Author Topic: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A  (Read 646203 times)

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Offline bsycunja

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1250 on: July 07, 2017, 18:01:44 »
I appreciate your trying to help but as I have already mentioned, I have looked those over multiple times and there is no information on

1. Whether I would be receiving full salary for my rank while in school for NCM-SEP, and

2. If I am eligible for PLD


Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1251 on: July 07, 2017, 18:14:20 »
Ref the part about *full salary*...once you transfer into the Reg Force, yes you should be getting Reg Force pay (except for any period of LWOP, for example) on your transfer date.

About PLD...here is the reference for it.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-205-officer-ncm-allowance-rates.page#sec-45

A question that applies, though, is will you be posted to the area or on a restricted posting i.e. not entitled to a move at public expense and your principle residence, D HG & E remain at your *enrolment* location.

Normally, the first full posting will come after you complete all your initial occupation training...assuming you do your DA program and then have some bridge/follow on training at a CF Training Establishment, you would likely not be posted until after that is all complete and then afforded a move at public expense.

Your CT offer and subsequent messages should have some or all of these details, and I would recommend asking these questions to your broker.
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Online mariomike

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1252 on: July 07, 2017, 18:48:01 »
I have looked those over multiple times and there is no information on

1. Whether I would be receiving full salary for my rank while in school for NCM-SEP

Forces.ca

When you enrol through the paid college program, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) will pay for your tuition, books and academic equipment. You will also receive a salary and benefits while you attend school. Your salary includes medical and dental care, as well as vacation time with full pay. In exchange, you must complete two months of service in the CAF for each month of paid tuition. That usually works out to three to four years.
If you qualify for paid college, you will begin your studies at a Canadian college through the Non-Commissioned Member Subsidized Training and Education Plan. During the summer months, you will attend basic training and on-the-job training.
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/education-benefits/paid-education/college.html


The Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP) or the Non-Commissioned Member Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP) are programs that pay for college or university education.
The CAF pays for classes, books and equipment. While they are in school, CAF members are paid a salary and have health benefits.
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/life/info-families.html

2. If I am eligible for PLD

NCM-SEP
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php?topic=104683.25
I have read the pay scales and added PLD and deducted taxes but I don't want to budget off of my own calculation.

Factor it into your budget, but be aware that PLD is subject to change (or cancellation!) at the government's pleasure.  Don't make any financial commitments based on it always being there.  Live within your means based on salary alone.

PLD comes and goes. You might get amount X this year, Y the next.

That and, the future existence of PLD is not looking good right now.

See also,

Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,34108.1150.html
47 pages.

As always,  your Broker is your most trusted source of information.


« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 19:15:11 by mariomike »
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Offline bsycunja

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1253 on: July 07, 2017, 22:14:04 »
Wow, thank you so much for all information, Eye In The Sky and mariomike! I didn't know brokers also deals with anything after the offer. I'll ask him any further question. Thank you again for steering me into the right direction :)

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1254 on: July 07, 2017, 22:16:04 »
Wow, thank you so much for all information, Eye In The Sky and mariomike! I didn't know brokers also deals with anything after the offer. I'll ask him any further question. Thank you again for steering me into the right direction :)

You are welcome. Good luck.  :)
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1255 on: July 07, 2017, 23:52:27 »
Wow, thank you so much for all information, Eye In The Sky and mariomike! I didn't know brokers also deals with anything after the offer. I'll ask him any further question. Thank you again for steering me into the right direction :)

The goal, of course, would be to ask the questions BEFORE your eff date of transfer;  officially, after your transfer date you will be part of the Regular Force BTL (Basic training list), which is where you will *belong* until MOC qualified and posted.  It would be better to ask before...asking after, I wouldn't be surprised if you were told to ask your BTL Supervisor or Orderly Room.
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Offline Shrek1985

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Questions about my CT
« Reply #1256 on: July 14, 2017, 19:19:52 »
I've had my CT In for four years now (INT O, then added INT OP two years ago) Res to Reg.

I have never had a phonecall.

I have never had a real interview.

The only thing I get without hounding are emails when the trade closes.

My "Case Manager" I am informed is my Chief Clerk...

My friendly neighbourhood PSO hasn't been any help, despite that HE IS AN INT O. He has to be the least connected person in the CF.

I send emails, I make phone calls, I ask my CC and I get a lot of crickets and a lot of "I Don't Know." If I ever get a response to an email, it's to ask for yet another copy of my grades and then nothing. I have people tell me they'll look into it; officers, senior NCOs, random Corporals who "Know a guy". I had a friggin recruiter who was getting out say he'd look into it for me after I helped him turn his kit in. No one knows anything useful. I've passed out my SN and name so many times, it's probably become a slang term in the CT world.

