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The Parade Square => Military Administration => Release, Retirement & SCAN => Topic started by: dogger1936 on January 14, 2011, 21:19:04

Title: Medical Release ( merged )
Post by: dogger1936 on January 14, 2011, 21:19:04
Hey folks.

I am currently being "sent away" to a static position of my choice to basically start the process of getting out. While it was once something  I was really trying to avoid; I've decided it is both best for the CF and my family and I. I will be medically released if all goes well with 14 years in, 5 of those being a Sgt making around 61,000 a year.

Family planning is my biggest concern. Looking at the big picture in the future along with my wife will hopefully put us in a secure position to raise our children and provide the best life we can for them IRT my disability and limitations. Working after release doesn't seem to be an option for me, and honestly my wife has a full time job looking after her three kids unfortunately (one being myself).

I've checked over this board a million times and have spent at least two hours tonight (on a Friday non the less!) searching out the boards here as well as VAC/DND sites to find answers; to which most were broken links or outdated information.

I'm hoping some of you SME's and people who have a working brain (unlike myself) can help me out with a few questions. While I realise there is no substitute for a scan brief or face to face with a release clerk I have not been able to do this as of yet. And am currently trying to plan as adults with my wife.

Here are a few:

1. released not able to work money is a concern. What would my military pension be every month for a 5 year Sgt making around 61,000 a year?

2. Can someone explain Indexed to me? I keep seeing indexted and believe it mean every year up till my 20 year mark it will increase by 2% annually? leaving me at 20 years with my full pension  I would have received?

3. I keep hearing about VAC not allowing my pay to drop below a certain point if  I cannot work. Can someone verify that?

4. I read somewhere in which I cannot find the reference that if your disabled 48% your children will receive free university. Is this true? And if so is it a combination of injuries which add up to 48% (i.e PTSD 30 % other injuries 18% for example only?)

If the answers to any of these questions are present on the board I apologise, however I believe I have done a detailed search.

To state the obvious I was injured under the new veterans charter in Afghanistan, if there is any confusion.

I thank you in advance for helping my family  and myself who honestly is beginning to feel I can't aid myself most times.

All the best.
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: the 48th regulator on January 14, 2011, 21:31:11
Crikey Dogger,

I wish you asked these questions earlier today... :)

When I get to work Monday, at the IPSC, I will see if I can get some answers for you.

dileas

tess
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: mariomike on January 14, 2011, 21:51:10
2. Can someone explain Indexed to me? I keep seeing indexted and believe it mean every year up till my 20 year mark it will increase by 2% annually? leaving me at 20 years with my full pension  I would have received?

"Indexing (Inflation Protection)":
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hr-rh/bp-rasp/pensions/pensionfacts-infopensions/indexing-indexation-eng.asp
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hr-rh/bp-rasp/pensions/faq-eng.asp
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: medicineman on January 14, 2011, 22:03:40
To find out what your CF Pension would be, talk to a Release Clerk - they can sit down and do your pension forecast for you, and give you info on other release entitlements.

MM
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: SGT-RMSCLK on January 14, 2011, 22:46:29
14 x 2 %= 28, 28% of $61000 =  $17080 (gross).  Less any penalties (if there are any) for not completing 20 years. 

This if a rough approximation.  As some one said earlier, go see a release clerk.
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: dapaterson on January 14, 2011, 22:59:26
Your CFSA pension is made up of two parts: a core benefit that's yours forever, and a bridge benefit to age 65 - but this bridge benefit is lost if you receive a CPP disability benefit.  The core benefit is about 1.5% per year of service; the bridge benefit is about 0.5% per year of service.

So, if the average of your best five years of service is $61000 and you are medically released with 14 years of service (even one day less will cost you!) you would get:

1.5% per year * 14 years = 21% of $61000 per year or $12810 per year in the core benefit, plus another $4270 per year up to age 65 (0.5% per year *14 years = 7% of $61000).  These amounts have be adjusted somewhat in recent years - the total is still 2% of pay, but the core amount you retain has been increased, and the age 65 reduction has been cut back.  I don't have the precise figures handy, but you should be able to use those figures as a rough guide.  They also vary depending on how much of your earnings were above the CPP maximum earnings.

Indexing means annual increases to account for inflation; it's als known as cost-of-living increases.  If you are medically released, this begins automatically; otherwise you would have to wait until your age plus your years of service was greater than or equal to 85 (for example, age 60 with 25 years of service). 

In addition, as this would be a medical release of a member with more than 10 years of service, you'd receive an immediate unreduced annuity - no penalties due to age or early release.

This is only the CFSA pension (the one you pay into on every pay cheque).  VAC benefits are not included in this.

