Author Topic: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"  (Read 2437 times)

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Offline mariomike

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"4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« on: May 25, 2018, 14:44:52 »
Global News

May 25, 2018

QUOTE

4 Canadian military cadets accused of desecrating
https://globalnews.ca/news/4231254/canada-military-cadets-desecrating-quran/

END QUOTE
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 15:02:01 by mariomike »

Offline OceanBonfire

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 15:38:34 »
When insulting a religion which has murdered people over cartoons it's important to video tape this kinda stuff I guess?
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2018, 16:06:34 »
When insulting a religion which has murdered people over cartoons it's important to video tape this kinda stuff I guess?

A few crazy people using religion as an excuse murder people sometimes. How some of us decide to respond seems to be equally crazy, sadly.
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Offline AbdullahD

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2018, 17:36:20 »
Christ how pathetic we are, sure yeah punish the kids. But how is this news?

So what a couple kids disrespected a book.. it's not like they went a beat a Muslim because of his Islam. Yeah things need to get nipped in the bud, but doesn't mean this is newsworthy.

The need to find news is annoying just created copy cat criminals looking for their 5 minutes of fame and let's face it they are getting it.

Respond to the issues, address them, but ignore them otherwise.

Abdullah

Ps and yeah I'm "sad" it happened.. but not surprised or beat up over it. When so called muslims do xyz and ABC, I expect blowback.. but adding fuel to the flames is far more upsetting to me.

Online CBH99

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2018, 17:48:54 »
I find this whole argument, or topic rather, of "white cadets desecrating a Muslim holy book" to be somewhat mute.  The key words in this topic could easily be replaced by other people, from other ethnic groups, doing similarly sh**ty things -- I agree, not sure it's really newsworthy other than they are in the military & as such should be held to a far higher standard.

Whether it's Catholics & Protestants bombing each other's schools and buses, "Christian" militant groups carrying out mass rape/genocide in various parts of Africa, or Muslim military groups doing the same -- or Buddhist dominated military groups carrying out mass murders/rape/genocide against the Rohingya population of their own country....


I find it simple.  If you deliberately hurt, injure, rape, murder, torture, etc etc anybody - especially if it is based on a simple difference in ethnic or religious background - your a straight up POS.  Period.  Key words like "Muslim" or "Christian" or whatever else don't really matter in the slightest.   :2c:
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Offline AbdullahD

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 18:33:34 »
I find this whole argument, or topic rather, of "white cadets desecrating a Muslim holy book" to be somewhat mute.  The key words in this topic could easily be replaced by other people, from other ethnic groups, doing similarly sh**ty things -- I agree, not sure it's really newsworthy other than they are in the military & as such should be held to a far higher standard.

Whether it's Catholics & Protestants bombing each other's schools and buses, "Christian" militant groups carrying out mass rape/genocide in various parts of Africa, or Muslim military groups doing the same -- or Buddhist dominated military groups carrying out mass murders/rape/genocide against the Rohingya population of their own country....


I find it simple.  If you deliberately hurt, injure, rape, murder, torture, etc etc anybody - especially if it is based on a simple difference in ethnic or religious background - your a straight up POS.  Period.  Key words like "Muslim" or "Christian" or whatever else don't really matter in the slightest.   :2c:

Amen to that

Offline Journeyman

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 18:41:46 »
I find this whole argument, or topic rather, of "white cadets desecrating a Muslim holy book" to be somewhat mute moot.  The key words in this topic could easily be replaced by other people, from other ethnic groups, doing similarly sh**ty things -- I agree, not sure it's really newsworthy other than they are in the military & as such should be held to a far higher standard.

So, you do agree that it is newsworthy?  They are, after all, "military & as such should be held to a far higher standard."  Personally, I agree with that but would like to see all Canadians held to a similar high standard;  we are a better people than this (notwithstanding what's posted in some threads and newsfeeds).

I'm glad that the CAF actually stepped up and didn't try to bury the issue (I see that some of the Cadets are fighting the sentencing;  nice touch on 'seek out and accept responsibility' -- maybe some schools don't cover that).  Possible bonus points for consulting people of that faith, although I'm not sure if that was necessary vs. PR;  I'm not remotely religious, but even I know that the act was absolutely f*cking stupid.

The bottom line for me in this particular instance, is that they are potential future leaders in a multicultural military within a multicultural society -- to repeat a quote seen here somewhere: "Maybe I can't change your mindset, but I can change your employment."


Offline mariomike

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2018, 18:53:32 »
-- to repeat a quote seen here somewhere: "Maybe I can't change your mindset, but I can change your employment."

46 years ago,

"You come from a society with many prejudices. We won't try to change your beliefs. But, if you treat anyone with disrespect, we will change your employment."

They did too.

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2018, 18:55:17 »
Other public service-type jobs, such as policing, will tell applicants right out of high-school, or of similar age, to go out and gain some life experience before applying. (And hopefully common sense) While I understand the need that the military has to ‘mould young minds’ to their ideals and way(s) of life, why on earth don’t we encourage CAF applicants to do the same? People who think up stunts such as this and other similarly thoughtless/brainless incidents could hopefully be avoided altogether.