Online, it says the trade is open. The only advice I've had from my CC is to VR and re-enlist off the street. However my reaserch indicates that doing this would put me in limbo for the next year before I can re-enlist.

Yes, I read the Int thread. But I feel like this is more a CT process question than an INT question, because...FOUR YEARS?! I think I'm getting screwed here.

First of all; a know a lot of people who have CT and not a one of them had a CC as a case manager/file manager/case officer whatever the title is. They all got the name of some poor unfortunate in TO Or Ottawa and called them often until lo and behold they got an offer. My Chief Clerk is way too busy to help me, certainly not like if I had the name of someone actually in the CT process. And their three predecessors were the same. Probably because they are Chief Clerks and have a whole unit to worry about, not just me. Would seem to make them a poor choice for his job, eh?

Yeah, yeah; "Competitive" sure, sure I know. Well there has never been a competition. I get asked about my CFAT and if I've seen it. Don't these people know that they won't let you see your CFAT? Well the CFRC says mine is near the top, anything but pilot. I'm not a big self-promoter, but I can about guarantee if would ever top a course, it would be the INT course.

yeah, yeah; very busy, undermanned. I can tell because every time I send an email or make a phonecall, someone is on leave and will get back to me.

Here's how I think it should be;

I think my name should be on a list and it should be shuffling it's way along. That makes sense to me. After four years it should be near the front. That's what I said at the beginning; just put me on the list, I know this process takes a while. And here I am.

They should be calling me, emailing me by now to line me up for the next course. Nothing. Something is wrong here.

The trades have opened and closed about four times now since I started. I never hear when it's open, but I get emails sometimes when it's closed; so it must have once been open. It says it's open online as of last week.

But I'm worried I've been lied to since day one and that my name is nowhere. I'm beginning to feel like I've wasted four years of my life because someone lied to me right off the bat. The story of my life is finally getting to the end of any ordeal and learning that back at the beginning, some idiot gave me bad information or just lied to me and that put me on the wrong track. Ironic for someone who is trying to go INT, no? But I ask and ask and I never hear anything back from anyone that contradicts what they tell me.

I have my clearance and I put myself through the six worst years of my life to get the education to be allowed to do this job.

Somebody, please help me.


Offline runormal

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1257 on: July 14, 2017, 20:59:44 »
AFAIK you can't pick an officer trade and a NCM trade at the same time. You can pick 3 NCM trades or 3 Officers trades, but I'm unaware of being able to mix officer/trades. I'll gladly be corrected as I haven't looked into CT's for over a year now  8). I had a CT in for MARS/LOG and I also got the same advice from both CFRC and my broker "If you want it bad it enough, VR and reapply as there are more spots." I was told that the alternative was to wait 5 years for the trades to open up to APPLY.

<rant>
If you look on the DWAN you can find the SIP, which will show the entire intake plan. You will be blown away how many spots are allocated to civilian versus CT (U). Everyone always talks about how so many reservists quit after University (which I'm not denying), but then we don't bother to recruit the ones that actually want to make a career out of it. So eventually they get a full time job and end up saying "no thanks". I have several friends who would of joined the regs (myself included), but there weren't any spots allocated for CT's... These people now have great careers with the RCMP, Corrections or doing a similar job in the civilian world. Oh well...

I understand that isn't as simple as giving CPL bloggins a job, because he was a reservist. However if we look at the "big-green machine" what is the difference between a CT (U) and someone being hired off the street? The CT (U) has Basic done and that is about it, they still need to take all relevant trades courses in their new occupation. Obviously if we take a reservist from any unit we then need to replace the member. However, if a member has indicated that they want full time work, why is it expected that the reservist will stay with the unit working part-time indefinitely? This is the piece of the puzzle that I've never understood.
</Rant>

My honest advice is to call any broker and ask who your broker is. Once you find out who your broker is then ask for a "no bullshit" assessment. If you don't like what you hear then release and reapply. I think it is a 6 month waiting period if you have already met your trade standard, but you might want to verify that. Alternatively, you can apply elsewhere and deny your CT once you finally receive it. I would imagine that it would be still be fairly difficult to get into INT O or INT OP off the street. You might want to look at other trades...