Much more information on CFSA pensions is available at: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pen/reg/ap-ar/benefits-prestati-eng.asp and http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/forces-pensions/txt/faq-eng.html


For other benefits, there is information available at your local BPSO and at the local IPSC. 
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: dogger1936 on January 14, 2011, 23:13:26
thank you very much guys. And yes  I totally agree a release clerk is the way to go. Im good friends with our cheif clerk and Im sure he can send me to see someone great over there.

DA thanks a bunch for the explination, however I think it would be 28% as the RMS has stated no? 20 % for 10 years 2% a year? Ihave no idea thats why I'm asking!! thanks for the links.
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: dogger1936 on January 14, 2011, 23:16:30
Crikey Dogger,

I wish you asked these questions earlier today... :)

When I get to work Monday, at the IPSC, I will see if I can get some answers for you.

dileas

tess

Thanks man. drop me a pm and we can talk via email from work if you like!
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: dapaterson on January 15, 2011, 00:30:38
Dogger:  2% a year is the shorthand - the actual details are more complex.  And important to understand.   So 2% per year for 14 years is 28%.  28% of $61K is $17080.  But it's not all for life - there's the CPP reduction that comes in at age 65 or when you receive a CPP disability benefit.  The detailed formula is:

(YMPE = Yearly Maximum Pensionable Earnings for CPP)

1.375% of earnings up to YMPE  + 2% of earnings above YMPE  = lifetime benefit

0.625% of earnings up to YMPE = bridge benefit


It's the bridge benefit that goes away at age 65 or when you receive CPP disability.

At 61K, assuming the current YMPE of $48K:


Lifetime benefit = $48K * 1.375% * 14 years + ($61K-48K)*2% * 14 years = $9240 + $3640 = $12 880

Bridge benefit = $48K * 0.625% * 14 years = $4200 per year

Lifetime $12880 + Bridge $4200 = $17080


Be sure you talk with the pension experts to get a full understanding of what's lifetime and what's bridge benefit, and when the bridge will no longer be paid.
Title: MedicaL Release
Post by: farrell486 on April 13, 2011, 09:23:21
Just a general question or two.   I'm looking at leaving the CF and have started the process to try and get released medically but I've hit a road block.  I have a H4 for hearing loss (70 db loss in both ears) and have been accommodated for the past 10 years and according the CF i can't get released medically because of this.  Even though my trade and most CF min requirements for hearing loss is a H3.  I tried the university of service option of not being able to carry out deployments because of hearing aids gives out if they come in contact with water or sweat.  Anyone run into these issues before, myself I've seen people release for hearing loss before and am just wondering is the fact the military have invested 22 years into me maybe playing against me?
Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: Trunk Monkey on April 13, 2011, 23:24:41
 H4 is below any trade minimum. When you were assigned H4, the MO had to recommend H4 and an AR(MEL) carried out by D Med Pol who then made your category permanent. Obviously DMCA, at D Med Pol's recommendation, gave you accommodation or RWOR.  Did you go to an MO and ask for a review and were told no? I cannot find where it says you only get one kick at the cat for a review. It's been a decade, things change.  Go talk to someone at the IPSC and go from there. They have the knowledge and can help you. Hope it all works out.



Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: krustyrl on April 13, 2011, 23:39:41
Am I missing something here.?  You have a PCat for hearing loss and were accomodated for 10 yrs and you are not eligible for a 3b release.?
Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: ModlrMike on April 14, 2011, 00:05:52
I sense a basic misunderstanding of terms is at work here. I wager, from your brief description of events, that you were likely retained without restrictions (RWOR). An accommodation is something completely different. If one is RWOR, they're allowed to stay in, and generally retire or release in the normal fashion... not normally under 3A or 3B. In addition, a medical release is generally not something one seeks, rather it is imposed on a member who fails to meet the medical standard, and can't be retained. Often these folks are accommodated for 1-3 years in order to solidify their pension entitlements.
Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: krustyrl on April 14, 2011, 00:09:48
Check.   Thanks ModlrMike, it was the RWOR that was the curveball for how I read that. 
Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: farrell486 on April 14, 2011, 08:45:40
Yes i was wrong in my post I was retained without restrictions (RWOR) even though my catergory is a H4 and i was never placed on a Catergory.   This is what I've been told by the MIR who actually encouraged me to go for a medical release since i wanted to try another career.  I was told to do a medical review as i was told i break universality of service on a few points.   My case worker is looking into it even she's confused.
Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: Strike on April 14, 2011, 09:01:24
It sounds like someone was trying to do you a favour some time ago and that favour is now backfiring.
Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: Res Release Clerk on April 14, 2011, 09:43:16
A lot of times, the number itself from your Pcat is not taken into consideration. They usually only look at the universality of svc and your trade specifics, so if you can crawl, dig a trench, carry sandbags, do your CF Expres test, do 30 min of drill, use a firearm, do your job around/close to water, use a radio and such, you'll probably be RWOR and no RA(MEL) would be done for you.
However, I find it a little odd that the MIR would actually encourage you to go for a medical release, as their job is to make sure you're fit for duty. A doctor can suggest some MEL in accordance to your current condition but unless your hearing has changed significantly since your last AR(MEL) 10 years ago or you have a new chronic condition that truly breaks U of S, your chances of releasing 3(b) are probably slim.
Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: farrell486 on April 14, 2011, 09:52:54
When i was RWOR 10 years ago my hearing was a H3 which met trade specs currently i'm a H4.  I thought that would make a difference but not according to the MIR.  Even a H4 is generous as thats the highest level the CF uses, when in fact i would be a H5 or H6.  An H4 is 50 db loss at 500, 1000, 2000, 3000 and I'm currently at 70 Db.  I even tried to get the point across without these hearing aids i'm deaf.
Title: Re: MedicaL Release
Post by: ModlrMike on April 14, 2011, 10:13:06
Yes i was wrong in my post I was retained without restrictions (RWOR) even though my category is a H4 and i was never placed on a Category.

