Author Topic: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)  (Read 123460 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #200 on: November 23, 2015, 17:02:30 »
Myself and a bunch of others on course were just told today to be ready to move out by Wednesday. The weird thing is the refugees aren't even moving into our shacks. They're going elsewhere on the base. So the reason for us to move is silly.

I'm completely shocked by this  ::)
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #201 on: November 23, 2015, 17:07:21 »
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/gay-men-will-be-included-among-syrian-refugees-in-addition-to-women-children-families

Quote



The federal government will include gay men among the Syrian refugees it brings into Canada as part of a plan that puts the focus on accepting women, children and families.

The Citizen has learned that while the Liberal government, because of potential security concerns, will not accept lone males — at least during the first wave of migrants — this approach will come with an important caveat. The government is sensitive to the fact that gay men escaping violence in the region could be persecuted, so they will be permitted to come to Canada.

The government plans to make good on its election commitment to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by the end of December. The details of the ambitious plan will be announced Tuesday.

In a statement Monday, NDP Leader Tom Mulcair said the government needs to show more transparency about which refugees are allowed in and which are excluded.

“While security concerns remain of vital importance, will a young man, who lost both parents, be excluded from the refugee program?” Mulcair asked in his statement.

“Will a gay man who is escaping persecution be excluded? Will a widower who is fleeing Daesh (another name for the Islamic States) after having seen his family killed be excluded? This is not the Canadian way.”

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Minister John McCallum has promised to release details of the refugee plan Tuesday.


Who wants to bet all of the single males self-identify as being gay  ;D

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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #202 on: November 23, 2015, 17:10:41 »
Some people were told last Friday they had a week to move out. Myself and a bunch of others on course were just told today to be ready to move out by Wednesday. The weird thing is the refugees aren't even moving into our shacks. They're going elsewhere on the base. So the reason for us to move is silly. No clue either where we'll be moved to. It's very frustrating as the course I'm on is stressful enough with tests every few days. Now having to deal with packing all my things up on top it all is not fun.

No doubt even more stressful than being relocated to a strange country because your government was dropping barrel bombs on you and your children.

Like as not, you are being moved as part of an effort to consolidate the housing plan so that it makes sense, and frees up space for those annoying refugee families.
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Offline thejadepixie

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #203 on: November 23, 2015, 17:23:16 »
As I stated in my original post, the refugees are not moving into our shacks. Instead they're shuffling everyone around on base from one building to another. The people who are giving up their shacks to the refugees are taking over our building, which is full of people(approx 130-150) currently on course. Our staff opposes the idea of moving us and are trying to fight the decision as it's completely unnecessary.

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #204 on: November 23, 2015, 17:30:18 »
As I stated in my original post, the refugees are not moving into our shacks. Instead they're shuffling everyone around on base from one building to another. The people who are giving up their shacks to the refugees are taking over our building, which is full of people(approx 130-150) currently on course. Our staff opposes the idea of moving us and are trying to fight the decision as it's completely unnecessary.


Just so you know, that whooshing sound was this going right over your head:

Quote
No doubt even more stressful than being relocated to a strange country because your government was dropping barrel bombs on you and your children.

And as I said, and you have confirmed, you are being relocated as part of plan to rationalise the allocation of available space.

Quote
Like as not, you are being moved as part of an effort to consolidate the housing plan so that it makes sense, and frees up space for those annoying refugee families.

You do realise that you may be asked, in the course of your career, to occasionally sacrifice your own comfort and convenience in the process of achieving an assigned mission or task, right?

Never mind.  Better get back to your stressful studying.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #205 on: November 23, 2015, 17:31:11 »
I really love how everyone is patting themselves on their back over the fact that we have housed refugees on military installations in the past, in some cases with little warning.  A nice feel good feeling.  What do we hear of the condition of those facilities after the refugees have left?  Very little.  Is the cost of repairs or demolition of those facilities taken into account by the people advocating housing these refugees, or is it just a afterthought that DND/CAF must make up after all is said and done?

