWAN account you should have the clearance to get the C7 Pam, there can't be anything that secret in the pam.

They did that to 381(and a number of other pams years back) a number of years back as well and it was stupid then as it is stupid now. 
Hope is not a valid COA

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 240,540
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,839
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 12:32:01 »
Ok, thanks- I’ll just go through the proper hoops then. Is it official and published now then though?
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline dangerboy

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 332,479
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,958
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 12:37:16 »
Ok, thanks- I’ll just go through the proper hoops then. Is it official and published now then though?

It looks like it, I am in the process of finding out who our USS is and then then applying to get access.
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
- Lt Gen Lewis B. Puller, USMC

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 145,600
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,650
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 18:49:31 »
Makes sense in theory, but I look at the library and other weapons systems (C9, M72, 84) and not controlled and the tactics pams (Combat Team in operations, LAV Company Tactics,  Land Operations for example) are not controlled. Compared to the other pams in the library there seems to be no logic on which ones they restrict.

As a young bombardier, i got in trouble for sharing the range and specs of the 105mm Howitzer with a passerby at an event, I showed up to the RSM's office with a library book going into great detail on the gun including all the spec mentioned plus much more. That's the problem with operating equipment far older than your troops pretty much all the data is public domain.

Offline MilEME09

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 38,515
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,668
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2018, 12:05:29 »
Last I heard in March the new C7 PAM was an approved draft, so probably a few more months till it is rolled out
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline RomeoJuliet

  • Donor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 11,845
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 516
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2018, 11:15:56 »
Last I heard in March the new C7 PAM was an approved draft, so probably a few more months till it is rolled out
Video now out on ACIMS showing new C7 drills.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 240,540
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,839
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2018, 12:14:19 »
Yup, I got the new PAM and have plans to roll it out to my company in the fall. Pretty straightforward, it’s the same stuff they teach us on UOI or that any modern carbine instruction is teaching.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Bzzliteyr

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 55,340
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,217
Re: New C7 PAM?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2018, 12:56:26 »
Video now out on ACIMS showing new C7 drills.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can't ever find anything on ACIMS.
Adsum

UNPROFOR, CPSM, Canadian Forces Commander Land Force Command Commendation (Bosnia 1993), Canadian Decoration, General Campaign Star - ISAF

Offline dangerboy

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 332,479
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,958
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
- Lt Gen Lewis B. Puller, USMC