If you were RWOR, then you were placed on a category. The two go hand-in-hand.

Quote
This is what I've been told by the MIR who actually encouraged me to go for a medical release since i wanted to try another career.

That's not up to the MIR. Medical releases are not "sought" they are considered after a category incompatable with continued service is awarded. It's a "push" issue, not a "pull" issue.

Quote
I was told to do a medical review as i was told i break universality of service on a few points.   My case worker is looking into it even she's confused.

This is probably what you've been asked to consider. If you hearing has degraded markedly since your last medical, or PCat, then you can ask to have it reviewed. If you fall too far down the scale, you might, and I stress might, be in a position to be medically released.
Title: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: BuzzyBeetle on May 09, 2011, 20:41:06
Good Evening,

My spouse has developed a medical condition since joining the forces (It did not exist before ) and wish's to put in for release, but the Case Manager said they are eligible for a Medical Release. The Paperwork is in limbo with Ottawa, and we are told there is nothing we can do until they review it, which could take up to 2 years! Basically a Medical Release cannot be submitted yet. Can we expedite this somehow? A Regular release is possible to submit, but because this condition was a direct result of the job, we feel a Medical Release is deserved. We have plans to move on with our lives and we can't until this is settled. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks very much
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: medicineman on May 09, 2011, 21:00:08
Your husband has to be assigned a permanent medical category before a medical release can be granted - and that process takes time unfortunately, as there are a pile of review processes the file has to go through and it takes time due to the fact the number of files is inversely proportional to the number of people there are to review them.  If you're in a hurry to get out, it's not to your benefit, due to compensation entitlements that would be forthcoming with a medical release vs voluntary.  In the mean time, has he dealt with the base IPSC yet?  They're a wealth of help and knowledge and usually have Veteran's Affairs hanging out in the same office.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but the process is slow.  Sometimes a nudge (not a yell or scream but a nudge) from the base medical officer or Base Surgeon can get things moving a bit faster, but often not that much.  Ensure that your husband has talked to as many folks as are available to give the pros and cons of waiting and not waiting - IPSC, Case Manager and the Release section for starts, and engage the medical system as well...contrary to popular belief, we are here to help.

MM
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: BuzzyBeetle on May 09, 2011, 22:31:29
Thank you for your response. What does IPSC Stand for? I will encourage the spouse to contact them if they have not already.
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: Hamish Seggie on May 09, 2011, 23:15:10
Thank you for your response. What does IPSC Stand for? I will encourage the spouse to contact them if they have not already.

good day. Where in Canada are you right now? I can help you, guide you in the right direction, but we shouldn't do it on here. I am going to PM you to steer you in the right direction.

Good questions. MM has it right.

MM you  and I should talk.
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: mariomike on May 09, 2011, 23:32:22
More discussion here:
Topic: "Question about releasing from the Navy":
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,93989.msg933661.html#msg933661
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: medicineman on May 10, 2011, 02:13:36
Thank you for your response. What does IPSC Stand for? I will encourage the spouse to contact them if they have not already.

IPSC=Integrated Personnel Support Centre.

MM
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: medicineman on May 10, 2011, 02:17:22
MM you  and I should talk.

True enough - I'll PM you my DWAN addy.