There's no doubt about it the barracks will be trashed and require renovations afterwards.
. . .

What makes anyone think that temporary accommodations (military owned or otherwise) provided for these refugees will be damaged by them?  While my personal experience with a similar operation (OP MAGNET II) was limited to the Southeast Asian boat people who were housed  at Griesbach, I don't think that the situation would have been much different at the other locations.  The accommodations (which in Griesbach were the barrack blocks that, with the exception of a very few JRs who worked and lived down there, were primarily used as temporary shacks for pers on course at CABC or for militia during the summer) were not "handed over" to the refugees to have free run of the place.  We still managed the facilities and there were staff on duty 24 hours a day.  While the operation lasted over the space of several months, individual refugees (or families) did not spend the entire time at these locations.  After arrival in Canada (Edmonton was one of the APODs) the refuges were moved to their accommodations for the processing.  While I don't have any official stats on how long the average stay was, I would guesstimate about one month was the maximum before the new arrival moved on.  There was no hard and fast rule, it all depended on how quickly arrangements could be made (usually through a civilian non-profit or church group) to resettle them somewhere in Canada.  Quite a few settled in Edmonton, and, a few years later when I was posted back there, much enjoyed the Vietnamese restaurant scene.  Even "re-met" one owner who recognized me from his time at Griesbach.

As for the condition of the barracks following their use by the refugees, probably no worse than if they had been temporarily occupied by a battalion of soldiers for several months.
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Offline JesseWZ

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #206 on: November 23, 2015, 17:41:09 »
As I stated in my original post, the refugees are not moving into our shacks. Instead they're shuffling everyone around on base from one building to another. The people who are giving up their shacks to the refugees are taking over our building, which is full of people(approx 130-150) currently on course. Our staff opposes the idea of moving us and are trying to fight the decision as it's completely unnecessary.

And persons from my unit are being asked to give up Christmas with their families in order to deploy on short notice for this Domestic Op. Whether they agree with the decision to bring them or not, they still will support the government mandate and carry it out. That's what being in the Canadian Forces is all about. We do the bidding of the government, not the other way around.

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« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 17:45:06 by JesseWZ »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #207 on: November 23, 2015, 17:50:18 »
In the past, military bases have been used to house newcomers to Canada. In 1999, 5,000 refugees from Kosovo were divided between two military bases: CFB Greenwood in Nova Scotia and CFB Trenton in Ontario.
Despite short notice, the plan was executed successfully, according to retired Brig.-Gen. Gaston Cloutier, who was on the Trenton base at the time.
“It was hard work, but it was done properly,” he told CTV’s Power Play last month.

Even the most basic internet search would have helped with accuracy in reporting.   ::)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #208 on: November 23, 2015, 18:16:30 »


Welcome to the club where Service before Self is the mantra. If you don't like it, leave now. It will save your section from your belly-aching later.

In all fairness Sarahs staff of NCOs and Officers are apparently not on board with playing shacks hot potato either.  I'm guessing they feel the move can be accomplished with less people being effected.
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #209 on: November 23, 2015, 18:32:43 »
In all fairness Sarahs staff of NCOs and Officers are apparently not on board with playing shacks hot potato either.  I'm guessing they feel the move can be accomplished with less people being effected.

Granted...and moot.  I doubt that they are aware of the myriad factors that go into establishing and maintaining a base housing plan when you feed in an additional and significant demand with little notice.  I will also give them the benefit of the doubt, which is that they do not know the higher commander's intent, vice simply paying it no heed.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #210 on: November 23, 2015, 18:49:54 »
Granted...and moot.  I doubt that they are aware of the myriad factors that go into establishing and maintaining a base housing plan when you feed in an additional and significant demand with little notice.  I will also give them the benefit of the doubt, which is that they do not know the higher commander's intent, vice simply paying it no heed.

