Author Topic: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible  (Read 22115 times)

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Offline NSDreamer

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Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« on: March 30, 2016, 11:59:39 »
 I can't believe there isn't a thread already. Does no one else have civilian employees on here!


 Is ANYONE having any success with the phoenix pay system? I am having problem, after problem trying to get my people paid...+

It'll be cheaper they said, it'll be easier they said, senior officers are now pay clerks they should have said  :facepalm:
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 12:08:18 »
Are your folks casuals?  Term?  Students?

For indeterminate pers, it seems to be ticking along just fine.

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Offline Remius

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 12:14:18 »
Working fine where I'm at.
Optio

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 12:18:03 »
I've got over 30 indeterminates. If it works, it's great. It doesn't work if any of the following is true:

They are  on Return to Work Program.
They are Casuals.
They work ANY irregular hours or are a shift worker.
They are on pre-retirement transitionary schedules.
They work weekends.

 I've got folks on the return to work program who didn't get paid, had their hours in, which I can't see because I'm military, then I got the run around from pay comp and phoenix with contradicting directions, eventually with HR help submitted an emergency pay request as the employees in question are in financial hardship. Emergency pay request is then denied because derp derp they should have submitted in the phoenix system...which they did.

God help me with my shift workers, I have to manually submit every single employees schedule every pay run and have it signed by a section 34 authority (which I am not). Also keep in mind I don't have access to the system to submit them in because I'm military, so I  have to submit them in the pay enquiry system who then...derp derp deny them and tell me to somehow magically submit them in phoenix. I have the Sect 34 submit them, nope MUST be their direct manager...and it goes on. I've probably put over 10 man hours a week into this since phoenix came out.

 *edited some bad grammar and typos.
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Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 12:20:27 »
Working fine where I'm at.


...trade? :nod:
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Offline cavalryman

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 12:28:24 »
Cheer up.  The CAF will be paid via the Phoenix system sometime in 2021  [:p

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 12:58:18 »
Cheer up.  The CAF will be paid via the Phoenix system sometime in 2021  [:p

Heh, but at least this should be easy...I mean we all work 7.5 hours a day, every day, no schedules matter....right?

Poor reservists though...that's going to suck.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 13:04:31 »

...trade? :nod:

If you are willing to put up with understaffing, vague priorities and high turnover...wait maybe we work for the same people?

Kidding btw.
Optio

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 13:48:57 »
I've got over 30 indeterminates. If it works, it's great. It doesn't work if any of the following is true:

They are  on Return to Work Program.
They are Casuals.
They work ANY irregular hours or are a shift worker.
They are on pre-retirement transitionary schedules.
They work weekends.

 I've got folks on the return to work program who didn't get paid, had their hours in, which I can't see because I'm military, then I got the run around from pay comp and phoenix with contradicting directions, eventually with HR help submitted an emergency pay request as the employees in question are in financial hardship. Emergency pay request is then denied because derp derp they should have submitted in the phoenix system...which they did.

God help me with my shift workers, I have to manually submit every single employees schedule every pay run and have it signed by a section 34 authority (which I am not). Also keep in mind I don't have access to the system to submit them in because I'm military, so I  have to submit them in the pay enquiry system who then...derp derp deny them and tell me to somehow magically submit them in phoenix. I have the Sect 34 submit them, nope MUST be their direct manager...and it goes on. I've probably put over 10 man hours a week into this since phoenix came out.

 *edited some bad grammar and typos.

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Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 14:27:34 »
If you are willing to put up with understaffing, vague priorities and high turnover...wait maybe we work for the same people?

Kidding btw.

-eyes his half packed suit case- I'll....just put this stuff back then...
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Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 14:28:26 »
Welcome to my world!!

 Haha it's crowded here from what HR is telling me, we've got a lot of neighbors in the same boat.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Public Service Pay System
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2016, 12:53:45 »
The Government roll out its new Pay system for public servants and it seems it has some major issues:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-pay-single-mother-1.3677464

How can a Government be so passive with its servants that it leaves them without a salary for months?!  Are people being held accountable? Or, as good Canadians, we'll just say that there were no ill intentions and turn a blind eye to incompetence?  Is there any active effort into implementing temporary measures?

I just can't believe this happens in this day and age.  I hope the affected people take the Government to court and wins....

Offline Scott

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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 14:02:59 »
I'm sure the transition to PHOENIX will be flawless, should the CAF change over from its current pay system(s).


...and folks thought RPSR was a "slightly less than optimal" pay system...

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Offline marinemech

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2016, 14:22:48 »
i am surprised that the people have not started going after the maker of the problem system...IBM... the old system worked and now the system does not work, and is having rather disastrous effects across the board, will they be held accountable (highly doubt it - likely have protection clause)   

Offline DAA

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2016, 14:33:13 »
Had a nice chat last week with an elected official and when the topic came up, even they mentioned that their staff were having issues with receiving payments.

I'm not familiar with the new system but I can't see it being too difficult to issue "contingency" and or "cheque" payments similar to the way the CAF works.  There was the odd time where a member on deployment was not paid, the spouse called to inquire and within the hour, someone was knocking on their door to hand deliver a cheque and ready to take them to the bank to cash it if need be.   But in todays systems, it's all DFT.  So whilst the problem can be identified and hopefully resolved quickly, it will still take 2-4 days for the payment to show up in the persons bank account.

