Author Topic: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]  (Read 164399 times)

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Offline jeffb

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #225 on: November 20, 2018, 23:08:09 »
A cheap option for accommodations is to check out another base. Kingston is not too far and I believe transient accommodations are only something like $10 a night. Call the base number, press 0 and ask the operator for base accommodations. They should be able to tell you. 
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Offline Andriyko

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Re: BMQ Xmas leave
« Reply #226 on: November 21, 2018, 00:44:50 »
Hi, I’m now in TRP platoon (injury from BMQ).  But I can’t go to my next of kin in Xmas leave.  Basically I’m homeless when the base is closed for holidays.  Any advice please? Padre looks like could only recommend cheap hotels for me.  Chain of command instructor seems not care.  I’m already in debt a lot because of coming here for the course.  Is there any base can take care of the homeless recruit at no cost or very low cost? Looking forward to your advice.  Thanks

Why cant you stay in your current accommodation, I get the base is shutting down for the holidays but its not like they will padlock the doors in the shacks. I have heard of pats staying over the holidays at Aldershot. I would just stay and if someone asks, say you dont plan to go home for the holidays and let them figure it out. usually they want everyone gone because the kitchens shut down but you can just buy your own food.

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: BMQ Xmas leave
« Reply #227 on: November 21, 2018, 00:49:57 »
Why cant you stay in your current accommodation, I get the base is shutting down for the holidays but its not like they will padlock the doors in the shacks. I have heard of pats staying over the holidays at Aldershot. I would just stay and if someone asks, say you dont plan to go home for the holidays and let them figure it out. usually they want everyone gone because the kitchens shut down but you can just buy your own food.

No, that’s not how it works at CFLRS. You can’t “...just stay and if someone asks...”
“I’m so sick of people thinking they can just waltz into my office when I’m obviously listening to music in 4/4.”

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #228 on: November 21, 2018, 17:16:48 »
I’d be surprised if someone from your CoC was not looking for a solution behind the scenes.

I don’t know the policies off hand, but what is the responsibility of the CAF in this situation?   This individual is on basic, can’t afford to go home, can’t afford a hotel and is essentially going to be forced out.

I don’t think it’s right to just say suck it up princess, see you in a few days.

It’s probably worth it to get ahold of these folks

“the Exacta Centre at 450-358-7099, ext. 6110, or at CentreExactaSJN@forces.gc.ca”.    Military accommodations within the Saint Jean Garrison, maybe you can get another room in another building for the days you are forced out?  I don’t know the area that well or even if it’s possible.   They should be able to point you in the right direction though.

The local MFRC might be able to help you as well, ask about rentals from them.  Some bases do have rooms/houses they rent out for pretty cheap.   Usually with a caveat that you have to vacate if there’s an emergency.   




Offline ballz

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Re: BMQ Xmas leave
« Reply #229 on: November 21, 2018, 19:51:31 »
Sorry to hear you’re on TRP. I hope you heal-up quickly and get back to it. Yup, it’s the way it goes there. Staff doesn’t want to have to stay—they want to leave over Xmas block leave also, so recruits are told to to get out. Everything will go down to minimal personnel only and all recruit areas (messes, quarters etc) are locked down. 

I’m not sure what’s considered “cheap” in terms of hotels in the area (I only recall the usual popular ones, although there are a couple of small-name places on the other side of the canal with kitchenettes and such, but I can’t remember the names now), but you’ll absolutely have to find somewhere to go. Your staff will work with you to figure something out if it absolutely comes down to it—they have to. But ideally, you need to make arrangements. Are you friends enough with anyone in your platoon you can ask to crash with? I know you wouldn’t want to feel like a burden, but I bet you’re not the only one at CFLRS in this position. There were a couple of recruits in similar circumstances when I was there.

Sounds to me like the CAF should be putting these people in a hotel and paying them per diem rates.

The CAF posts you there on a prohibited posting, so you don't have a "home," your home is the CAF and whatever shacks they put you in. You pay for rations & quarters while there as a result. The CAF now decides to close the doors on your home for a few days (a week, two weeks?) because the CAF members that run the place need to have time off. You are now homeless because of the CAF.

