Author Topic: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual  (Read 35209 times)

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Online Halifax Tar

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Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« on: April 12, 2018, 11:01:46 »
So I have seen it, a few times on social media; and on here.  I keep hearing this summer we are going to see some, what seems to be, drastic changes to the personal grooming standards laid out in the dess manual.  I hear things like a free for all on beards, long hair for men, goatees, earrings for men....ect, ect.

I have heard sailors in my unit lines mumbling about it now.  Has anyone actually been briefed on this topic ?  Or this pure rumor mill stuff going on ?
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Offline MCG

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2018, 11:06:58 »
I understand it was briefed at the Army's command team course.

Offline FSTO

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 11:39:40 »
I can't help but think of this when I think of the lads having a hairy free for all!




Offline Dimsum

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2018, 11:53:38 »
I can't help but think of this when I think of the lads having a hairy free for all!



Well, no one will have trouble finding these guys if they bail out.
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2018, 12:26:23 »
I heard it from 3 different sources. One from a briefing at a leadership course and the others at a town hall. From what I understand to attract more recruits some grooming regs maybe changing. Longer hair to be allowed, goatees, earrings for males. I don't know if this is something that will happen or any other details. It really doesn't surprise me as if somebody asked me a year ago if we would be allowed wifi on the ships, I wouldn't have believed it. Wholesale change is here and more change is coming.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 12:29:29 by Chief Stoker »
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2018, 12:52:01 »
Oh man. The social media poo-storm form the retired crowd on this is going to be phenomenally epic.
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 12:57:44 »
Oh man. The social media poo-storm form the retired crowd on this is going to be phenomenally epic.

Its already started on the RCN retired pages on facebook.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Online Eagle Eye View

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 12:59:09 »
Quote
I heard it from 3 different sources. One from a briefing at a leadership course and the others at a town hall. From what I understand to attract more recruits some grooming regs maybe changing. Longer hair to be allowed, goatees, earrings for males. I don't know if this is something that will happen or any other details. It really doesn't surprise me as if somebody asked me a year ago if we would be allowed wifi on the ships, I wouldn't have believed it. Wholesale change is here and more change is coming.

That’s what I also heard from members in Ottawa when I was on my ILP last fall.
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Offline recceguy

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 13:37:28 »
I'm glad. At least it's being talked about and discussed as opposed to a nil return we've seen until now.

I've worked with soldiers from different countries (think Dutch, etc) that have had these grooming standards since the begining of the '70s.

In my mind, it hasn't affected their professionalism one bit. They certainly seemed a much happier bunch than Canadian troops.

Gender obliteration is a federal government intiative. Men can have long hair and earrings, women can have beards and moustaches. Identify as a rock if you wish.

The CAF works for the government, they carry out the MND's instructions, as passed from the PMO, and follow the governments lead on policy.

I might be wrong, but I don't see any amount of discussion making any difference to the current governments wishes.

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 15:36:22 »
Let it Grow! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXDf9UwHGF4

You never seem to have a lighter to wave aloft when you want one for times like this.   ;)

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 16:09:01 »
Its already started on the RCN retired pages on facebook.

I would say those are retired CAF Maritime Command retirees.

Hate to break it to people, but the old RCN (i.e. pre-unification) was pretty well like the pics of the 60's and 70's US Navy posted above. The idea of short hair is actually something that came in from the army as a result of unification - not before. Similarly, the idea of some seamen wearing hear rings is actually definitely not something unusual for seamen from the old days - in fact it was quite acceptable then, regardless of the slightly  "pirate" look that resulted.

I've said it before, the short hair do thingy is NOT a naval tradition, it's a "modern army" one. The navies do not have problems in itself with people having long hair (the old naval collar's purpose was to protect the gun shirt from the tar/grease in the seamen's hair).

jollyjacktar

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 16:31:47 »
C'mon now OGBD, we usually shower on a semi-weekly basis now.  Geeze  :D

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 17:19:26 »
There's enough fresh water for that ???


 ;D

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2018, 17:54:57 »
I would say those are retired CAF Maritime Command retirees.

Hate to break it to people, but the old RCN (i.e. pre-unification) was pretty well like the pics of the 60's and 70's US Navy posted above. The idea of short hair is actually something that came in from the army as a result of unification - not before. Similarly, the idea of some seamen wearing hear rings is actually definitely not something unusual for seamen from the old days - in fact it was quite acceptable then, regardless of the slightly  "pirate" look that resulted.

I've said it before, the short hair do thingy is NOT a naval tradition, it's a "modern army" one. The navies do not have problems in itself with people having long hair (the old naval collar's purpose was to protect the gun shirt from the tar/grease in the seamen's hair).