It's all about "customer service" and when someone goes that long without receiving payment, there's obviously something wrong and not just with the Phoenix System.
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2016, 14:42:01 »
I would be shocked if it turns out to be the software. As other's have said, if you work a plain jane vanilla job with nothing that changes and have been there awhile, no issues the system works fine. The issue, from where I sit, and the problems that I am dealing with, all have to do with the process and the individuals implementing it. There aren't enough people to manually input and approve the new hires, overtime, deployments, etc. and answer the phones/e-mails, and learn the new system.

On our base, the powers that be have authorized several emergency cash payments as advances on pay from the cashier. This was after getting fed up when no one in the CHRO's CoC would sign off on the payments, even though we had an approved process in place from RCAF command.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2016, 14:44:33 »
Is it that the new computer system does not work, or that there are problems in implementing the new processes around the new system?  Are there problems with source HR data that never came out before because data was entered twice - once into the pay system and once into the HR system?  Ultimately, building a single unified system to do HR and pay should result in better quality data in the system, improving service to individuals and reducing the cost of maintaining the system.  But getting from a wide array of different systems with different levels of data quality to a single system is more of a challenge than initially thought.

That said, there do appear to be managers not familiar with their responsibility to look after their subordinates.  If one of my staff was unpaid for months on end, I would be engaging on their behalf, and arranging emergency payments if required.  Stories in the news of folks eating boiled rice three meals a day, or having maxxed out credit cards all because they are not being paid are indications of pay system problems, but also of management and leadership problems that no amount of technology will address.


(For the record: my pay under the new system currently has at least five glitches that I have identified - cancellation of payments, deducting pension contributions on earnings I am not being paid, and lack of withholding of certain deductions.  I'm not in a dire situation by any stretch of the imagination, though.)
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2016, 16:10:48 »
Except only the affected member or a Trusted Source can contact the pay centre. There is actually very little a manager can do, to get an individual their money. We have a cashier here, so we just went ahead and made emergency cash payments, after accessing the risk. But, there are very few other departments that can do something like this. Nobody can produce local cheques anymore, and very few organizations have petty cash. And, for casual employees and students, there is no way to recover the funds if any overpayments are made, so in a risk averse organization, that is a factor.

Offline DAA

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2016, 16:21:09 »
Except only the affected member or a Trusted Source can contact the pay centre. There is actually very little a manager can do, to get an individual their money. We have a cashier here, so we just went ahead and made emergency cash payments, after accessing the risk. But, there are very few other departments that can do something like this. Nobody can produce local cheques anymore, and very few organizations have petty cash. And, for casual employees and students, there is no way to recover the funds if any overpayments are made, so in a risk averse organization, that is a factor.

Interesting.  Two separate systems as far as I know.  How do you plan on recovering your "advanced" payments from the civilian employee once they do get paid?
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2016, 16:32:42 »
They are two separate systems. We gave him an advance on his pay, using a CF52 I believe, and paid him in cash. The expectation is he will bring in the funds to repay the advance on his pay once the lump sum comes in. Yes, there is risk, but there are methods to submit a pay debit against indeterminate civilian pay if he doesn't. Sometimes you need to do what is right.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2016, 22:52:44 »
Managers can do little directly, but they can put pressure upwards.  They can gather information to push it higher so that their supervisors, directors and directors general know the scope of the problem and the people whose lives are being affected.  Which, of course, lets the affected employee know that someone is on their side and making more efforts on their behalf.

Or they can sit back and think that it's someone else's problem to resolve.

Interesting that despite all the "Blueprint 2020" and other feel-good buzzwords about embracing new tools for communication, a quick look at the twitter feeds for the Clerk of the Privy Council, the ADM at PSPC responsible for Phoenix and her second in command shows... nothing.  Not a word.  A comms lockdown, it would appear...

https://twitter.com/Clerk_GC https://twitter.com/brigitte_fortin https://twitter.com/rosannadipaola


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Offline runormal

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2016, 07:16:21 »
Personally not having any problems, but definitely are issues in my organization/government wide.

A good buddy of mine went from a casual to indeterminate in the same job/department (different position #/team) He hasn't been paid in almost 2 months. He got an emergency payment, but he has been living off his savings.

I feel that there are multiple problems:

- Rolled out too quickly (# of departments/lack of testing) http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/government-expanding-new-pay-system-to-67-departments-despite-fact-its-been-a-disaster-so-far
- Under-specified in requirements (Haven't researched this, but giving IBM the benefit of the doubt, and knowing that there are a lot of special situations within the government)
- Centralization of pay services at the same, while cutting pay advisers from most organizations (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/miramichi-public-service-pay-centre-staff-struggling-with-workload-1.3126806)

While I work the standard 7.5/day 35 hours a week and have no leave/benefits as a casual, it has "worked" for me . The biggest gripe I have for leave is I can't officially request/report it until the week of, so if I want to book something off in two months in advance, yes I can ask my manager but I can't physically book it off until that week. With the old system I would of just requested it and pay would have processed it and no issues there. Seeing how some people haven't been paid for months, I'm not going to ***** to loudly at this.


Offline Colin P

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2016, 10:35:22 »
I suspect Be a "team player and stop being so critical" is a major factor in this. No one is willing to stand in front of the cart and say "it's not ready"

Offline blackberet17

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Re: Public Service Pay System
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2016, 10:42:45 »
Adding to runnormal's points:

- hiring of almost entirely new staff to work the Pheonix pay system - the majority of the personnel working in the regional pay systems were let go, and new staff hired in Miramichi. This was partly as compensation for Miramichi losing the gun registry;
- failure to take care and correct the glitches as they occurred and pay services were switched over; these were ignored, and more and more departments were switched over.
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