MM
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: BuzzyBeetle on May 12, 2011, 09:47:48
Thanks for your responses everyone!
Title: Medical Release Benefits for non-service related illness?
Post by: coripd on August 09, 2011, 17:04:45
I may be facing release for a newly diagnosed medical condition that prevents continued CF service. It is a deteriorating condition which is not related to my service. It also does not prevent me from attaining full employment after my release - Parkinsons Disease which is, as yet, manageable.

My question is what sort of benefits (if any) am I likely to see upon release? All the info and REFS I can find seem to apply to service related injuries or conditions. Do the terms of a medical pension still apply or am I SOL?

Thanks for your help!
Cori
Title: Re: Medical Release Benefits for non-service related illness?
Post by: medicineman on August 09, 2011, 20:11:28
If you haven't already, get in touch with a case manager at the Base Clinic and VAC - they are better able to steer you where yo need to go with that sort of thing.

MM
Title: Re: Medical Release Benefits for non-service related illness?
Post by: exgunnertdo on August 10, 2011, 12:39:54
A couple of things to ask about - you may be entitled to benefits under these:

Vocational Rehabilitation for Serving Members - once the doctor signs off on the medical release, you can arrange a placement for up to 6 months (CF pays your salary and benefits) and you gain work experience in a new civilian field.

SISIP Long term disability

Priority hire for the public service


I do know of someone who received the Voc Rehab for a non service related condition (diabetes in his case). 

I am pretty sure the LTD is available, regardless of the reason - that's standard in the insurance world in general. You can't work, LTD is there for that.

But you have to be patient and let the process work itself out to get the proper release item.  A friend (different one from the first example) was tempted to just take a voluntary release because the system was so frustrating, but his case worker pointed out that he had to wait out the paperwork to get the right release item to access the benefits. 
Title: Medical Release?
Post by: ClerkyType on August 12, 2011, 19:34:20
Alright, so this is my first, and after searching extensively I was unable to find something relating to my exact question so I thought I'd ask my own.  If I'm in the wrong thread feel free to move it.  So to my real question.

About 6 months into my switch from the Reserves to the Regs, I started seeing a Psychiatrist to treat mild depression.  And everything was going fine, until about two months ago when my supervisor decided to get involved and had me go to the MIR to see an Doctor who decided I should be put on a Form 1 as my Psych was not available.  After my Form was up, I was released and went back to work normally.  However, I had to see an MO since I was hospitalized and he put me on a TCat for a month, and he decided to give me a Medical Part 1 and 2.  During the Part 2, he just went straight to talking about placing me on a PCat, because of  how I am a danger to myself and others, and that I shouldn't be deployed as I need MIR visits more then every six months, near weapons, work for overly long hours because of stress and that I shouldn't be in a supervisor position.  After which he said, it'd be sent to D Med Pol to decide if I'm fit to continue in my current trade (RMS Clk), do an occupational transfer or be released (he mentioned release about 4 or 5 times).  He seemed to take no consideration for my opinion, as I told him that I was capable of what he thought I was unfit for; as I often work long/stressful hours, can be near weapons and can supervise without any negative repercussions.  I also believe that I do not need the amount of time with my Psych as he believes, as when I do see her we talk for maybe 5 minutes and she sees no problem.

My question is since I am already an RMS Clk, what trade could I go that would allow me to stay in?  Or will I simply be released?

And is there anyway to fight this as I should've been allowed up to a year on TCat. 

Any help or advise would be appreciated greatly.  Thank you,
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: cupper on August 12, 2011, 19:47:47
My only comment here would be three things:

Document, Document, Document.

It may come in handy for a redress, if and when the time comes.
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: ClerkyType on August 12, 2011, 22:04:19
What documents might you recommend?  And what could I redress do?

My apologies if those questions are naive.
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: the 48th regulator on August 12, 2011, 23:04:28
What documents might you recommend?  And what could I redress do?

My apologies if those questions are naive.

When a person is Formed, they are usually expressing harm to ones self, or another.  Now, I do not know your situation, but I can almost guarantee you were not given a form one for walking on the grass, or across a parade square on base, wouldn't you agree?

I think there is a wee bit more to your story than you are telling us.  If you want an honest answer, I suggest you tell the complete story.

dileas

tess
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: cupper on August 12, 2011, 23:12:16
Quote
hat documents might you recommend?  And what could I redress do?

My apologies if those questions are naive.
Quote


What I meant was that you should document all visits, all information, direction, recommendations, etc. you are given. Make as many notes as possible about what has happened, who has said what and when, request copies of any reports or so forth that you are entitled to.

It's a CYA thing in case in the future you need to challenge a ruling, order for release or change of trade, or for future disability claims with Veteran Affairs.

I've seen several cases both within the CF and other Government agencies/ departments, where medical issues either stalled or cut short careers, some physical issues and some mental health issues. In all cases, documentation (or lack of it)made all the difference in challenging the original finding / ruling.