Good luck,


Offline Shrek1985

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1258 on: July 14, 2017, 21:27:36 »
AFAIK you can't pick an officer trade and a NCM trade at the same time. You can pick 3 NCM trades or 3 Officers trades, but I'm unaware of being able to mix officer/trades. I'll gladly be corrected as I haven't looked into CT's for over a year now  8). I had a CT in for MARS/LOG and I also got the same advice from both CFRC and my broker "If you want it bad it enough, VR and reapply as there are more spots." I was told that the alternative was to wait 5 years for the trades to open up to APPLY.

My honest advice is to call any broker and ask who your broker is. Once you find out who your broker is then ask for a "no bullshit" assessment. If you don't like what you hear then release and reapply. I think it is a 6 month waiting period if you have already met your trade standard, but you might want to verify that. Alternatively, you can apply elsewhere and deny your CT once you finally receive it. I would imagine that it would be still be fairly difficult to get into INT O or INT OP off the street. You might want to look at other trades...

Good luck,

When I first asked about VR/re-enlist I was told 100% DO NOT DO IT; INT does not take people off the street. I know now the second part was a lie.

More recently what I was told was that if I VR, there is aone-year cooling off period before you can re-enlist and you take your chances.

Broker is the term? Did that; they swore to me that my broker was my CC. Sound like BS? I think so too, but every time I've asked, this is what they tell me. Just thrills my CC too.

I've been dying for a no bullshit "Where am I on the list" so I can make an informed decision about what to do. I can't get one.

Legions of people telling me to give up though. Wow is that a popular refrain.

Offline garb811

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1259 on: July 14, 2017, 21:52:42 »
...
Broker is the term? Did that; they swore to me that my broker was my CC. Sound like BS? I think so too, but every time I've asked, this is what they tell me. Just thrills my CC too.
...
Who is this "they" you keep referring to?

Offline runormal

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1260 on: July 14, 2017, 22:52:30 »
So I just looked at my email

CONFIRMATION - RECEIPT OF COMPONENT TRANSFER (CT) APPLICATION
 
The Director Military Career Policy and Grievance (DMCPG 5-5) has received a component transfer request for Cpl XXXX
 
2.  *** Email us a copy of your official high school or college or university transcripts with your name and your service number***
 
 
3.  ***PLEASE FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO YOUR CHIEF CLERK**
*:  Unless otherwise specified, you will be the unit’s point of contact to assist the member with their component transfer.

I'm pretty that whoever is telling you "chief clerk" is confused by this. When I went to my chief clerk, they didn't know the procedure (the cc was reg-f). However I got my CC a contact and then they had a discussion, just so that they understood the process.

There are CT Brokers who are in charge of hundreds of files, when I called mine he said "you are position 5 on the list for NAV COMM, I estimate that it will take 2 years". He was right, but by the time I got an offer, I had a better job on the civilian side.

The CT broker is equivalent to your "File Manager" when you joined initially.
 

Offline SJC000

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1261 on: July 18, 2017, 19:13:02 »
Is there a stipulation stating that your pay cannot go down upon transfer to the RegF, or is that hearsay? As an OCdt in the PRes on Class B, I made approximately $2800 monthly, after taxes and deductions. As a Civvie U ROTP OCdt in the RegF, it seems I will be making $1200 monthly under the same circumstances.

I know that former NCMs are pay protected at their former rank, and I realize that I have no "former rank" to be pay protected at, but am I in any way pay protected at my Class B rate?

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1262 on: July 18, 2017, 21:16:37 »
How is it the same circumstances? You're now Regular Force, and getting a free university education. That's why your pay isn't the same.

Offline SJC000

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1263 on: July 18, 2017, 21:58:17 »
How is it the same circumstances? You're now Regular Force, and getting a free university education. That's why your pay isn't the same.

Believe me, I understand the value of a paid education. But if my pay is simply being rerouted to cover the cost, then are my studies really being subsidized in full? I don't see this as a reason why my pay should drop. Now, if there is no clause stating that my pay cannot be decreased, then the situation is what it is.

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1264 on: July 18, 2017, 22:19:28 »
You're getting paid at the same rate as any other ROTP officer. Its lower because the CAF won't get real work out of you for another 4 years. NCMs who commission do not have vested rights to pay, they are starting at IPC 0 of whatever entry plan (UTPNCM or CFR). A MCpl going UTPNCM is going to lose a couple hundred a month going to 2nd Lieutenant IPC 0, and a Sgt CFRing is going to lose the same going to Lieutenant IPC 0.

Your drop is sharper because the CAF hasn't invested anything into you yet, so there doesn't need to be a pay incentive to keep you around. You should, however, maintain any IPC levels you had. So if you were getting paid at NCdt(1), that should be your new incentive in the Regular Force. Also keep in mind that when comissioned to ASlt (your profile rank is RCN so I'm using those references), your basic pay rate is HIGHER than a DEO that will commission on completion of BMOQ.

