Author Topic: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)  (Read 636318 times)

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Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2450 on: January 15, 2019, 12:26:51 »
Eurofighter is $136M CAD per aircraft. Sounds like a great deal.... :facepalm:

Not being Lockheed or Boeing = Priceless

Offline Dimsum

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2451 on: January 15, 2019, 18:34:42 »
Not being Lockheed or Boeing = Priceless

Not if major repairs end up needing to be done in Europe.  That was one of the major contract issues with the Aussies when they got the Tiger ARH.  I mean there were other issues too, hence why they're trying to replace them 20 years after they bought them.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2452 on: January 23, 2019, 16:20:44 »
Got to keep those Canadian jobs as long as possible--until we get Bombardier jobs at silly price for Eurofighter?

Quote
Canada to keep paying for F-35 development during fighter-jet competition

A senior official at the Department of National Defence says Canada will remain a member of the F-35 stealth fighter program until the government knows which jet it plans to buy to replace Canada’s aging CF-18s.

That means Canada will continue to pay tens of millions of dollars over the next couple of years to help pay for development of the fighter jet even though it may end up buying something else.

DND’s head of procurement, Patrick Finn, says staying on as one of nine partner countries makes sense so Canada can compete for billions of dollars in contracts associated with the F-35...

The Trudeau Liberals are scheduled to launch a competition to pick a new fighter jet this spring, a winner won’t be identified for several more years [supposedly 2022 for contract award!!!].

Canada has so far invested roughly half-a-billion dollars in the F-35 over the past 20 years, even as successive federal governments have wrestled with whether to buy the plane or not.
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/canada-to-keep-paying-for-f-35-development-during-fighter-jet-competition

Mark
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Offline HB_Pencil

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2453 on: January 24, 2019, 01:02:07 »
Got to keep those Canadian jobs as long as possible--until we get Bombardier jobs at silly price for Eurofighter?

Mark
Ottawa

No, this is potentially a huge development in the project... there was a lot of major uncertainty going on, and this may be the first piece of good news in awhile.

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2454 on: January 30, 2019, 16:13:58 »
Got to keep those Canadian jobs as long as possible--until we get Bombardier jobs at silly price for Eurofighter?
Quote
Canada to keep paying for F-35 development during fighter-jet competition

A senior official at the Department of National Defence says Canada will remain a member of the F-35 stealth fighter program until the government knows which jet it plans to buy to replace Canada’s aging CF-18s.  ...
Taking this story a step further here ...
Quote
Canada is being forced to shoulder a bigger share of the costs of developing F-35 fighter jets even though it has not decided whether it will actually buy any.

Canada is one of nine partner countries in the F-35 project, each of which is required to cover a portion of the stealth fighter's multibillion-dollar development costs to stay at the table.

Each country pays based on the number of F-35s it's expecting to buy. Canada has pitched in more than half-a-billion dollars over the last 20 years, including $54 million last year.

But that amount was based on the Stephen Harper government's plan to buy 65 new fighter jets to replace Canada's aging CF-18s, which the Trudeau government has since officially increased to 88.

Even though Canada has not committed that those 88 jets will be F-35s, the Department of National Defence says that change means it will have to pay more to remain a partner — including about $72 million this year.

"Canada's costs under the F-35 (partnership agreement) are based on an intended fleet size," Defence Department spokeswoman Ashley Lemire said in an email.

"Canada changed its fleet size within the F-35 (agreement) from 65 to 88 aircraft to align with government decisions on the size of the intended permanent fighter fleet to be acquired through competition and the payment increased accordingly." ...
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2455 on: January 30, 2019, 17:04:36 »
LOL the irony....

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2456 on: January 30, 2019, 18:55:16 »

Taking this story a step further here ...

Don't worry, the Trudeau spin doctors will be along in just a moment to make it sound like 'everything's going to be alright.' 

:facepalm:

“You know, that might be the answer – to act boastfully about something we ought to be ashamed of. That’s a trick that never seems to fail.”