 >:D

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #211 on: November 23, 2015, 18:56:03 »
As for the condition of the barracks following their use by the refugees, probably no worse than if they had been temporarily occupied by a battalion of soldiers for several months.

Only if the Snr NCO Corps has dropped to such low levels of management and leadership would such a statement be true.
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Offline ringo

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #212 on: November 23, 2015, 19:50:52 »
How many are moving into Trudeau's neighbourhood?

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #213 on: November 23, 2015, 21:22:46 »
How many are moving into Trudeau's neighbourhood?

Probably more than in yours....

Quote
Papineau is a federal electoral district in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, that has been represented in the House of Commons of Canada from 1948 to 1988 and since 2004. Its population in 2006 was 101,019. Justin Trudeau, who is currently Prime Minister of Canada and Leader of the Liberal Party, has represented the riding since the 2008 federal election.

The name of the riding comes from a street in the Villeray neighbourhood, named after Joseph Papineau.

At nine square kilometres, it covers the smallest area of any federal riding in Canada. Linguistically, 45% of residents list French as their mother tongue, 8% list English, and 47% list neither English nor French, with large groups speaking Spanish, Italian, Greek and Arabic. The total immigrant population is 40 per cent.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Strike

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #214 on: November 23, 2015, 21:29:54 »
How many are moving into Trudeau's neighbourhood?

Oh, about 25,000. He is the PM and therefore all of Canada could be considered is his 'hood.
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Offline chevalnoir

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #215 on: November 23, 2015, 21:44:21 »
I've spent more time in the Kingston shacks than I care to remember, and only two things come to mind:
-Most of the shacks are well past the point where a few thousand refugees, or a herd of rampaging buffaloes for that matter, could inflict significant additional damage
-I've never yet been there for more than a month without at least one change of quarters to make someone's re-organization brainchild come true. If you're lucky, you just move rooms between adjacent buildings and you have a few days notice. If you're unlucky, you move to the other side of the base, and you have maybe two hours notice. One course involved 5 moves for a 4 1/2 month course. And yes, we had tests every few days too. It sucks. But it's part of living in the shacks, at least in Kingston. Only without refugees involved, no one cares.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #216 on: November 23, 2015, 21:57:29 »
Oh, about 25,000. He is the PM and therefore all of Canada could be considered is his 'hood.

Zing!
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #217 on: November 23, 2015, 22:08:09 »
This from CBC.ca - highlights mine....
The federal government's much-anticipated Syrian refugee plan will limit those accepted into Canada to women, children and families only, CBC News has learned.

Sources tell CBC News that to deal with some ongoing concerns around security, unaccompanied men seeking asylum will not be part of the program.

The details of the plan will be announced Tuesday, but already Canadian officials have been working on the ground to process people.

In the last six weeks alone, Canadian authorities have managed to screen about 100 people a day in Lebanon to help the government reach its ambitious of target of getting 25,000 Syrian refugees here by the end of the year.

These are on top of the refugees being processed by the United Nations Refugee Agency.

Perhaps these are the details that need to be pushed out loud and clear to appease Joe and Jane Concerned Taxpayer who are concerned about "who" is actually coming after the realities being experienced in Europe, for example, have raised valid concerns.

If the details in the CBC news article are true, it would be beneficial if they were made part of a more formal announcement (which may have happened and I missed it?).
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Offline MCG

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #218 on: November 23, 2015, 22:21:30 »
What makes anyone think that temporary accommodations (military owned or otherwise) provided for these refugees will be damaged by them? 
Bigotry (or prejudice) makes it easy to prejudge any situation with absolute certainty when one party can be referred as "these people."
 

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #219 on: November 23, 2015, 22:33:46 »
>Soldiers and military personnel at a Kingston, Ont. base are being asked to clear their barracks

That doesn't quite have the ring of truth.

