Author Topic: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)  (Read 735216 times)

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2150 on: February 15, 2018, 16:39:29 »
Apparently Boeing still in--might upgraded Super Hornet help chances?

Quote
Boeing stays in race to supply Canada with fighter jets: sources
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-boeing-fighterjets/boeing-stays-in-race-to-supply-canada-with-fighter-jets-sources-idUSKCN1FZ2M9

Mark
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Offline RaceAddict

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2151 on: February 16, 2018, 10:15:03 »
Dorsal CFTs are hideous.  :not-again:

Offline Thucydides

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2152 on: February 16, 2018, 17:32:42 »
But that is the only place to put them on the next blocks of F-35s.   ;)
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2153 on: February 16, 2018, 17:39:20 »
Dorsal CFTs are hideous.  :not-again:

I'm sure those engineers think of what looks best as the primary focus for stuff like that, instead of things like "aerodynamics" or "increased fuel capacity".
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Canuck_55555

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what fighter will Canada go with?
« Reply #2154 on: February 19, 2018, 15:14:26 »
I'm thinking Canada may go with European fighters (Rafale, Gripen, Typhoon) but there is a chance we may go with the American made jets (F-35, F-16 Viper, Super Hornet)
What are your thoughts on the topic?

Offline George Wallace

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Re: what fighter will Canada go with?
« Reply #2155 on: February 19, 2018, 15:21:02 »
We have a very long thread on just this discussion. 

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: what fighter will Canada go with?
« Reply #2156 on: February 19, 2018, 18:07:47 »
I'm thinking Canada may go with European fighters (Rafale, Gripen, Typhoon) but there is a chance we may go with the American made jets (F-35, F-16 Viper, Super Hornet)
What are your thoughts on the topic?

Avro Arrow 2 or weaponized Sr71
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Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: what fighter will Canada go with?
« Reply #2157 on: February 19, 2018, 19:09:46 »
Avro Arrow 2 or weaponized Sr71

Super Sopwith Camel?

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2158 on: February 19, 2018, 19:44:42 »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline MCG

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2159 on: February 19, 2018, 21:33:41 »
Mosquito II.

angus555

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2160 on: February 19, 2018, 21:36:04 »

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: what fighter will Canada go with?
« Reply #2161 on: February 20, 2018, 00:36:43 »
Avro Arrow 2 or weaponized Sr71


Sopwith Camel for me. Even dogs can fly those....
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2162 on: February 20, 2018, 08:56:00 »

angus555

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2163 on: February 20, 2018, 10:34:27 »
That's not a Kite. This is a Kite!

I guess we'll just have to wait 5 years to see which kite wins the procurement competition.

I'm not going to get into a discussion about 4th vs. 5th gen kites. There has already been lengthy debate here.  ;D

Offline RaceAddict

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2164 on: February 20, 2018, 11:41:20 »
Who's currently offloading their old kites to buy new kites?

Offline CBH99

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2165 on: February 20, 2018, 16:25:16 »
Everybody, but in this case I'm guessing your thinking of the Australians?   ;)
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Offline YZT580

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2166 on: February 20, 2018, 18:40:47 »
Good question.  by the time this competition gets out the door there should be some mid-life F35's on the market.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2167 on: February 22, 2018, 15:09:03 »
All five possibilities still in RCAF fighter farce:

Quote
Boeing applies to stay in race to supply Canada with fighter jets despite trade dispute
Deal to replace Canada's fighter jets worth up to $19B

Boeing Co, which is locked in a trade dispute with the Canadian government, has applied to stay in the race to supply Canada with 88 new fighter jets, the government said on Thursday.
 
Boeing is one of five potential contenders to supply the jets, including U.S. rival Lockheed Martin Corp.
 
Canada is due to release the exact specifications for the jets next year and officials say the deal is worth between $15
billion and $19 billion.

    U.S. trade agency rejected Bombardier duties as CSeries sales did not hurt Boeing

    Arrival of used Aussie fighters pushed back to summer 2019 or later

Reuters revealed last week that the U.S. aerospace giant, which angered Canada by launching a trade challenge against planemaker Bombardier Inc, would remain in the race.
 