This becomes especially crucial when dealing with Veterans Affairs for disability claims.
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: mariomike on August 12, 2011, 23:13:47
had me go to the MIR to see an Doctor who decided I should be put on a Form 1 as my Psych was not available. 

When a person is Formed, they are usually expressing harm to ones self, or another.  Now, I do not know your situation, but I can almost guarantee you were not given a form one for walking on the grass, or across a parade square on base, wouldn't you agree?

There is a "Serious Harm Test" to get on a Form 1:
http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/FormDetail?openform&ENV=WWE&NO=014-6427-41
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: ClerkyType on August 13, 2011, 12:24:01
When a person is Formed, they are usually expressing harm to ones self, or another.  Now, I do not know your situation, but I can almost guarantee you were not given a form one for walking on the grass, or across a parade square on base, wouldn't you agree?

I think there is a wee bit more to your story than you are telling us.  If you want an honest answer, I suggest you tell the complete story.

Well I cut myself a month before I was put on the Form 1 (very minor mind you) and my psych didn't see any real threat.  (I had cut myself twice prior before this, years before).  So there you have it the entire story.
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: the 48th regulator on August 13, 2011, 13:13:27
Alright, so this is my first, and after searching extensively I was unable to find something relating to my exact question so I thought I'd ask my own.  If I'm in the wrong thread feel free to move it.  So to my real question.

About 6 months into my switch from the Reserves to the Regs, I started seeing a Psychiatrist to treat mild depression.  And everything was going fine, until about two months ago when my supervisor decided to get involved and had me go to the MIR to see an Doctor who decided I should be put on a Form 1 as my Psych was not available.  After my Form was up, I was released and went back to work normally.  However, I had to see an MO since I was hospitalized and he put me on a TCat for a month, and he decided to give me a Medical Part 1 and 2.  During the Part 2, he just went straight to talking about placing me on a PCat, because of  how I am a danger to myself and others, and that I shouldn't be deployed as I need MIR visits more then every six months, near weapons, work for overly long hours because of stress and that I shouldn't be in a supervisor position.  After which he said, it'd be sent to D Med Pol to decide if I'm fit to continue in my current trade (RMS Clk), do an occupational transfer or be released (he mentioned release about 4 or 5 times).  He seemed to take no consideration for my opinion, as I told him that I was capable of what he thought I was unfit for; as I often work long/stressful hours, can be near weapons and can supervise without any negative repercussions.  I also believe that I do not need the amount of time with my Psych as he believes, as when I do see her we talk for maybe 5 minutes and she sees no problem.

My question is since I am already an RMS Clk, what trade could I go that would allow me to stay in?  Or will I simply be released?

And is there anyway to fight this as I should've been allowed up to a year on TCat. 

Any help or advise would be appreciated greatly.  Thank you,

Well I cut myself a month before I was put on the Form 1 (very minor mind you) and my psych didn't see any real threat.  (I had cut myself twice prior before this, years before).  So there you have it the entire story.

The parts I have coloured in Yellow, are the parts I agree with.  Orange I don't.

Dude, you are cutting yourself with sharp objects.  This is not normal behaviour, no matter what trade you are in the military.  Concentrate on the Doctors advice, and seek a path of healing and well being.  Never mind challenging the system.  Further, I would drop into your local IPSC, and ask for administrative advice.

dileas

tess
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: mariomike on August 13, 2011, 13:36:42
Well I cut myself a month before I was put on the Form 1 (very minor mind you) and my psych didn't see any real threat.  (I had cut myself twice prior before this, years before).  So there you have it the entire story.

I met a lot of "cutters" over the years. Some people burned themselves. I doubt it was always a suicide attempt. I think the physical pain and blood may actually have been their way of reminding themselves that life was worth living. That happiness was attainable.  Some said they just wanted to stop feeling miserable.

Maybe it was their way of expressing anger and punishing themselves?
It may have been their way of reaching out for help from "the system".

Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: ClerkyType on August 13, 2011, 13:44:51
Dude, you are cutting yourself with sharp objects.  This is not normal behaviour, no matter what trade you are in the military.  Concentrate on the Doctors advice, and seek a path of healing and well being.  Never mind challenging the system.  Further, I would drop into your local IPSC, and ask for administrative advice.

I am following the Doctors advice and I am getting better.  I'm just worried that I'll be released now, with the amount of times the MO said it.
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: the 48th regulator on August 13, 2011, 16:59:59
I am following the Doctors advice and I am getting better.  I'm just worried that I'll be released now, with the amount of times the MO said it.



