Author Topic: Single mom now facing medical release from military  (Read 11368 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2017, 13:07:50 »
Becoming a mother is quite in her control, becoming a single mother is in the control of the sperm donor.

I'd say women can be equally guilty of breaking up relationships.
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #76 on: June 27, 2017, 13:14:14 »
Becoming a mother is quite in her control, becoming a single mother is in the control of the sperm donor.
Yes, and we're now on our fourth page of suppositions where little is known, but it's OK to say that Recruiters are habitual liars, she should be allowed to transfer into any other classification to be an Admin burden there (and cause other people to pick up her share of deployments, etc), and if we want to recruit more people, then we better lower all of our standards.

We don't know, but....
- maybe  she turned out to be an absolute *****, driving the 'sperm donor' [  ::) ] away;
- maybe  he said "I'll respect you in the morning," "I've been sterile since birth," and "shucks, I can't even spell STD";
- maybe  some recruiter said "sign here, there's never any training outside of babysitting hours."

I have my doubts, but it's all meaningless.

I guess I'm old school, but I think being responsible for one's own behaviour is an admirable trait .... especially for someone in the military, particularly a potential officer.  How many years more of unemployable but paid service, with her making no progress on her personal circumstances, should taxpayers be on the hook for?

Offline gryphonv

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #77 on: June 27, 2017, 14:17:15 »
Yes, and we're now on our fourth page of suppositions where little is known, but it's OK to say that Recruiters are habitual liars, she should be allowed to transfer into any other classification to be an Admin burden there (and cause other people to pick up her share of deployments, etc), and if we want to recruit more people, then we better lower all of our standards.

We don't know, but....
- maybe  she turned out to be an absolute *****, driving the 'sperm donor' [  ::) ] away;
- maybe  he said "I'll respect you in the morning," "I've been sterile since birth," and "shucks, I can't even spell STD";
- maybe  some recruiter said "sign here, there's never any training outside of babysitting hours."

I have my doubts, but it's all meaningless.

I guess I'm old school, but I think being responsible for one's own behaviour is an admirable trait .... especially for someone in the military, particularly a potential officer.  How many years more of unemployable but paid service, with her making no progress on her personal circumstances, should taxpayers be on the hook for?

I never said once we should lower our standard, and I'm sure the majority of people here feel our standards have already gotten too low.

What I did say on this topic are either things I seen first hand (MARS trade with respect to COT/VOT), and many jaded people who felt they were deceived by recruiting when they originally applied, and seeing more then a few new recruits totally oblivious to the life style they have implanted themselves to. There are failures happening and it is easiest to trace to failures to recruitment/initial training.

This is an unfortunate situation, it should of never got to the point where it was reported with the CBC. She is probably to blame for that as I doubt anyone in the chain tipped them off, that is one thing I cannot defend. Without knowing all the details its hard to really assign blame. One thing though, hard sea trades are arguably the less accommodating when it comes to family issues.

The sad thing is there is a military image that is sold to the public en mass, and then there is a true image that is really only experienced from within. The two rarely mesh well.






Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #78 on: June 27, 2017, 17:56:53 »
This was one of the great things with the old NOAB program (Naval officer assessment boards).  After the recruiting centres did some screening, you would go to one coast or the other and get run through some extra testing and assessment by the navy, but also have the chance to talk to people in the trades you were going into to get the ground truth.

About half the group I went with got either screened out or decided it wasn't for them, so it was probably overall quite an effective program.  It would have been different pots of money though, so it would have shown as a cost (rather than a cost savings by doing some simple math).

Probably wouldn't have made a difference for the naval officer, but talking to a field medic would have saved this lady a lot of grief.

Offline SJBeaton

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #79 on: June 27, 2017, 20:11:25 »
I had to let my daughter go because of my job in the Canadian military

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/single-parent-military-1.4169806

Whenever I am asked if I recommend military life to other women, my answer is always categorically: no.