If I were this guy I'd be submitting a notice of intent to grieve tomorrow...
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: BMQ Xmas leave
« Reply #230 on: November 21, 2018, 20:17:33 »
Sounds to me like the CAF should be putting these people in a hotel and paying them per diem rates.

The CAF posts you there on a prohibited posting, so you don't have a "home," your home is the CAF and whatever shacks they put you in. You pay for rations & quarters while there as a result. The CAF now decides to close the doors on your home for a few days (a week, two weeks?) because the CAF members that run the place need to have time off. You are now homeless because of the CAF.

If I were this guy I'd be submitting a notice of intent to grieve tomorrow...

I’d mentioned in my post, albeit briefly, that staff WILL work with him and make arrangements. But ideally, (and this depends on individual staff how hard they push) they want the recruits to have arrangements made. Obviously, if there are absolutely zero options available for the recruit, and all possibilities have been exhausted then staff will have to figure something out. But yea, when I was there, they left the onus up to the recruit for as long as possible and staying at CFLRS was absolutely not an option.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 20:21:14 by BeyondTheNow »
“I’m so sick of people thinking they can just waltz into my office when I’m obviously listening to music in 4/4.”

Offline ballz

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Re: BMQ Xmas leave
« Reply #231 on: November 21, 2018, 20:25:51 »
they left the onus up to the recruit for as long as possible

Sounds like great "leadership" at leadership school where they sell all the fairy tales about how we look after our people. Literally try and leave out brand new recruits, not even basic qualified, to solve the problems the CAF created. This could fit well in that thread about recruiting/retention issues.

Disdain in this and other posts not directed at you personally.
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #232 on: November 21, 2018, 20:28:44 »
Christmas leave is what, a month away from now for the recruits? Probably should let the CoC do their thing.

On a slightly related topic, are recruits paying R&Q while they are at BMQ? I assume this would cease for the few weeks they're away.

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: BMQ Xmas leave
« Reply #233 on: November 21, 2018, 20:31:03 »
Sounds like great "leadership" at leadership school where they sell all the fairy tales about how we look after our people. Literally try and leave out brand new recruits, not even basic qualified, to solve the problems the CAF created. This could fit well in that thread about recruiting/retention issues.

Disdain in this and other posts not directed at you personally.

That’s ok, I didn’t take it personally and I largely agree. I have many, many opinions about CFLRS and the things I witnessed during my time there, but I’d be well outside my lanes critiquing them to any serious degree, so I usually just keep my trap (mostly) zipped.
“I’m so sick of people thinking they can just waltz into my office when I’m obviously listening to music in 4/4.”

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #234 on: November 21, 2018, 20:36:12 »
Christmas leave is what, a month away from now for the recruits? Probably should let the CoC do their thing.

On a slightly related topic, are recruits paying R&Q while they are at BMQ? I assume this would cease for the few weeks they're away.

Yes they pay R&Q. In 2015 R were around $550/month and Q were approx $100/month. If married, no Q charges were deducted. As well, R&Q charges weren’t lessened to account for Xmas leave. As far as I’m aware, it’s still the same.
“I’m so sick of people thinking they can just waltz into my office when I’m obviously listening to music in 4/4.”

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #235 on: November 22, 2018, 12:46:48 »
Yes they pay R&Q. In 2015 R were around $550/month and Q were approx $100/month. If married, no Q charges were deducted. As well, R&Q charges weren’t lessened to account for Xmas leave. As far as I’m aware, it’s still the same.

Rations & Quarters should be lessened to account for XMAS leave.   Isn't that why we have that little section on our leave passes?   

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #236 on: November 22, 2018, 16:37:47 »
Rations & Quarters should be lessened to account for XMAS leave.   Isn't that why we have that little section on our leave passes?

It was explained to me that Xmas break is already factored into the budget/amounts for FY when rates are set at CFLRS.  I don’t know if this is how they do things across the board for any type of course running over block leave (RegF) CAF-wide, but I DO know that there are different types of training/courses where the rates haven’t been adjusted due to Xmas—the amount is the amount, it stays the same. I haven’t done any RegF clerking specifically related to R&Q on a base, only PRes. So I can’t speak on details for how it’s all calculated. This info was just what was passed to me.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 16:47:04 by BeyondTheNow »
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #237 on: November 23, 2018, 10:39:18 »
Rations & Quarters should be lessened to account for XMAS leave.   Isn't that why we have that little section on our leave passes?

