Author Topic: All things Charlottesville (merged)  (Read 64705 times)

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #575 on: September 15, 2017, 11:17:59 »
At least "Mick O'Toole from the Bronx circa 1876" was eligible to apply. And was likely assigned to an Engine or Ladder company.

"William H. Nicholson became the first Black man on November 7, 1898 to join the FDNY. About a month later he was advanced to 4th grade fireman and made $800 a year. Nicholson was assigned to Engine Company 6 in Brooklyn. He faced discrimination, however. When he arrived for duty, orders had been received from fire headquarters that read, “When William H. Nicholson reports for duty, send him to headquarters. He is detailed to the Veterinary Department in Manhattan.” Nicholson worked for the department for 14 years as a horse groom."
http://amsterdamnews.com/news/2017/sep/12/fdny-150/

I remember reading of "black bunks" reserved in FDNY firehouses.

Ref: Firefight: The Century-Long Battle to Integrate New York’s Bravest
By Ginger Adams Otis

That's something "Mick O'Toole from the Bronx" never had to tolerate.

Im not sure what we are debating...
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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #576 on: September 15, 2017, 11:24:01 »
Im not sure what we are debating...

I was replying to this,

I'm not sure Mick O'Toole from the Bronx circa 1876 would have the same feelings.

It goes back to,

I think you need to do some reading on the Irish experience from 1169 (English/Norman invasions) onward.  These people were violently; and with extreme prejudice, oppressed on their own land by a foreign power for hundreds of years.  The victimhood of racism isn't solely owned by races and colors other than white.

You cannot discuss the Irish in America with out digging into the roots of the emigration from Erin and the Irish diaspora.  Not to mention the Irish Catholics, during the Potatoe Famine and US Civil War, were not exactly welcome on the shores of the USA unless they were to be used as fodder for the US Civil War.

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #577 on: September 15, 2017, 11:33:12 »
Where do you draw your link ?

Honest question.  I don't see how it all equates.   

Unless you trying to show that the Irish are racist too ?  To Which I would reply of course there are/was Irish racists.  Just like there are racists in all bodies of colors and creeds.
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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #578 on: September 15, 2017, 11:40:24 »
Honest question.  I don't see how it all equates.   

You don't?

I think you need to do some reading on the Irish experience from 1169 (English/Norman invasions) onward.  These people were violently; and with extreme prejudice, oppressed on their own land by a foreign power for hundreds of years. The victimhood of racism isn't solely owned by races and colors other than white.

Unless you trying to show that the Irish are racist too ?  To Which I would reply of course there are/was Irish racists.  Just like there are racists in all bodies of colors and creeds.

Nobody called anybody a racist.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 11:50:10 by mariomike »

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #579 on: September 15, 2017, 11:54:30 »
You don't?

Nope

Nobody called anybody a racist.

Thats not true.  All "white people" are inherently racist if you follow the latest line of progressive thought.
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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #580 on: September 15, 2017, 12:08:02 »
Nope

You brought up, "the Irish experience from 1169" in the Charlottesville thread. I assumed you had a reason.

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #581 on: September 15, 2017, 12:23:28 »
Its all born out of this quote, underlines part.

They were presidents.  :)

Historians agree that there was widespread sentiment against New York Governor Al Smith, who was Irish Catholic ( and, like Kennedy, a Democrat ), in the 1928 US presidential election.
https://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/when-a-catholic-terrified-the-heartland/?mcubz=0

If your point is that Irish Catholics also suffered discrimination?

I would agree. But, I would not say that makes a moral equivalence to what African-Americans experienced.


Which morphed into:

Quote
Really? If you are referring to indentured servitude than its not equivalent to slavery .

And then:

Quote
I think you need to do some reading on the Irish experience from 1169 (English/Norman invasions) onward.  These people were violently; and with extreme prejudice, oppressed on their own land by a foreign power for hundreds of years.  The victimhood of racism isn't solely owned by races and colors other than white.

You cannot discuss the Irish in America with out digging into the roots of the emigration from Erin and the Irish diaspora.  Not to mention the Irish Catholics, during the Potatoe Famine and US Civil War, were not exactly welcome on the shores of the USA unless they were to be used as fodder for the US Civil War.

From there you brought in the NYPD and FDNY:

Quote
No one said anyone is a racist. People are free to vote for the candidate of their choice.

43% of Whites voted for President Obama in 2008.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008#Voter_demographics

38% of Whites voted for President Obama in 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012#Voter_demographics

Discrimination suffered by Irish-Americans has been brought into this discussion of race in America.

I agree there has been discrimination against Irish-Americans.

But, in a discussion of race in America, it should be remembered that Irish are part of the White majority.