This usually surprises people who know me because I am a vocal feminist, a bit of a tomboy and a six-year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF). I believe to my core that sex and gender do not, and should not, limit what you can do in life. But women and the armed forces just don't mix.

This saddens me. You are perpetuating the myth that all women are painted with the same brush and you are enabling a stereotype. I am a female in the military, love what I do, have felt supported/encouraged to further my education and career goals, and WOULD highly recommend this career/life-choice to the appropriate female audience (logic prevails in that it won't be a good fit for all, regardless of gender). It would appear that by contributing to articles such as this, you are assisting the media in tainting the public's perception. It's unfortunate that your experience wasn't pleasant for you, but don't ruin it for potential fantastic recruits that are considering the military as an option.

Offline Remius

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #80 on: June 27, 2017, 21:42:14 »
In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, the Military isn't for everyone.  Men and women equally.
Optio

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2017, 22:26:08 »
In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, the Military isn't for everyone.  Men and women equally.

You're missing about 61 genders there pal  ;D
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2017, 22:38:59 »
You're missing about 61 genders there pal  ;D

 >:D

Can you list them?   [:D
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Offline Messerschmitt

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Offline Strike

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #85 on: June 28, 2017, 10:03:35 »
Yes, and we're now on our fourth page of suppositions where little is known, but it's OK to say that Recruiters are habitual liars, she should be allowed to transfer into any other classification to be an Admin burden there (and cause other people to pick up her share of deployments, etc), and if we want to recruit more people, then we better lower all of our standards.

We don't know, but....
- maybe  she turned out to be an absolute *****, driving the 'sperm donor' [  ::) ] away; So that means dad is allowed to ignore that he has a kid too?[/i][/b]
- maybe  he said "I'll respect you in the morning," "I've been sterile since birth," and "shucks, I can't even spell STD"; I think you missed the part where she said they were together a year after the birth of the child.  So not really a one night stand now
- maybe  some recruiter said "sign here, there's never any training outside of babysitting hours."

I have my doubts, but it's all meaningless.

I guess I'm old school...

If old school is hanging on to sexist beliefs and putting the blame on the woman when there is a dad out there somewhere that also should take responsibility then, yes, you're old school.

Break Break

And to the earlier poster who mentioned that even the most robust family care plans can fall apart and that it's impossible to have a babysitter of daycare provider on 24 hr call, I just had that perfect storm a couple of weeks ago.

It was a Monday and the husband had just left for a 5 day run.  My parents had spent the weekend in Ottawa and were driving home.  I was helping out with an Ex on base and was in a building that didn't allow cell phones and there were very few dedicated external lines, and none where I was working.  At about 10 a.m. the baby decided to spike a fever of 103.2 and the daycare tried to get a hold of someone for two hours.  I didn't find out until I went to lunch.  Talk about getting the stink eye when I showed up to take her home.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 10:24:25 by Strike »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #87 on: June 28, 2017, 10:25:15 »
If old school is hanging on to sexist beliefs and putting the blame on the woman when there is a dad out there somewhere that also should take responsibility then, yes, you're old school.
I'm saying we have only her side of the story, and the parts she is willing to tell.


Any thoughts on the part of my post you chose to ignore?
How many years more of unemployable but paid service, with her making no progress on her personal circumstances, should taxpayers be on the hook for?

Offline Strike

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #88 on: June 28, 2017, 10:51:14 »
Honestly, I didn't even address it because of the utterly sexist slide of your comments about the "what if's."

And in my first post to this thread I had a nice little timeline that kind of explained why, in the three years from the time she joined to the time she was told to choose between her kid and the job, she wouldn't have been able to finish her training, because everyone kept going on about how it doesn't take 7 years to get trained.  In reality, her issues with the job started 3 years after joining.  Then the MH issues started because the MARS training system is broken when it comes to dealing with people who want to transfer out.  And we all know that, if there's an MH issue, the CAF (as a whole) tries to stabilize the situation before releasing the member.  So now she's getting out in a month.

