Author Topic: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)  (Read 124619 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline E.R. Campbell

  • Retired, years ago
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 491,050
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,432
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #225 on: November 24, 2015, 06:06:19 »
It was the number one trending news story on my facebook yesterday. 

The optics of this are terrible.  Especially with a 600 bed Kingston Pen sitting empty on the Kingston waterfront.


The "optics" of putting refugees in an old, 19th century, penitentiary that was too bad for Canada's worst convicts would be far, far worse ...
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
----------
Like what you see/read here on Army.ca?  Subscribe, and help keep it "on the air!"

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 139,819
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,600
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #226 on: November 24, 2015, 06:08:41 »

The "optics" of putting refugees in an old, 19th century, penitentiary that was too bad for Canada's worst convicts would be far, far worse ...

Would it be though?  I've heard many people in Kingston suggesting it.  It would also fulfill the Whole of Government Approach  8)

Disclaimer - I agree we shouldn't put them in an old prison but I also think CFB Kingston hasn't done the best job, nobody has a smick what the heck is going on around here.  The base commander should have a town hall to clear the air.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 06:11:47 by Humphrey Bogart »

Offline Old Sweat

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 226,615
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,930
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #227 on: November 24, 2015, 06:27:04 »
Would it be though?  I've heard many people in Kingston suggesting it.  It would also fulfill the Whole of Government Approach  8)

Disclaimer - I agree we shouldn't put them in an old prison but I also think CFB Kingston hasn't done the best job, nobody has a smick what the heck is going on around here.  The base commander should have a town hall to clear the air.

I think it goes higher than the base commander. Speculating here, but there may well have been direction prohibiting public announcements or disclosure of details until the Minister of Immigration and Refugees provides details of the plan later today. Good, well okay not bad intentions, but lousy unexpected consequences.

In the meantime, the troops are not gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 139,819
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,600
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #228 on: November 24, 2015, 06:38:52 »
I think it goes higher than the base commander. Speculating here, but there may well have been direction prohibiting public announcements or disclosure of details until the Minister of Immigration and Refugees provides details of the plan later today. Good, well okay not bad intentions, but lousy unexpected consequences.

In the meantime, the troops are not gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

Nobody has been muzzled.  A plan was circulated around a week ago via email but none of that was ever communicated to the troops.  Another case of leadership by email. 

Also, you can clear the air without divulging too much information.

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 162,280
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,172
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #229 on: November 24, 2015, 06:53:05 »


Also, you can clear the air without divulging too much information.

Agreed. Or set the tone.
Optio

Offline Strike

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 34,541
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,463
  • Welcome to the Dead Parrot's Society.
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #230 on: November 24, 2015, 08:24:49 »
I think it goes higher than the base commander. Speculating here, but there may well have been direction prohibiting public announcements or disclosure of details until the Minister of Immigration and Refugees provides details of the plan later today. Good, well okay not bad intentions, but lousy unexpected consequences.

In the meantime, the troops are not gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

Here's the problem in a nutshell:
1.  The CAF is still under the writ period from the election.  One of the main reasons for this is the extended delay in the ministers sorting out their staff (hires and such) and being able to come out with a comms plan for both the GoC as a whole and then its smaller organizations (like CAF, Tpt Can, etc.).  Until that PAG is developed and released, the CAF has to get approvals at the highest levels for the simplest of media opportunities.

2.  The CAF is not the lead in this, so it isn't up to us to announce anything, and especially not first, to the media.

3.  The overall plan has yet to be released, which is also why it hasn't been shared completely with units on bases/within CAF that don't have a direct impact on the whole affair.  And because of the sensitivity of the whole thing, there are a very limited number of people who have seen any of the plans out there.

It's fine to suggest a town hall, but then soldiers go home and tell their spouses, who tell their families, who post it on FB and suddenly the 'might happen' becomes ' is happening.'  And it's hard to turn off that tap once it starts going.
Stop assuming I'm a man!

Don't know how long I want to keep playing this game...