Then concentrate your efforts on getting better, rather than wasting time finding ways to fight the system.

dileas

tess
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: kstart on August 13, 2011, 17:34:34
Civilian here, I had to look up TCat and PCat to familiarize with these terms, designations.  Kind of lame, but I research for relaxation, hobby.  ;D  I'm on disability atm, ptsd (lower functioning, re: routines, etc.) -- not the end of the world. 


Cutting is not necessarily suicidal-- when you got formed-- did you have to stay in hospital for a bit (e.g. 12 hours, 24, 72. . .)?  But it is signs of distress, overwhelment, hurting on the inside.  For me, it was a way to regain back a sense of control, help me re-focus, when the brain/mind felt out of control.  Self-monitoring, e.g. use of the SUDs-scale (mindfulness), to recognize earlier to intervene before that stress response presents.  CBT, to help manage 'mind'.  There's other tricks to prevent self-harm (some people use 'ice cubes').


When I look over CF policies and procedures, they seem to have a fair and transparent policy.  It is care to help a member seek help and they're preventing further harm and damage which can come about via burnout (causing further disability), or even deployment if not ready for it etc.  They're protecting you and health of unit.  It's good too see that CF is responsive, and won't leave others dangling or in situations that could worsen symptoms and recovery.


 

Anyway, from some net-surfing, this is what I found:

These Links seem to suggest a bit about process, review, re: MEL (Medical Employment Limitations):

TCats and Pcats:  
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/11-04-eng.asp

CFP, Appendix H:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/AN-H-eng.aspz;
A bit about the process.  Appendix H-- MO’s recommendations would also need to be approved.  Not a guarantee that MO’s recommendations would automatically be approved for PCat designation.  It looks like you have some to breathe a bit.

48th's recommendations to follow up re: administrative help, forms, some expertise and guidance through the process, sounds like good sound advice.  Something to look into asap.

Stuff to keep familiar about: CFP 154
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/default-eng.asp

You asked about job transfer, there are minimal standards per each Military Occupation (MOSID):
Quote
My question is since I am already an RMS Clk, what trade could I go that would allow me to stay in?  Or will I simply be released?

MOC Task Statements (minimal standards by occupation)
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/AN-E-eng.asp

RMC Clk:
Quote
836 Resource Management Support Clerk  4 3 3 3 3 5 00298
Minimal Standards: Vision (V): 4 ; Colour Vision (CV): 3; Hearing (H): 3; Geographic Factor (G): 3; Occupational Factor (O): 3 ; Air Factor (A): 5 
(Military Occupational Structure ID, MOSID: 00298)

Chapter 2 of CFP: clarifies the terms and scale, re: Minimal medical standards scale (Vision; Colour Vision; Hearing; Geographical Factor, Occupational Factor and Air: V, Cv, H, G, O, A):
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/CH-2-eng.asp

Generic Task Statements
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/AN-Dapp3-faq-eng.asp


Expectations of deployability (but for which TCat and PCat can exempt from, MEL):

I watched the video here re: MRC:
http://www.forces.ca/en/job/resourcemanagementsupportclerk-78 

From that, I got that there is also the expectation to be able to function on sea ship, or plane, or in various contexts of deployment, applying soldier training, functions beyond administrative/office.  Universality of Service.


Specific to the wording of your MO's recommendations re: TCat/PCat, I'd look at this wording from:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/CH-3-eng.asp

Quote
Geographical Factors
G1 - assigned to the member who has successfully passed the stringent medical requirements for such unique duty as astronaut training;

G2 - assigned to the member:
who has no geographical limitations due to a medical condition; and
who is considered healthy and, at most, requires only routine, periodic or scheduled medical services no more frequently than every twelve (12) months (see definitions in Chapter 2, 4.c.).

G3 - assigned to the member:
who is considered likely fit for field exercises, sea environment, isolated postings and operational taskings for periods up to six (6) months;
who has a known requirement for scheduled medical service (see definitions in Chapter 2, 4.c.) by an MO but no more frequently than every six (6) months;
whose limitations resulting from a known medical condition do not pose an unacceptable risk to the health and/or safety of the individual or fellow workers in the operational/work environment;
who may require and take prescription medications, the unexpected discontinuance (unavailability) of which will not create an unacceptable risk to the member's health and/or safety; and/or
who may require a medical evaluation before being sent on the tasking.

G4 - assigned to the member:
who is considered unfit because of medical limitations inherent to the medical condition itself or because of the unacceptable risk to the health and/or safety of this person or to fellow workers imposed by the operational environment on the medical condition;
who may be on prescription medications, the unexpected discontinuance of which, for even a few days, is considered likely to create an unacceptable risk to the health and / or safety of this person (or to co-workers);
who may require close proximity to medical services/ready access to physician-directed medical care; and / or
who generally requires scheduled medical care by a MO more frequently than every six (6) months.