So if you want to blame anyone for holding on to her, then blame the medical community for making sure she is stable before they let her go.  Or blame the MARS training system for treating people trying to transfer out like crap (which they do).  Or blame the baby-daddy who, even if they broke up on bad terms, wasn't man enough to take care of his own kid when mom had to go away.  Then, when you've blamed all of them, blame her for at least trying to find ways to make it work (sending her boy to her parents, finding a trade that would get her closer to home and a better support system, etc.).

http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,125973.msg1492372.html#msg1492372

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Offline Strike

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #89 on: June 28, 2017, 10:59:22 »
And in reply to your PM because you decided to block me  ::)

That's funny, because I heard the opposite.

But who cares why they split?  Fact is, daddy doesn't seem to be trying to take care of his own boy because, what, he's got a grudge against mom?

Anyway, when this first came out I wasn't even thinking about the whole single parent woe-is-me thing.  All I thought was that the school needs to sort itself out because that is the 4th time I've heard of them giving someone a hassle because they wanted to switch out of the trade.  In fact one of my friends brought a complaint to the HRC and it was discovered (because she kept a ghost file) that they had willfully changed some of her documents and destroyed others in an effort to discredit her.  They even then tried posting her to the east coast on OJT while she was going through treatment for breast cancer and still recovering from surgery.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #90 on: June 28, 2017, 12:41:02 »
Honestly, I didn't even address it because of the utterly sexist slide of your comments about the "what if's."
There were two posts with sexist slides.  You have overlooked one in your concerns, and the other appears to me as deliberate juxtaposition toward the first post.  You are supposed to see the comments are not okay, and then recognize it is probably also not okay to write-off the father as "sperm donor" and assume relationship failure is his fault.  I get that the technique was brash, but the point seems valid.

Or blame the baby-daddy who, even if they broke up on bad terms, wasn't man enough to take care of his own kid when mom had to go away.
But who cares why they split?  Fact is, daddy doesn't seem to be trying to take care of his own boy because, what, he's got a grudge against mom?
Or maybe he's not being given the option because mom has a grudge against him?  The news article does not get into the detail of if he was willing or had even been asked.  We are not told if the father left mother and child, or if mother with child left father.  There is no coverage of custody arraignments nor court decisions.  To arrive at the conclusions that you have made, do you have facts unavailable to other readers of this thread?

But perhaps the details of how she became a single parent are not germane to this subject.  Perhaps gender is not even germane to this subject?  People become single parents – it happens in different ways and it can happen regardless of one’s status as either mom or dad.  Do we need to look at this topic any more broadly than the troubles of a single parent in the training system?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 12:51:09 by MCG »

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #91 on: June 28, 2017, 13:00:07 »
MCG  You're right.  I swung the pendulum to the other side.  I should have finished it off by pointing out the hypocrisy of that statement thus making my point why the previous one was just as bad.  The morale of the argument being that, if you're going to blame one, then be ready to blame the other.  Otherwise don't blame either side because, you're right, we don't know the whole story.  Even those who might have an "in" have been given conflicting information, right Journeyman?
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #92 on: June 30, 2017, 00:02:23 »
I reread the story. How was Nash singled out and harassed for being a female?


While I'm not sure if it's the case I think CAF members have to realize if they goto  mental health and display significant enough issues then there is a chance they'll be released and can't just smile and say everything is good to go.

I know a couple members who seemed to think they could hop into mental health then hop out but got a crappy surprise.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 17:54:50 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #93 on: June 30, 2017, 16:37:50 »
I reread the story. How was Nash singled out and harassed for being a female?


While I'm not sure if it's the case I think CAF members have to realize if they goto  mental health and display significant enough issues then there is a change they'll be released and can't just smile and say everything is good to go.

I know a couple members who seemed to think they could hop into mental health then hop out but got a crappy surprise.

A few thoughts on your comments, which will form a bit of a tangeant, so I apologize in advance.

I'm speaking on my own experiences *only* and the reason I'm putting my 2 cents in is because I don't want members to be scared off from utilizing CAF's MH services if they feel they need it.