Actually, no.  It's the opposite.  R&Q rates are set nationally (i.e. NOT by the base) and annual leave is factored into the rate on the assumption that the member will not be staying in quarters or eating at the mess while on leave.  The section on the leave pass is there to let the ration accounting section know that the member in question is not entitled to rations for the period of the leave pass.  Members on leave are actually supposed to buy meal tickets if they choose to eat in the mess at that time, even if they are on ration strength.

Technical stuff:  CFAO 34-16 states the following:

RATIONS PROVIDED WITHOUT CHARGE

4.     The commanding officer (CO) of a base, unit or ship providing food
services is authorized to draw rations for and provide meals without charge
to:


The way this works is that the Ration Accounting Section on the base will get a monthly report on the number of personnel on ration strength (i.e. those entitled to meals either because they are paying for them through their pay accounts or are entitled to free meals).  They use that number to calculate the amount of public funds they are allowed to draw in order to meet their dining requirements.  Leave passes are included in this calculation and so the CO cannot draw funds to feed anyone on leave.  Hence personnel on leave are not entitled to eat in the mess, unless they buy an additional meal ticket.

None of what I've said here, however, absolves the chain of command from looking after the OP and ensuring he has a roof over his head.
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Offline kev994

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #238 on: November 23, 2018, 21:54:59 »
Rations, sure. But you can’t tell me that the member has to clear out of their SQ every time they go on leave. So I would argue the member is already paying for accommodations.

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #239 on: January 03, 2019, 11:07:49 »
Hi all, thank you all replies.  I have solved the problem.  I could not reply earlier because my account was stuck.

Basically, I stayed in Montreal cheap room (AIRBNB website, recommended by an instructor).  I have no car so they won't allow / recommend me to stay in base/ other base.  The padre helped me a lot in both emotional and actual support.  I recommend recruits to seek help/ discussion with padre regardless you have religious belief or not.  Their goal is to help not to persuade/ judge people on their believes.

Thank you all.  Have a wonderful 2019.

Offline lid

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #240 on: October 03, 2019, 18:55:16 »
Hi all, thank you all replies.  I have solved the problem.  I could not reply earlier because my account was stuck.

Basically, I stayed in Montreal cheap room (AIRBNB website, recommended by an instructor).  I have no car so they won't allow / recommend me to stay in base/ other base.  The padre helped me a lot in both emotional and actual support.  I recommend recruits to seek help/ discussion with padre regardless you have religious belief or not.  Their goal is to help not to persuade/ judge people on their believes.

Thank you all.  Have a wonderful 2019.

Thanks very much for this reply.
I think this means for Nov BMQ / BMOQ, you cannot stay in CFLRS during Christmax block leave (3 weeks).
I will probably keep renting my current place for the period.

Is it possible to get leave travel allowance for the block leave period?

Offline CountDC

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #241 on: October 23, 2019, 13:18:09 »

Is it possible to get leave travel allowance for the block leave period?

The best one to answer this is the staff there on base.  By the way it is assistance not allowance.   May not seem important but having to deal with numerous people over the years it is the first step to helping them understand why they only get a certain amount reimbursed instead of all. 
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Offline dangerboy

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #242 on: October 23, 2019, 13:39:52 »

Is it possible to get leave travel allowance for the block leave period?

This website has the the info about Leave Travel Assistance (LTA) https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/compensation-benefits-instructions/chapter-209-transportation-expenses.html#sec-209-50 (look at 209.50)