No lots of currently serving members on those pages don't like it either.
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jollyjacktar

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2018, 18:34:54 »
Not that l am interested in growing long hair, a goatee or wear earrings.  I don't take issue if others do.  Meh! I say.  There's little enough joy in Tinseltown as it is, if this brings up the morale of some?  Then it's ok by me.  Bout time the adults tried to get with the times some and stop being pains in the asses for a change.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2018, 19:24:59 »
The same people (or their ilk) who thought that the world would end as a result of a host of things, including: unification, women serving on ships and in the combat arms, homosexuals serving in the military at all etc, and also thought that drinking during the day, strippers in the mess at lunch, driving home drunk, hazing, and abusive leadership were all good things.

Just saying.

To be honest I don't really care myself but I would imagine its not uncommon for some to not like some of these proposed changes. As for your examples I wouldn't compare it to hazing , drunk driving or drinking.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline NavalMoose

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2018, 20:01:18 »
The same people (or their ilk) who thought that the world would end as a result of a host of things, including: unification, women serving on ships and in the combat arms, homosexuals serving in the military at all etc, and also thought that drinking during the day, strippers in the mess at lunch, driving home drunk, hazing, and abusive leadership were all good things.

Just saying.


That's quite the broad brush you're using there. Just because a person thinks that males should have short hair and no earrings doesn't mean they condone those other activities you mention.  Apples and oranges.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 21:54:27 by NavalMoose »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2018, 20:19:50 »
I've worked with soldiers from different countries (think Dutch, etc) that have had these grooming standards since the begining of the '70s.

I think it was them or maybe the Sweds...anyways, I remember one who was at the DFAC who had a haircut that reminded me of the 2 guys from ABBA.  No one stopped the press because of it.

Anyone remember when squareback haircuts were first permitted?  I'm sure that caused a few heart attacks  ;D.   Earrings, hair on men longer than 3 inches along the neckline...blah blah blah.  I care more about 'why are there no flight suits in the system' and stuff that actually negatively impacts ops and trg.  Commanders/applic authorities will have to ability to put in place rules/restrictions for 'about to be newly approved dress items' for operational/safety reasons.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 20:41:26 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline OldTanker

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2018, 20:27:31 »
Well, this old retiree doesn't see anything wrong with this. I'm not sure a goatee or earrings, on any gender, will affect operational efficiencies.  :2c:

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2018, 21:18:45 »
I'm not sure a goatee or earrings, on any gender, will affect operational efficiencies:2c:

I understand operational efficiencies are important. Opinions on personal appearance may vary among current and former members.

But, what importance - if any - is the personal appearance of CAF members to the public?

Reason I ask is, it is the public who encourage their political representatives to vote on strong pay and benefit packages. 

Studies I have read indicate that personal appearance of uniformed services - not just operational efficiency - is important to  taxpayers.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 21:24:37 by mariomike »

Offline Remius

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2018, 21:27:45 »
Hmn...this is going to make identifying Walts that much harder.... ;D
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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2018, 22:06:46 »
Well, this old retiree doesn't see anything wrong with this. I'm not sure a goatee or earrings, on any gender, will affect operational efficiencies.  :2c:

My first encounter was in Hohne. The Dutch went by our cents with their leopards. I saw a red headed viking crew commander well out of his hatch. His beard must have been a foot over his shoulder and his hair was streaming out from his beret like superman's cape.
Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Offline Furniture

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2018, 22:18:12 »
I understand operational efficiencies are important. Opinions on personal appearance may vary among current and former members.

But, what importance - if any - is the personal appearance of CAF members to the public?

Reason I ask is, it is the public who encourage their political representatives to vote on strong pay and benefit packages. 

Studies I have read indicate that personal appearance of uniformed services - not just operational efficiency - is important to  taxpayers.

This strikes me as a valid concern. We need to balance free expression against public perception. In Canada and North America the public se the military as "clean cut" so wild neck beards and long unkempt locks are a bit extreme, but a clean beard and neat ponytail/bun seems reasonable. Piercings that don't have a safety impact are also an easy sell, it's time to move out of the 50s for dress regs.

Offline MCG

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2018, 22:23:40 »
Gender obliteration is a federal government intiative. Men can have long hair and earrings, women can have beards and moustaches.
So, gender neutral dress regs and DEU skirts are an option for all.

Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Upcoming Changes to the Dress Manual
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2018, 22:27:03 »
I understand operational efficiencies are important. Opinions on personal appearance may vary among current and former members.

But, what importance - if any - is the personal appearance of CAF members to the public?

Reason I ask is, it is the public who encourage their political representatives to vote on strong pay and benefit packages. 

Studies I have read indicate that personal appearance of uniformed services - not just operational efficiency - is important to  taxpayers.

Many CAF members are visibly obese and look very un-soldierly in uniform. The CAF and the public seem to accept that.