G5 - assigned to the member:
who requires scheduled specialist medical care more frequently than every six (6) months; and
who is considered unfit for duty in an area that does not have ready access to full medical services.

G6 - assigned to the member who is considered unfit for any work environment.

Quote
O - Occupational Factor - General
7. The physical and mental activity and the stress associated with employment within a specific MOC, although often difficult to describe and measure in an objective and reproducible manner, are important aspects in the grading of the occupational factor. The demands on the member may vary with the MOC, as well as with the geographical locale. In general, the associated mental stress is not described in any detail, unless a specific MOC or medical condition(s) (usually psychiatric) so dictates. In these cases, consultation with a military psychiatrist should describe acceptable levels of mental stress for the particular member. Annex D serves as a concise guide to the expected tasks and duties of all military personnel. Members with medical conditions which impose limitations should be assessed against both the Generic and the MOC Task Statements. In this way, an appropriate O factor can be assigned. Many of the questions suggested in paragraph 4 of Chapter 2 should be considered in the assessment of the occupational limitations and should be reviewed prior to assigning the O factor.

Occupational Factors
O1 - assigned to those rare members who have successfully completed medical screening for such unique duties as astronaut training.

O2 - assigned to the member who has no employment limitations of a medical nature

O3 - assigned to the member who has some specific employment limitation(s) which can be clearly and specifically detailed, and which prevent the member from fully meeting the Generic or the MOC task statements.

O4 - assigned to the member:
who has sufficient limitations such that employment in an operational scenario is, on balance, compromised;
who is generally restricted to light duties only, i.e., general office tasks, including delivering mail, parcels and supplies and maintaining a stock room (these tasks involve lifting and carrying objects of variable weight and bulk and require the ability to walk and climb stairs while carrying out these duties);
who is capable of working a full eight (8) hours per day; and / or
who is considered fit for shift work as long as it is stable (i.e., shifts don't change rapidly).

O5 - assigned to the member:
who is generally restricted to sedentary duties such as clerical / desk work only, which do not involve lifting and carrying objects or climbing stairs or ladders with these materials (typically these individuals are capable of acting as a receptionist, answering telephones, and doing typing and some light office filing);
who is capable of working up to eight (8) hours per day but generally at his / her own pace;
who is not considered fit for shift work; and
unfit for any military work.

O6 - assigned to the member who is unable to work in any capacity.

I think 48th also gave good advice re: focussing on your wellness and recovery. 
See the admin people, learn and do what you have to there, do what you can, then put it aside, and re-focus on wellness, recovery, duties.

But I'm a civvy, some informational links are there-- I don't have direct experience, and my interpretations can be weak, but it's there for discussion.

Worse case scenarios: You'll be okay.  Your RMS skills also look easily transferable to civilian, e.g. work at banks, secretarial, government positions, etc., same with physical fitness (opens up a lot of possibilities as well)-- you've gained really good work experience for your CV.  Help for Depression recovery is also accessible in civilian world, so that's not a barrier either.  It may not be the worst case scenario, re: discharge.  But it makes sense to do what you can.

Best of Luck to You  :salute:

Edit: I cut and pasted text directly from document, but I'm getting the "cool smiley" (one with the shades).  And '8' enclosed in brackets. . . just a test, but  (8)  Confirmed, that's why the smile guys showed up in the quoted text
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: kstart on August 13, 2011, 17:44:58



Then concentrate your efforts on getting better, rather than wasting time finding ways to fight the system.

dileas

tess

I don't think the system is against you.  And you can make yourself sicker with excessive worry over it (IME  ;) ).  Make sure you are taking care of yourself,  Exercise, socialize, hobbies, etc.-- not stressing over it, don't think or worry about it for too long, or for long periods of time.

I think 48th is giving good advice (from my perspective, IME).  Letting the mind spin too much and for too long can add a psychosis to the depression dx (not fun, IME-- that just means way more recovery work on top of what you are working through).  Avoiding drama and over-dramatization (e.g. 'you against the world, the system'-- can keep you down and it can become unhealthy.  With depression, you need to take care of yourself, healthy activities, healthier mental activities too.
Title: Re: Medical Release?
Post by: Rider Pride on August 13, 2011, 23:27:59
My question is since I am already an RMS Clk, what trade could I go that would allow me to stay in?  Or will I simply be released?

And is there anyway to fight this as I should've been allowed up to a year on TCat. 

Just let me start by saying I side with the actions of the MO.

First, there is no minimum time for you to be on TCat. A MO can put you on PCat immediately if they assess your condition to remain for the duration of your service.