Notwithstanding my own whinging about facets of the undertaking, has the Statement of Defence Ethics changed or is it still:
1. Respect the Dignity of All Persons
2. Serve Canada before Self
3. Obey and Support Lawful Authority

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #220 on: November 23, 2015, 23:06:48 »
"What a f$$kin' week!" - me, every Monday at about 1130hrs.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #221 on: November 23, 2015, 23:11:41 »
Anyone who's  been in uniform has gotten those change rooms/change buildings orders where someone is panicking that the world will end if you don't move in the next two hours.   Naturally people will ***** about it and then move cause really at the end of the day it's just dragging some kit around.

The thing with this I think is the bad optics to the public.  They don't see  someone moving their crap across a street to a new building they read about Canadian soldiers being evicted from where they are living and given 3 days notice.  I'm not a smart dude but even I could for see the bad optics of that without putting  out some kind of PR statement.   
The Cf is crazy about social media and how many hits stuff get in twitter and Facebook,  it's like they are shooting  themselves in the foot with this.  People  (civilians)  are pretty pissed off.  We could have mitigated this with more information.

When the refugees come I hope they tell everyone the horror stories of what they seen and have been through,  maybe the government will be more inclined to increase our presence there.
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #222 on: November 23, 2015, 23:16:16 »
I'm not a smart dude but even I could for see the bad optics of that .....
Careful, you could end up getting punted into the Public Affairs world.  ;D


Oh...and you know I think you're a pretty smart dude.   ;)

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #223 on: November 24, 2015, 05:45:47 »
The "story," DND's side of the story, anyway, is starting to come our ... piecemeal.

I think everyone should have anticipated the media's reaction (and the ill-informed/uninformed service members' reactions, too) to the rumours that people were going to be evicted. I think the government PR machine missed a beat here ... perhaps because it is so very, very new. Perhaps they thought that the overwhelming majority of Canadians would just assume that the CF could do this (whatever "this" is) without any fuss or bother, but the mainstream media found a "story;" it was there, for the looking, on social media I'm told (I, apparently, don't subscribe to the right "sources," or so an acquaintance who works in the media tells me.) It appears that DND is now "scrambling" to set the record straight when I think the government, the political centre, would have wished for an active* response to the minister's statement that refugees would be held on military bases; maybe that was wishful thinking on the government's part ...

The mainstream media is not anti-Liberal (yet) or anti-refugee (yet). Reporters, however, want their story to be "above the fold" or they want their 30 seconds of "on the air" time and so they look for cracks in any and all programmes and then they try to drive wedges into those cracks by quoting poorly sourced rumours (and, in fairness, they identify them as such) and then wait for more. It;'s a good tactic and, in this case, it worked.


____
* As opposed to reactive
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #224 on: November 24, 2015, 05:56:22 »
The "story," DND's side of the story, anyway, is starting to come our ... piecemeal.

I think everyone should have anticipated the media's reaction (and the ill-informed/uninformed service members' reactions, too) to the rumours that people were going to be evicted. I think the government PR machine missed a beat here ... perhaps because it is so very, very new. Perhaps they thought that the overwhelming majority of Canadians would just assume that the CF could do this (whatever "this" is) without any fuss or bother, but the mainstream media found a "story;" it was there, for the looking, on social media I'm told (I, apparently, don't subscribe to the right "sources," or so an acquaintance who works in the media tells me.) It appears that DND is now "scrambling" to set the record straight when I think the government, the political centre, would have wished for an active* response to the minister's statement that refugees would be held on military bases; maybe that was wishful thinking on the government's part ...

The mainstream media is not anti-Liberal (yet) or anti-refugee (yet). Reporters, however, want their story to be "above the fold" or they want their 30 seconds of "on the air" time and so they look for cracks in any and all programmes and then they try to drive wedges into those cracks by quoting poorly sourced rumours (and, in fairness, they identify them as such) and then wait for more. It;'s a good tactic and, in this case, it worked.


____
* As opposed to reactive

It was the number one trending news story on my facebook yesterday. 

The optics of this are terrible.  Especially with a 600 bed Kingston Pen sitting empty on the Kingston waterfront.