209.50(3) (Entitlement) A member of the Regular Force – or of the Reserve Force who is both on Class B or C Reserve Service and authorized to move their household goods and effects at public expense for that Class B or C Reserve Service – is entitled to LTA if all of the following conditions are satisfied after 31 January 2011:
   a. The member is on leave under QR&O chapter 16 (Leave), except under article 16.18 (Retirement Leave), article 16.25 (Leave
       Without Pay and Allowances), article 16.26 (Maternity Leave) and article 16.27 (Parental Leave) of the QR&O;
   b. the member has a family member;
   c. during leave, either the member travels to see a family member or a family member travels to see the member;
   d. the member provides proof of travel to an authorized destination;
   e. the member is not entitled to a payment for travel expenses under section 21 (Home Leave Travel Assistance) of the Military
       Foreign Service Instructions; and
   f.  only in respect of a member with a dependant, the member is – for 60 continuous days – either entitled to Separation Expense
       under CBI 208.997 (Separation Expense) or absent – for service reasons – from their place of duty.
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Offline ballz

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #243 on: October 23, 2019, 20:35:05 »
May not seem important but having to deal with numerous people over the years it is the first step to helping them understand why they only get a certain amount reimbursed instead of all.

Also seems to help confuse DCBA into thinking they can arbitrarily limit the TB-approved benefits :stirpot:

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Offline CountDC

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #244 on: October 24, 2019, 09:25:16 »
haven't seen that - perhaps you would like to explain so the rest of us can understand what you are referring to.
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Offline ballz

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #245 on: October 24, 2019, 20:17:00 »
LTA is seriously one of the most overanalyzed benefits I've ever seen. The policy is written pretty clearly and somehow DCBA has turned it into rocket appliances.

We will likely need this moved to the LTA thread, but let's start with how a taxi, supported by a receipt, is apparently not an "actual cost" of travelling from your home (place of duty) to your family member's home (the principle residence) when you travel by commercial air.... unless you live in an airport, and your family member lives in an airport, local transportation supported by a receipt is most definitely an actual cost of travelling of return travel by commercial carrier.

And the most irritating counter-argument, "no, because it's only assistance." That's not an argument. It doesn't matter if it's called purple monkey wrenches benefit, if the policy says you get blue bananas, you get blue bananas.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 20:21:45 by ballz »
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #246 on: November 04, 2019, 13:31:17 »
ah I see;  perhaps CBI's would help which is clear on what is claimable for LTA.

the amount of LTA is the lesser of:

a.the actual cost of return travel by commercial carrier,
i.in respect of a service couple who meet at a place of duty, from the member's place of duty to the other member's place of duty; and
ii.in any other case, from the member's place of duty to the principal residence; and

b.the amount determined by the formula,

[({Dx2} - 800) - P] x OLKR

where

D is the most direct kilometric road distance,
P is the distance the member travels as a passenger in a private motor vehicle with another person who is reimbursed at public expense for travelling that distance; and

OLKR is the Ontario lower kilometric rate in Appendix A of the National Joint Council Commuting Assistance Directive, as amended from time to time

and of course

commercial carrier
includes but not limited to
:
a.a commercial passenger aviation service;
b.a commercial passenger railway service;
c.a commercial inter-city bus service; or
d.a ferry service,
i. between two locations within British Columbia, or
ii. between any two of the following provinces: New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island.

Oops - commercial carrier - did that just say NOT LIMITED TO!!   ;D  Isn't a taxi a commercial carrier? How about local bus/subway?  Don't see where it says only one carrier can be used.

Yep, things sure are clear there.

Here's an idea - how about someone that has an LTA claim with expenses not paid redress it? 
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Offline ballz

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #247 on: November 04, 2019, 19:23:12 »
Oops - commercial carrier - did that just say NOT LIMITED TO!!   ;D  Isn't a taxi a commercial carrier? How about local bus/subway?  Don't see where it says only one carrier can be used.

Yep, things sure are clear there.

Glad you agree that things are clear that a taxi/bus/subway/etc should be covered. DCBA will not allow anyone to cover those things. They have somehow determined that "actual costs" don't include "local transportation."

Here's an idea - how about someone that has an LTA claim with expenses not paid redress it?

I've been looking for someone who is eligible to let me do a redress for them and they can sign it. I can't personally because my eligible family member lives too close.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Leave Policy – Christmas / Holidays [Merged]
« Reply #248 on: November 05, 2019, 13:47:09 »
Yeah, I can't because you can not file a redress on behalf of someone else, you can only file for yourself and my family is with me.

Hopefully someone does though so I can stop trying to explain to people it is because of a policy pushed down and not just because I picked it out of my *** today.
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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