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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2457 on: January 30, 2019, 23:39:38 »
The original F-35 procurement numbers I saw had Canada ordering 80, so not that much of a difference. 65 was just the smallest number that could be gotten away with. I'm sure if our NORAD obligation was less than 36 our "order" would have been less than 65 as well

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2458 on: February 02, 2019, 11:37:44 »
Meanwhile Finland (population 5.5 million, much less geography than Canada) is planning to buy 64 new fighters--from the usual suspects:

Quote
Industry bids are in for Finland’s $13 billion fighter race

Finland’s HX-FP multirole fighter replacement program has advanced to the next stage as five aircraft manufacturers have tendered their proposals to the Finnish Defence Forces’ (FDF) Logistics Command office. The proposals include preliminary quotations on cost.

The air force plans to retire its fleet of F/A-18 C/D Hornet jets between 2025 and 2029 [emphasis added, roughly RCAF time frame too]. The HX-FP carries an estimated price tag of €11.4 billion, a cost that includes life cycle service and maintenance overheads on a fleet of 64 multirole aircraft.

The government received proposals from four countries, including the United States, Sweden, France and Britain.

The aircraft types covered in the proposals are Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-35, France’s Dassault Rafale, the British-made Eurofighter and the Swedish Saab Gripen. The Saab proposal includes both the single-seat Gripen E and the dual-seat Gripen F versions.

Request for Quotation (RFQ) documents were dispatched by the Logistics Command to the governments of France, the United States, Britain and Sweden in April 2018. The petitions were then forwarded to the five participating manufacturers. The deadline for acceptance of responses was Jan. 31, 2019.

The proposals received by the Logistics Command include information pertaining to technical systems requirements for operating a fleet of 64 aircraft, as well as support documentation dealing with training systems, essential maintenance tools, testing equipment, spare parts, weapons systems and sensors...

The proposal presented by Saab sets out the basis for a broad, long-term industrial cooperation between Finland and Sweden framed around any deal. The proposal covers the production of military aircraft in Finland. It also includes the transfer of maintenance, repair and overhaul capabilities to local industry in Finland. Moreover, Saab is proposing to establish a Gripen sustainment and development center in Finland.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/02/01/industry-bids-are-in-for-finlands-13-billion-fighter-race/

Both Saab and Airbus to offer nice bribes for Bombardier in our competition?

Mark
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Online Hamish Seggie

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2459 on: February 02, 2019, 11:42:05 »
Meanwhile in Canada the GoC is kicking the effing can down the road. 🤦‍♂️
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2460 on: February 02, 2019, 15:31:40 »
Meanwhile in Canada the GoC is kicking the effing can down the road. 🤦‍♂️

Because that's what they always do.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2461 on: February 02, 2019, 16:31:10 »
Meanwhile in Canada the GoC is kicking the effing can down the road. 🤦‍♂️

Because we "can".  Finland is next to...well, you know.  They probably have defence as a pretty high priority given geography and history.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2462 on: February 02, 2019, 17:01:22 »
Dimsum:

Quote
Because we "can".  Finland is next to...well, you know.

Meanwhile we have that pesky 36-fighter commitment to NORAD vs an ever-improving Russkie bombers (Tu-95, Tu-160, maybe sometime a stealth bomber) and ALCM threat--and what if those bombers can be escorted by refuelled fighters, e.g. MiG-31, later Su-57?

Quote
NORAD to Face Escorted Cruise Missile-Carrying Russian Bombers?
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2016/04/11/mark-collins-norad-to-face-escorted-cruise-missile-carrying-russian-bombers/

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Mark
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2463 on: February 02, 2019, 19:26:47 »
Dimsum:

Meanwhile we have that pesky 36-fighter commitment to NORAD vs an ever-improving Russkie bombers (Tu-95, Tu-160, maybe sometime a stealth bomber) and ALCM threat--and what if those bombers can be escorted by refuelled fighters, e.g. MiG-31, later Su-57?

Further links to other posts within the main post no longer work, but do if you cut and past the title into the search box at upper right.

Mark
Ottawa

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why we need a robust fighter capability, but the Canadian public doesn't b/c of reasons we've gone into in multiple discussions.  I'm just saying that the Finns share a border with Russia and have been invaded before by them during WWII, so they know that they need a decent military.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2464 on: February 02, 2019, 22:01:48 »
Fly in front of the with special containers dispensing Frozen Chickens  8)

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2465 on: February 04, 2019, 10:37:12 »
Fly in front of the with special containers dispensing Frozen Chickens  8)

Or 'Trudeau Parkas'. They could actually use them in Scandinavia...  :)
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