None of the potential contenders is obliged to put forward their jets in the competition.
 
The government said the firms eligible to take part are:

    Lockheed-Martin, which makes the F-35 stealth fighter
    Boeing, which makes the F-18 Super Hornet
    Airbus, which makes the Eurofighter
    Saab AB, which makes the Gripen
    Dassault Aviation, which makes the Rafale
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing-eligable-fighter-jet-bid-1.4547265

Mark
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Offline RaceAddict

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2168 on: February 24, 2018, 11:47:00 »
Another ECS failure in a Growler this time:

Quote
A U.S. Navy EA-18G Growler recently made it back to base after suffering a terrifying mid-air mishap, which left its two-person crew flying blind and frostbitten after the aircraft’s environment control system failed, in part thanks to a pair of high-tech wrist watches.  The incident occurred just over a year after the canopy on another one of the electronic warfare planes exploded in a bizarre over-pressurization incident and as the service continues to struggle to find exactly what’s causing persistent reports of “hypoxia-like” symptoms across the F/A-18 Hornet, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, and Growler fleets.

Defense News was first to report this new incident, which occurred approximately 60 miles south of Seattle, Washington. The EA-18G, assigned to Air Test and Evaluation Squadron Nine (VX-9), was flying at approximately 25,000 feet on a mission from Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, between Seattle and Vancouver BC, when the cockpit temperature plummeted to -30 degrees Fahrenheit.

The broken environmental control system (ECS) also let in a fine mist of liquid, which then froze, coating the inside of the canopy and vital flight instruments in an opaque sheen of ice. The ECS consists of a number of sub-components that are supposed to work together to manage oxygen flow to the crew, as well as cockpit pressure and temperature.

Despite using up all of their emergency oxygen supply, the crew was able to wend its way its way back to Naval Air Station Whidbey Island with help from air traffic controllers on the ground and their smart watches. In July 2017, Navy Hornet, Super Hornet, and Growler pilots each got a $450 Garmin Fenix 3 wristwatch, which can measure air pressure and altitude and display an individual’s course heading.

The service issued the watches in order to provide a backup alert mechanism in case the ECS' on-board oxygen generation system, or OBOGS, malfunctioned and cockpit pressure dropped to unsafe levels and the aircraft's built-in safety mechanisms and warning systems also failed. The Navy had not publicly stated that it could serve as a improvised navigational aid in an emergency.

Complete article: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18762/freezing-navy-ea-18g-crew-in-ice-filled-cockpit-navigated-home-using-their-smart-watches

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2169 on: February 24, 2018, 12:58:16 »
What?!?  :o  You mean to say that Breitling didn’t save the day?


 ;D

Offline Quirky

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2170 on: February 24, 2018, 18:57:29 »
with a frozen canopy i'd expect them to pop the hatch and fly AV style.


Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2171 on: February 28, 2018, 11:41:21 »
More on USN's semi-Super Super Hornet (China much in mind):

Quote
Super Hornets and Growlers to get bigger fuel tanks

The Navy is set to equip its Super Hornet and Growler fleet with bigger fuel tanks in the coming years, a development that will allow the jets to fly farther and provide additional capability in a changing world.

Boeing will receive $219.6 million for work on the F/A-18 E/F variants, as well as the EA-18G, according to a Pentagon announcement earlier this month.

The new conformal fuel tanks can hold 515 gallons of fuel in a low-drag configuration, an increase from the current tank’s 480-gallon capacity, according to officials with Naval Air Systems Command, or NAVAIR.

While existing fuel tanks are mounted under the wing, the new tanks will sit on top of the wing, on either side of the aircraft dorsal, according to NAVAIR.

In a conformal array, the fuel tanks hug the profile of the jet, increasing aerodynamics while freeing up space below the wings for weapons.

Super Hornets will start coming off the production line with the new tanks in FY2021, while upgrades of existing jets will commence in FY2023, according to NAVAIR.

Although new fuel tanks on a jet may seem like an innocuous development, the move reflects the military’s renewed focus on preparing for conventional warfare, and the fact that it may need to battle a rival military in the not-too-distant future.