Offline E.R. Campbell

  • Retired, years ago
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 491,050
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,432
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #231 on: November 24, 2015, 08:33:52 »
Here's the problem in a nutshell:
1.  The CAF is still under the writ period from the election.  One of the main reasons for this is the extended delay in the ministers sorting out their staff (hires and such) and being able to come out with a comms plan for both the GoC as a whole and then its smaller organizations (like CAF, Tpt Can, etc.).  Until that PAG is developed and released, the CAF has to get approvals at the highest levels for the simplest of media opportunities.

2.  The CAF is not the lead in this, so it isn't up to us to announce anything, and especially not first, to the media.

3.  The overall plan has yet to be released, which is also why it hasn't been shared completely with units on bases/within CAF that don't have a direct impact on the whole affair.  And because of the sensitivity of the whole thing, there are a very limited number of people who have seen any of the plans out there.

It's fine to suggest a town hall, but then soldiers go home and tell their spouses, who tell their families, who post it on FB and suddenly the 'might happen' becomes ' is happening.'  And it's hard to turn off that tap once it starts going.


Thanks, Strike, that makes perfect sense: no Public Affairs Guidance ... yet; DND is not the lead; and the "plan," such as it is is on close hold. It is a recipe for media (and general) speculation and it allows the media to make the CF leadership look less than stellar ... even if that is not the intent.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
----------
Like what you see/read here on Army.ca?  Subscribe, and help keep it "on the air!"

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 162,280
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,172
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #232 on: November 24, 2015, 08:38:04 »
Here's the problem in a nutshell:
1.  The CAF is still under the writ period from the election.  One of the main reasons for this is the extended delay in the ministers sorting out their staff (hires and such) and being able to come out with a comms plan for both the GoC as a whole and then its smaller organizations (like CAF, Tpt Can, etc.).  Until that PAG is developed and released, the CAF has to get approvals at the highest levels for the simplest of media opportunities.

2.  The CAF is not the lead in this, so it isn't up to us to announce anything, and especially not first, to the media.

3.  The overall plan has yet to be released, which is also why it hasn't been shared completely with units on bases/within CAF that don't have a direct impact on the whole affair.  And because of the sensitivity of the whole thing, there are a very limited number of people who have seen any of the plans out there.

It's fine to suggest a town hall, but then soldiers go home and tell their spouses, who tell their families, who post it on FB and suddenly the 'might happen' becomes ' is happening.'  And it's hard to turn off that tap once it starts going.

All good points.  I've been privy (like many here) to bits and pieces but have no idea about the larger plan or even how those bits and pieces fit in it.  I can surmise but that can lead to false info and what not.

I think that Bogarts suggestion of a town hall is more along the lines of letting the troops know that stuff might happen and that there may or may not be some disruption and that they are being counted on to be flexible and professional.  Eevn just stating that they haven't received any orders or instructions but to be prepared should that happen.   It may not seem like much but even something that vague can put them in right mind set should something happen.
Optio

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 162,280
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,172
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #233 on: November 24, 2015, 08:40:02 »

Thanks, Strike, that makes perfect sense: no Public Affairs Guidance ... yet; DND is not the lead; and the "plan," such as it is is on close hold. It is a recipe for media (and general) speculation and it allows the media to make the CF leadership look less than stellar ... even if that is not the intent.

And already social media and those against bringing in refugee are talking about this making soldiers and veterans homeless... ::)
Optio

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 139,819
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,600
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #234 on: November 24, 2015, 08:48:19 »
All good points.  I've been privy (like many here) to bits and pieces but have no idea about the larger plan or even how those bits and pieces fit in it.  I can surmise but that can lead to false info and what not.

I think that Bogarts suggestion of a town hall is more along the lines of letting the troops know that stuff might happen and that there may or may not be some disruption and that they are being counted on to be flexible and professional.  Eevn just stating that they haven't received any orders or instructions but to be prepared should that happen.   It may not seem like much but even something that vague can put them in right mind set should something happen.

 :goodpost:

It's called a warning order and it's a proven way of doing business.

Lets leave the smoke and mirrors to the politicians.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 350,526
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,158
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #235 on: November 24, 2015, 09:06:43 »


It's fine to suggest a town hall, but then soldiers go home and tell their spouses, who tell their families, who post it on FB and suddenly the 'might happen' becomes ' is happening.'  And it's hard to turn off that tap once it starts going.