By the turn of the 20th century, five out of six NYPD officers were Irish born or of Irish descent. As late as the 1960s, 42% of the NYPD were Irish Americans.

Sadly, on September 11, 2001, 40% of the 343 firefighters and paramedics who lost their lives were of Irish background.

There were many men with Irish surnames on my department when I hired on.

The case of discrimination against the Irish in hiring for civil service jobs is not valid, in my opinion.

And that with some more gobble-dee-goop leads us to now...


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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #582 on: September 15, 2017, 12:27:12 »
Its all born out of this quote,

Actually, it's all born out of this quote,

Reply #546
And how many Irish Catholics?

Kennedy.

Reagan doesn't count. He was from California.

The Irish in America may rate a topic of its own.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 12:31:21 by mariomike »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #583 on: September 15, 2017, 12:50:07 »
Actually, it's all born out of this quote,

Reply #546
The Irish in America may rate a topic of its own.

One could argue, as have some noted historians, that America is less 'free' in many ways than Canada because the Yankees won the Revolutionary War. We can thank the 300,000 Canadiens (at the time of the Conquest ) for more or less presenting the UELs - and the British Empire - with a 'multi-cultural fait accompli'.
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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #584 on: September 15, 2017, 13:12:29 »
Canada was also far more Irish than was the United States. At the time of Confederation, Irish was the second largest ethnic group, after French, in the Dominion of Canada. I am not sure of the percentages for Roman Catholic and Protestant Irish.

Source: 1871 Census cited in Government of Canada, Sixty Years of Progress 1867-1927, (Ottawa, 1927), 39. The actual figures were 1,082,949 French, 846,414 Irish, 706,369 English and 549,946 Scottish as well as lesser numbers of other gouts.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 13:36:56 by Old Sweat »

Offline FJAG

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #585 on: September 30, 2017, 17:33:11 »
Not quite Charlottesville but in the same vein.

This is what real leadership looks like.

Head Of Air Force Academy Tells Cadets: ‘You Should Be Outraged’ By Racial Slurs

“If you can’t treat someone with dignity and respect, then you need to get out,” he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/air-force-academy-racial-slurs_us_59ce2313e4b05f005d339307?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #586 on: September 30, 2017, 18:01:01 »
“If you can’t treat someone with dignity and respect, then you need to get out,” he said.

Same warning we received as probies from a Deputy Chief back in 1972.

Before turning us loose on the citizens of the City, he reminded us that we were recruited from a society with many prejudices.

"I cannot change your beliefs, but if you treat anyone with disrespect, I can change your employment!”




« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 18:39:54 by mariomike »

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #587 on: October 03, 2017, 13:26:31 »
Saw this in Canadian Politics. Replied here,

White nationalist extremists don't even have to show up to their own rallies anymore to cause crap.T

They cancelled a post-Charlottesville torch rally that was to be held in Charlotte, North Carolina—near a Holocaust Memorial and a statue of Martin Luther King Jr.— due to “security concerns.”
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22March+Against+Communism%22+charlotte&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A9%2F23%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A&tbm=

Dec. 14, 2017
"Man Who Rammed Crowd at Charlottesville Rally Charged With First-Degree Murder"
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/first-degree-murder-charge-for-man-who-killed-heather-heyer.html


« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 10:55:52 by mariomike »

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #588 on: March 03, 2018, 21:04:26 »
An independent review of the events is now available.

The focus is on emergency operations, rather than politics.

QUOTE

March 1, 2018

Final Report,

Lessons learned from protest response in Charlottesville
http://www.charlottesville.org/home/showdocument?id=59615
220 pages.

Key points

•Officials’ last-minute decision to move the location of a controversial rally affected preparations, forcing law enforcement to plan for two locations and confusing communication with the public about the event.
•Local law enforcement did not reach out to other communities that had dealt with similar rallies and protests for guidance.
•Information sharing between state and municipal police was lacking and both entities operated independently, a failure of unified command.
•The Charlottesville Fire Department and University of Virginia Health System operations plans held up, allowing personnel to remove and treat numerous injured people within minutes after a violent attack.

Recommendations for Charlottesville and elsewhere
•Police and fire departments should follow the Incident Command System implemented by the National Incident Management System (NIMS) for future protest events.
•Effective and multi-faceted training is needed for officers directed to protect public safety during protest events, to include first amendment training, deescalation techniques, use of force policies and interagency cooperation.
•State and local law enforcement should be clear about their roles during large protest events, and be sure all personnel understand those roles.
•Information gathering well in advance of large events is vital to planning efforts, and law enforcement agencies should develop means to collect and vet this information.
•Engage all community voices — even dissenting voices — to maintain open communication and build trust.
•Expect evolving conditions and plan contingencies to deal with them.

END QUOTE
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 21:25:13 by mariomike »