Equipping the Super Hornet and Growler with larger fuel tanks means the carriers they launch off can float farther out at sea, out of range of increasingly formidable weapons systems in the hands of potential rival forces.

The Navy’s ability to steam or fly where it pleases has gone largely unchallenged in recent decades.

But these days, the ascendant Chinese military has developed a so-called “carrier killer” missile, and the Russian forces have been rebuilt since the country’s post-Cold War nadir.

Long-range weapons, anti-ship missiles and other technologies are proliferating around the globe, challenging the international order that is predicated on U.S. military might.

Such developments led to a recently released National Defense Strategy that identifies “great power competitors” as the major challenge facing the Pentagon...
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/02/27/super-hornets-and-growlers-to-get-bigger-fuel-tanks/

Mark
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2172 on: March 03, 2018, 11:45:26 »
Such a capability--if actually developed--would seem very useful for RCAF in NORAD mission:

Quote
This Upgrade Will Make the Super Hornet Deadlier Than Ever

In the Navy’s recent budget request, the Navy finally funded the design an acquisition of conformal fuel tanks for the Super Hornet. With the potential to extend the range of the Hornet with a low drag external fuel tank, the tanks can either expand the range of a Super Hornet or free up two high capacity weapons stations by replacing the two external tanks currently used on almost every flight. One option would help to restore a long-range interception role that has been missing from the Navy since the retirement of the Tomcat in the 2000s. With four capacity weapons stations available on the Super Hornet, the SM-6 Dual I SAM could be modified to serve as a long-range air to air missile, much like the Standard SM-1 was modified to serve as an anti-radiation during the Vietnam War.

Since the retirement of the Tomcat from carrier decks in 2006, the Navy has lacked an interceptor with the ability to engage targets capable of carrying long-range cruise missiles. With the death of the Soviet Naval Bomber Force at the end of the Cold War, there has not been a country capable of operating more than a handful of cruise missile carrying bombers. In the past few years, the threat scope has changed dramatically, as Soviet operations have expanded, and the Chinese bomber force has been modernized with the introduction of the Badger H-6K. The Navy does not have an interceptor capable of shooting the archer before he shoots his arrows. A Super Hornet with three external fuel tanks and a full air intercept load of 6 AIM-120D has rather limited effective combat radius of around 400 miles. As a result, the maximum engagement range of the Super Hornet/AIM-120D combination less than Tomcat/Phoenix combination from the 1990s.

The Navy currently has two products in development that can address this new long-range cruise missile threat: The Block III Super Hornet with conformal fuel tanks and the SM-6 Dual II missile. The Block III Super Hornet in development will include conformal fuel tanks that will allow the Block III Hornet to have an increased combat radius while freeing up the high capacity weapons stations 4 and 8. A Block III Hornet with the conformal fuel tanks will be able to carry 4 SM-6 Dual II missiles and 6 AIM-120D missiles along with a single external fuel tank on weapons station 6 to a combat radius of 510 miles.

The SM-6 Dual II missile currently in development by the Navy is capable of engaging both air and surface targets out to a range of 130 miles when launched from the surface. The missile is about 15 feet in length and 1,800 pounds, and so can be accommodated on four weapons stations of the Super Hornet, weapons stations 3, 4, 8, and 9. In a Block II Super Hornet, weapons stations 4, 6, and 8 are normally occupied by external fuel tanks, but on a Block III Hornet, with weapons stations 4 and 8 freed, an SM-6 can be carried on the 4 stations mentioned earlier.

The process of qualifying the SM-6 Dual I to be carried on a Super Hornet should not be needlessly complex...
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/upgrade-will-make-the-super-hornet-deadlier-ever-24699

Mark
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2173 on: March 03, 2018, 16:25:43 »
Certifyinf any kind of new weapon on a platform is a complex task.  It's a lot more than "does it fit".

Offline Cdn Blackshirt

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2174 on: March 03, 2018, 16:53:41 »
The article seems to paint the new missile as a Super Hornet attribute, but if the Navy adopts it, would they not also integrate it into the F-35?
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