Most of us have at some point been sloshed out of our minds (myself included, although that was quite a long time ago) and at no point thought of doing something so stupid and despicable. At least had these characters been discouraged from applying, they would’ve probably done something equally repugnant, but civy-side, thus possibly ruining their chances of applying anyway and CAF wouldn’t have to even deal with this type of damage control.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 15:12:07 by BeyondTheNow »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 19:09:32 »
A few crazy people using religion as an excuse murder people sometimes. How some of us decide to respond seems to be equally crazy, sadly.

I think 'few' may not be indicative enough of how often religion is used as an excuse (or catalyst?) but I get what you're saying. All things considered it's painting a pretty big target on one's self is what I'm trying to say.

1st year cadets- I'd tell them they're idiots, they're also gross and they can find another place to work and that's that.

I'm sure it won't be long before we have to sit in briefs by our respective COs to be explained why rubbing one off on holy books is unacceptable. SOP for those speeches seems to be on a Friday before block leave.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 19:14:48 »
Other public service-type jobs, such as policing, will tell applicants right out of high-school, or of similar age, to go out and gain some life experience before applying. (And hopefully common sense) While I understand the need that the military has to ‘mould young minds’ to their ideals and way(s) of life, why on earth don’t we encourage CAF applicants to do the same?

Life experience vs the old school,

QUOTE

Prior to the early 1980s, the RCMP recruited new members aged from 19 to about 25. The practice was relatively customary of those days, and based on three precise beliefs from the RCMP. First, policing could not be the second career of an individual. Second, young men were more moldable than older individuals to the police subculture. Third, criminal activity was linked to adulthood; by hiring young adults, the RCMP secured more chances that those individuals would have a crime free background.":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCMP_recruitment#Age

END QUOTE



Offline Brihard

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 19:29:53 »
So a few thoughts...

First off, the action itself is not a criminal one so long as the book was not stolen. It is not against civilian law to be gross and crass.

That aside- these are serving military members who are held to a much higher standard of behaviour than their civilian counterparts. These young... Individuals are people to whom we intended to entrust powers of command. Canada expects these individuals to defend Canadian values and principles, and to credibly enforce the professionalism and discipline of those under them.

It seems that in this case a few disgusting bigots have helpfully self-identified. To defile something of religious or cultural significance in a deliberate manner like that is an act that betrays that individual's sheer contempt for a culture, religion, etc. It would be the same were it a Talmud, or a New Testament, or any other religious work. Not only did they find it acceptable and amusing to do, but at least one person thought it would be amusing to others and showed it around.

Needless to say, if the facts are as reported, these are not the sort of gentlemen I wish to serve under or to entrust my troops to. As an NCO, as a professional, and as a Canadian I find the kind of behaviour alleged reprehensible. Whatever our hiring woes, we do not need people so desperately as to tolerate the kinds of values these individuals have exhibited. As a bonus we seem to have been put in a position to weed out very early a couple of people with exceptionally bad judgment.

On another tack- this action literally puts our troops and our facilities at risk. We cannot discount the possibility that these actions may encourage a few radicalized whackjobs to seek retribution against the military as an institution. I'm hoping that we don't see any blowback out of this, and I'm sur ethe military will be acting decisively with this in mind.

I commend the fellow officer cadets who had the courage of convictions to step up and bring to the attention of the chain of command something this egregious. That could not have been an easy choice, and it was the right one.
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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2018, 19:32:45 »
First off, the action itself is not a criminal one so long as the book was not stolen. It is not against civilian law to be gross and crass.

Whipping it out and jerking off at a party full of people isn't, at the very minimum, an indecent act under CCC 172 (1)?

Offline Brihard

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2018, 19:48:37 »
Whipping it out and jerking off at a party full of people isn't, at the very minimum, an indecent act under CCC 172 (1)?

You're thinking CC 173(1). But it wasn't in public, and not done with the intent to offend any person by the actual act of exposing their genitals. So while it was unquestionably indecent, the act itself does not seem to quite fit the criminal offense under that section.

In any case it looks like the careers of three are coming to an abrupt end with a 2(a) or (b) release item, and at least one more will be on recorded warning. I think that's appropriate.
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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2018, 19:52:41 »
In any case it looks like the careers of three are coming to an abrupt end with a 2(a) or (b) release item, and at least one more will be on recorded warning. I think that's appropriate.

Completely concur here, at the very least this act is contrary to the CAF Code of Ethics and Values.

Being lost in all this, is that the video was reported to the chain of command by peers. I'm pleased they didn't succumb to pressure to hide the incident or reduce its gravity. The system worked in this case.

Offline NavalMoose

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2018, 22:57:20 »
The origins of Wardroom Olympics ;D

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: "4 Canadian military cadets accused"
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2018, 23:06:45 »
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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