This was all in your offer that you accepted as part of the Component Transfer, you basically only get to keep your IPC level, if that was 0, then you're SOL. CBI 204 is your reference for pay on CT/OT/etc.

Offline SJC000

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1265 on: July 19, 2017, 15:49:31 »
You're getting paid at the same rate as any other ROTP officer. Its lower because the CAF won't get real work out of you for another 4 years. NCMs who commission do not have vested rights to pay, they are starting at IPC 0 of whatever entry plan (UTPNCM or CFR). A MCpl going UTPNCM is going to lose a couple hundred a month going to 2nd Lieutenant IPC 0, and a Sgt CFRing is going to lose the same going to Lieutenant IPC 0.

Your drop is sharper because the CAF hasn't invested anything into you yet, so there doesn't need to be a pay incentive to keep you around. You should, however, maintain any IPC levels you had. So if you were getting paid at NCdt(1), that should be your new incentive in the Regular Force. Also keep in mind that when comissioned to ASlt (your profile rank is RCN so I'm using those references), your basic pay rate is HIGHER than a DEO that will commission on completion of BMOQ.

This was all in your offer that you accepted as part of the Component Transfer, you basically only get to keep your IPC level, if that was 0, then you're SOL. CBI 204 is your reference for pay on CT/OT/etc.

This answers all my questions perfectly, thank you kindly.

Offline rnkelly

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1266 on: July 19, 2017, 22:42:22 »
Is there a stipulation stating that your pay cannot go down upon transfer to the RegF, or is that hearsay? As an OCdt in the PRes on Class B, I made approximately $2800 monthly, after taxes and deductions. As a Civvie U ROTP OCdt in the RegF, it seems I will be making $1200 monthly under the same circumstances.

I know that former NCMs are pay protected at their former rank, and I realize that I have no "former rank" to be pay protected at, but am I in any way pay protected at my Class B rate?
Believe me, I understand the value of a paid education. But if my pay is simply being rerouted to cover the cost, then are my studies really being subsidized in full? I don't see this as a reason why my pay should drop. Now, if there is no clause stating that my pay cannot be decreased, then the situation is what it is.

You were getting paid to go to school full-time on class B?

You're getting paid at the same rate as any other ROTP officer. Its lower because the CAF won't get real work out of you for another 4 years. NCMs who commission do not have vested rights to pay, they are starting at IPC 0 of whatever entry plan (UTPNCM or CFR). A MCpl going UTPNCM is going to lose a couple hundred a month going to 2nd Lieutenant IPC 0, and a Sgt CFRing is going to lose the same going to Lieutenant IPC 0.

Your drop is sharper because the CAF hasn't invested anything into you yet, so there doesn't need to be a pay incentive to keep you around. You should, however, maintain any IPC levels you had. So if you were getting paid at NCdt(1), that should be your new incentive in the Regular Force. Also keep in mind that when comissioned to ASlt (your profile rank is RCN so I'm using those references), your basic pay rate is HIGHER than a DEO that will commission on completion of BMOQ.

This was all in your offer that you accepted as part of the Component Transfer, you basically only get to keep your IPC level, if that was 0, then you're SOL. CBI 204 is your reference for pay on CT/OT/etc.

I always thought there was some sort of pay protection so this is surprising to me.  I thought this was the main reason (along with pension considerations) to go CT/OT (internal competition) versus releasing and re-applying (external competition).  Lots of CT/OTs go the ROTP route and I don't think they have to go to a 1700$/month wage.  The utpncm and cfr payscales seem to work better for quasi pay protection than the ct method though.  Do IPCs from the PRes world translate to the same IPC in the RegF if the IPCs weren't earned on a full-time basis?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 23:13:09 by rnkelly »

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1267 on: July 19, 2017, 22:49:30 »
1.  The Res F 85% of Reg F rule does not apply to Pte, OCdt and 2Lt; those rates are greater than 85% the Reg F equivalents to act as an attraction tool.

2.  There is no guarantee of "pay protection" on CT; there are several situations where gross pay may be reduced.

3.  Individuals with prior NCM service who enter the Reg F as officers are most susceptible to such situations, but the same situation can arise for others.

4.  Remember that when on class B for a short term your deductions at source will differ from your deductions at source while on long-term full-time service; for example, the Basic Personal Deduction has less of an impact over 12 months than it would over a shorter period.