But that's exactly what happened.

There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #236 on: November 24, 2015, 09:09:06 »
But that's exactly what happened.
But now, because the official word isn't out yet, only tidbits, rumour, hearsay and RUMINT is getting back to the families and comment boards ;D

All joking aside, thanks, Strike, for showing an important part of the REST of the story explaining the dribbling flow of information outwards in some quarters.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 139,819
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,600
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #237 on: November 24, 2015, 09:18:43 »
But now, because the official word isn't out yet, only tidbits, rumour, hearsay and RUMINT is getting back to the families and comment boards ;D

All joking aside, thanks, Strike, for showing an important part of the REST of the story explaining the dribbling flow of information outwards in some quarters.

The media blackout deals with external communication from the department.  Internal communication is totally fine. 

Offline Strike

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 34,541
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,463
  • Welcome to the Dead Parrot's Society.
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #238 on: November 24, 2015, 09:23:59 »
The media blackout deals with external communication from the department.  Internal communication is totally fine.

Except that there are several departments involved and, even with a new government, there is probably still that hesitancy to share between agencies before the full go-ahead is given.
Stop assuming I'm a man!

Don't know how long I want to keep playing this game...

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 219,872
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,504
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #239 on: November 24, 2015, 12:00:32 »
gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

I first heard it, from my first father-in-law, in 1978.

Offline Good2Go

  • New Member
  • **
  • 460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 25
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #240 on: November 24, 2015, 12:48:16 »
I've been overseas for the past few weeks & I live in single quarters at CFB Kingston.  I don't return until Friday.

Can anyone tell me if Bldg C-46 is affected?  I hate surprises...  Many thanks!

Offline Blackadder1916

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 235,615
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,330
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #241 on: November 24, 2015, 12:52:59 »

, the troops are not gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

It's in the COD (a colloquial backform of disgruntled), so you're safe from the pedants.  It's an adjective - so while you may say "you are gruntled", it is improper to say "my girlfriend gruntled me last night".
Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.

Offline Chief Engineer

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 744,467
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,118
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #242 on: November 24, 2015, 14:33:13 »
I've been overseas for the past few weeks & I live in single quarters at CFB Kingston.  I don't return until Friday.

Can anyone tell me if Bldg C-46 is affected?  I hate surprises...  Many thanks!

The memo that is circulating online does not mention C-46.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

كافر

Offline Good2Go

  • New Member
  • **
  • 460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 25
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #243 on: November 24, 2015, 14:52:52 »
The memo that is circulating online does not mention C-46.

Thank you so much.  I am having an awful trip & hearing that I might return to a move pde was making a bad situation worse.

Any chance you could send me the link for the memo?

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #244 on: November 24, 2015, 16:43:40 »
It's official - they're still coming, but not as many as first planned by year end ....
Quote
The government will resettle only about 10,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year, or less than half the 25,000 promised by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau during the election campaign.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship officials revealed the shortfall on Tuesday, as they presented the government’s plan for bringing the Syrian refugees to Canada. The entire 25,000 won’t arrive in Canada until the end of February, the officials said. The effort will cost as much as $678 million over six years ....
This from the Info-machine:
Quote
The Government of Canada is taking immediate action to welcome 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada as quickly as possible, through a five-phase national plan. Canada can and will do more to help Syrian refugees who are desperately seeking safety, by offering them a new home.

The five phases are identifying Syrian refugees to come to Canada, selecting and processing Syrian refugees overseas, transportation to Canada, arrival and welcoming in Canada, and settlement and community integration. Protecting the safety, security, and health of Canadians and refugees is a key factor in guiding the Government of Canada’s actions throughout this initiative.

The government will identify all 25,000 refugees to come to Canada by December 31, 2015. Of those selected, the target is to have 10,000 Syrian refugees arrive in Canada by the end of this year, and the remainder to arrive by the end of February 2016.

We will ensure we are prepared to welcome these refugees properly in our communities, by continuing to work with provincial, territorial, municipal, and other partners. This timeframe will also allow for the completion of the immigration process overseas.

It is important that Canada respond and demonstrate clear action. To meet this commitment, the government will work with the governments of Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey, along with international and Canadian partners.