I was a pretty big disaster for a while. I won't go into details, but I'll simply say it wasn't pretty. I was a mess. There were multiple circumstances which contributed to my mental decline (interior and exterior), but I was able to recognize that I was crashing big-time, and sought out MH. Let me tell you, they were a god-send and I was fortune to have fantastic medical staff in my corner also.

I was extremely fearful that my career was going to be in jeopardy, and I was terrified of the stigma surrounding person's needing help, which unfortunately, still exists openly in some people's minds, both in CAF and otherwise. But I knew my personal well-being was more important, and decided to do what was best for me with an attitude of, 'F it, I need to play this hand and let the rest of the cards fall as they may.'

My career did not suffer, I wasn't kicked out and I was seeing mental health for the better part of a year combined. MH and medical staff were able to get things under control, I'm no longer on medication (was on meds for almost 2 years), and I'm pretty much back to normal.

I don't know the details of other's situations and I'm saddened to read of your comments. But I am a huge advocate of the MH services available. They worked with me, they were patient with me and I don't regret my decision to seek them out in any fashion.
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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #94 on: June 30, 2017, 17:07:29 »
I think Jarnhamar might be alluding to people using the MH system who may not exactly need it, as a means to get out of work. The system works wonders who those who need it, and success stories like yours help encourage those that need it to get the help they need.

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2017, 17:46:04 »
I think Jarnhamar might be alluding to people using the MH system who may not exactly need it, as a means to get out of work. The system works wonders who those who need it, and success stories like yours help encourage those that need it to get the help they need.

Ah yes, I can see that now. I initially interpreted it in another light and thought to encourage readers not to be hesitant to use the system out of fear of repercussions.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2017, 18:03:05 »
For every story like this, we can see hundreds of stories of single parents managing.  This is one story that has been leapt upon by the MSM and they are selling papers, but not necessarily telling the whole story.  If they didn't sensationalize it, they would be out of jobs.
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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #97 on: June 30, 2017, 20:32:16 »
For every story like this, we can never see hundreds of stories of single parents managing ... 
That's more like it ...
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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #98 on: June 30, 2017, 20:44:57 »
For every story like this, we can see hundreds of stories of single parents managing. 

We have read some of them here,

CF member as a single parent-on course, deployed ect... [MERGED]
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=50191.125
6 pages.

Joining The Canadian Forces 
OP: "I have to make arrangements to have my daughter taken care of (single mother)..."
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=87512.0

Looking for Opinions 
OP: "I became a single mother  and was looking for a stable source of income."
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=110585.0

Leaving Children For Training, Etc. -Merged
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=32203.50
4 pages.

need some help figuring out a mess im in 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=90446.0
OP: "my parents informed me they could no longer watch my 2 1/2 yr old daughter. being a single mom that is a problem. so while my platoon was graduating I had a red flagged vr to get home asap."

Child Care - Before, During and After Basic- Merged 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=46873.0

Single parenting in the CF - A personal story
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,60342.0.html

Single parenting in the CF - Another personal story
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,83897.0.html

why bother?
OP: "Here's me... a 24 year old single mother of 2..."
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=28806.0

OP: "Hypothetical scenario/Question, would a single parent be able to enrol in the CAF? If so are they provided some kind of assistance for child care while they are on course?"
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=124592.0

OP: "I won't be applying for a year and a half however, as I have to make arrangements to have my daughter taken care of (single mother) and complete my high school."
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=87512.0

OP: "Also being a single mom, is childcare or something similar provided by the force?"
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,106181.0/nowap.html

Single parent
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+single+personal&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=PxBsWMavJoKN8QeTvqOgAw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22single+parent%22

etc...



« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 21:13:54 by mariomike »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #99 on: July 01, 2017, 09:20:38 »
I have to say that, the media picks up on this...single parent stuff.  How many MSCs are there where one parent is *living the single parent life while serving*.  I don't see the media all up in arms about THOSE *single parents*.  They also face the *suck it up, or 1 of you release/give up your career* choice.

*Selective Sympathy*?
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