If you have concerns about the TOS you received on CT you can go back to your broker and ask questions.
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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1268 on: July 19, 2017, 23:01:32 »
They determine what rank you will be given in the RegF (Cpl is a protected rank so if you have that in PRes you won't go below, not sure about officer), and then determine IPC based off time served. Class A days are counted at 1/4 (4 Cl A = 1 RegF day) and any time spent Cl B is 1:1.

Had SJC000 been commissioned in the PRes to ASlt, he would have kept that and not been on the NCdt end of ROTP. Because s/he was not commissioned, the ROTP OCdt/NCdt pay scale is going to apply along with whatever IPC based on that formula. Also keep in mind that once s/he reaches occupational function point (OFP), and completes their degree, promotion to ASlt (in this case) and simulatenous promotion to Slt will result, jumping significantly in the pay scales. http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,87678.msg856805.html#msg856805

Also, what DAP said.

Offline SJC000

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1269 on: July 20, 2017, 00:04:12 »
You were getting paid to go to school full-time on class B?

No. I was on Class B completing BMOQ and my first trade course

Had SJC000 been commissioned in the PRes to ASlt, he would have kept that and not been on the NCdt end of ROTP. Because s/he was not commissioned, the ROTP OCdt/NCdt pay scale is going to apply along with whatever IPC based on that formula. Also keep in mind that once s/he reaches occupational function point (OFP), and completes their degree, promotion to ASlt (in this case) and simulatenous promotion to Slt will result, jumping significantly in the pay scales. http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,87678.msg856805.html#msg856805

As of fairly recently, commissioned officers in the Reserve are no longer eligible for ROTP, I was only admitted as I was a NCdt, not holding a commission. To clarify my personal situation, I was a NCdt in the Naval Reserve training to be a MARS Officer; I am now an OCdt in the RCAF, training to become a Pilot.

Also, what's this about simultaneous promotion to Lieutenant?  I must be misunderstanding this bit, as I thought (in my case) one is only granted this promotion upon Wings qualification.

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1270 on: July 20, 2017, 00:10:32 »
Its a little different for Pilots, you'll have to look up the CFAO 11-6 on DWAN, as its not on the internet anymore. If you reach OFP prior to completing your degree, you'll be promoted twice as the prereq for 2Lt is the degree, and Lt is OFP.

Offline SJC000

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1271 on: July 20, 2017, 00:12:14 »
Its a little different for Pilots, you'll have to look up the CFAO 11-6 on DWAN, as its not on the internet anymore. If you reach OFP prior to completing your degree, you'll be promoted twice as the prereq for 2Lt is the degree, and Lt is OFP.

Must be for CEOTP, who (I believe) complete all phases of flight trg prior to graduation from Seneca. Us ROTP folk typically only have one phase (PFT) completed prior to university grad.

Offline Shrek1985

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1272 on: August 02, 2017, 23:31:21 »
Who is this "they" you keep referring to?

The CT people I was in touch with. I just got a different email, asked them and I have now been in touch with my file manager for the trade.

She mentioned a random vital bit of info they will be looking at, that would have been great to know any time up until yesterday. Stuff like this is why I never just relax and let these "Systems" work.

Offline PhatSavage

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1273 on: September 12, 2017, 01:22:30 »
Broker info:

Ive had my CT in for 1 year from res. Infantry to Reg. Infantry NCM.
Been in contact with a super helpful broker, just posting an update for infantry specific CT from res. to reg.

Although a lot of battalions are bleeding for man-power, the SIPS doesn't seem to reflect it unfortunately, there is a high demand for infantry man-power from off the street as the reserve for is trying to retain members.

This year, RCR and PPCLI were offered circa 30 spots each for CT Infantry NCM. There are a few spots remaining at the moment (mid-September 2017) but my broker has notified me of the possibility of attaining a few more spots closer to the new year. Albeit, the new fiscal year starts 4 months after 2018 swings around.

I have had my CT in for reg. infantry for 1 year now, I am around number 50 in line. So, not likely going to happen this year. Ive heard a lot of talk about people releasing from the P-Res. and re-signing for reg.force after waiting a period of time, not sure how effective that is. I am comfortable with waiting, although some insist it's an option.

Can anyone clarify the above statement?  :cdnsalute:

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Re: Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
« Reply #1274 on: September 12, 2017, 09:45:31 »
Ive heard a lot of talk about people releasing from the P-Res. and re-signing for reg.force after waiting a period of time, not sure how effective that is.

Release and Re-apply or wait it out ??? 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=119363.0
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:49:18 by mariomike »
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