Canada will be working closely with the United Nations Refugee Agency (UNHCR) to identify registered Syrian refugees who can be resettled. Canada’s focus will be on identifying vulnerable refugees who are a lower security risk. Robust health and security screening will be completed overseas. This will include the collection of biographic information and biometric screening of all refugees, verified against databases.

The government also has several thousand applications in processing for privately sponsored refugees (PSRs) under way, and these will be included as part of the commitment. The majority of these will be finalized in the coming weeks. These refugees will be admitted into Canada, in either Montreal or Toronto, and then continue directly on to their destination community.

Resettling 25,000 refugees to Canada is a national effort that will require significant coordination and support. The Government of Canada is working with other orders of government, non-governmental organizations, partners and Canadians across the country to help ensure successful integration of Syrian refugees into their new host communities, where they will begin to build their new lives in Canada.

The government’s commitment to bringing in Syrian refugees will continue in 2016. Given the current initiative includes privately sponsored refugees, this will include taking in more government-assisted refugees (GARs) to reach a total target of 25,000 GARs.

Since the beginning of the conflict in Syria, Canada has contributed more than $800 million to support stabilization efforts, provide development assistance, contribute to humanitarian efforts, and enhance security ....
More in the Backgrounder here - infographic of five phases attached - all material also attached as PDF in case links above don't work.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 16:46:17 by milnews.ca »
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 162,280
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,172
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #245 on: November 24, 2015, 17:37:49 »
Glad to see they stretched the timeline.
Optio

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 219,872
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,504
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #246 on: November 24, 2015, 18:58:26 »
Yes, finally, because the logistical nightmare would have surpassed the security concerns.

I have recently been involved in the private sponsorship of a refugee family, from a much different area, and it takes a lot of effort from a bunch of people to do it right. Anything less risks setting the family up for failure.

It should not have taken this long for the government to listen to what everybody who had real experience in such things was telling it, or to reassure a good chunk of our population who had legitimate concerns that the security aspect was being taken seriously.

This did not have to get so many people worked up.

I am also concerned that Syrians have merely become fashionable for Liberals. There are many others elsewhere at least equally suffering and/or at real risk who seem to be invisible to them.

Offline Brad Sallows

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 91,610
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,364
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #247 on: November 24, 2015, 21:34:53 »
>Of those selected, the target is to have 10,000 Syrian refugees arrive in Canada by the end of this year, and the remainder to arrive by the end of February 2016.

Good.  The government will undoubtedly take a brief hit from the critics who take Trudeau to task for uttering so much as "good morning", but it will be much better than a never-ending series of interviews with refugees about the quality of their experience since being rushed into Canada to fit a campaign promise deadline.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

Offline Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 216,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,979
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #248 on: November 25, 2015, 04:20:00 »
Yes, finally, because the logistical nightmare would have surpassed the security concerns.

I have recently been involved in the private sponsorship of a refugee family, from a much different area, and it takes a lot of effort from a bunch of people to do it right. Anything less risks setting the family up for failure.

It should not have taken this long for the government to listen to what everybody who had real experience in such things was telling it, or to reassure a good chunk of our population who had legitimate concerns that the security aspect was being taken seriously.

This did not have to get so many people worked up.

I am also concerned that Syrians have merely become fashionable for Liberals. There are many others elsewhere at least equally suffering and/or at real risk who seem to be invisible to them.

Of course they did.  They had an election to win and a Natural Order to restore.   >:D
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

"If change isn’t allowed to be a process, it becomes an event." - Penny Mordaunt 10/10/2019

“Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards” ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Offline Technoviking

    DANCE TO THE TECHNOVIKING.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 188,361
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,079
  • Requiescat in Pace
    • Canadian ASL Open
Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #249 on: November 25, 2015, 05:46:57 »
I  am also concerned that Syrians have merely become fashionable for Liberals. There are many others elsewhere at least equally suffering and/or at real risk who seem to be invisible to them.
Amen. If you count IDPs the same as refugees, then you must also remember those in Afghanistan (anyone remember them anymore?), Colombia, Sudan, etc. The list goes on and on....
So, there I was....