Secondly, the reviewing procedure for all medical categories is extensive. If you are on PCat, there is a board which sits and decides if you remain suitable for your trade or not; it is not decided by that specific MO who is handling your medical.

The best way to fight this is to get better and stop the cutting.
Title: Medical Release
Post by: rugbyalberta on December 09, 2011, 00:24:37
I know there have been more than a few topics posted on the subject and I have read them. Some of the questions I have aren't answered or even asked though.

I was injured in a training accident 2 years ago, I blew out my knee to the point where it required multiple surgeries to get it to be usable again. The thing is it's never returned to full strength and it doesn't seem to be improving any more. I'm at the end of my third TCat so I'm researching a little bit more about medical release. The main question I have is what compensation and benefits are given on medical release? I'm still in school for the next year and a bit so I need to make sure I can graduate before all else. I've been informed I'm going to need more surgeries in later life due to this injury, what kind of support is offered for that?
Title: Re: Medical Release
Post by: MCG on December 09, 2011, 00:37:19
Are you doing a post-grad? 

The Admin Reveiw normally takes several months.  If a decision to release is made, there will only be another few more months before the "release not later than" date.  However, if you are doing a sponsored post-grad, you might consider asking for retention up to 3 years (you get the opportunity during the AR to state your case).  This would ensure you stay in long enough to get the schooling complete as you want, and it would let the PG sponsor get some return on the investment.  There are certain medical release benefits that need to be taken before the realease (things mostly focused on the transition) - a period of retention would also give you more time to take advantage of these.

A SCAN seminar is the best place to start getting answers to many of the questions you have.

Title: Re: Medical Release
Post by: Occam on December 09, 2011, 00:55:23
A SCAN seminar is the best place to start getting answers to many of the questions you have.

Yup, that would be wise...but given that SCAN seminars are not given on a frequent basis, I would say a CF Case Manager would be a better first stop while waiting for the next SCAN seminar. 

Or, The Centre (http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/cen/index-eng.asp).
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: dogger1936 on December 20, 2011, 15:23:54
Thank you for this dapaterson.
I'm having a day of clarity and this is making somewhat more sense!

So looking at 17,000 a year until 65; however where does VAC and SISIP contribute?

Personally I don't seem to think I will be doing much of anything IRT working after the military. Every attempt to work had ended in utter failure over this past year. I've thought about getting into photography but doubt I will earn much of a living off it to be truthful. Alas it will be something to give me purpose.

I keep seeing this minimal earnings of 40,000 a year and such. How does that work?

Just saying I release and take photography as my vocational rehab. I move to tinytown and buy a farm house. I sell a few photos to magazines and a few online. Thats what i'm thinking will be the honest reality of my next "career". Something where i can be alone and not have any stress.

If I make 5000 dollars through photography receive 17,000 from my pension annually do I have to keep sending updates to VAC to show them my income made? Is it adjusted per year? I'm slightly confused on all that.

Honestly to get some info on a secure income would be a godsend to me and my young family right now.
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: Pusser on December 20, 2011, 17:14:11
Keep in mind that if it's a medical release (Art. 3), your CFSA benefits should indexed immediately (i.e. increased annually due to inflation), so you shouldn't be receiving only $17K per year until 65.  It should go up each year.

You should also look into CPP benefits that may be available as I think they do cover some disability situations.  You may also want to consider drawing regular CPP early (i.e. 60 vice 65).  It would be a reduced benefit, but drawing it earlier may be to your advantage (it's also noting that there is no CFSA reduction due to CPP until you turn 65, even if you do start drawing CPP at 60).

SISIP and VAC benefits are separate from this (that may be where the minimum annual income comes in).
Title: Re: Medical release questions
Post by: dogger1936 on December 20, 2011, 23:24:06
Pusser

Thank you very much. you have been very helpful as I try to wade through the black and white print of all this.  I commend you for the wealth of knowledge you bring to a forum like this. Thanks.

I did find some things tonight that I will post here to hopefully help someone out in the future.

Found this VERY helpful.
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/information-canadian-forces/faq#disability-benefits

I would like to ask if anyone has dealt with Earnings loss program yet and how it works. Do you have to be like a welfare case and apply every moth? Is it automatic? Any issues?

As well has anyone here received permant impairment allowance? I have heard a few years back that this was darn near impossible to receive but do recall hearing it may have changed recently?

Any help would be great guys. I'm not finding any answers to these few things as I look into my feature.
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: ryanb2311 on October 11, 2012, 14:03:13
Hi there Medicine Man, I am with IPSC and I have been waiting for a medical release for almost 4 yrs. I've been on medical since the beginning of 2008. I am so fed up with waiting. I have no family or friends here on the island, All my family is in Ontario. My girlfriend is in Vancouver and I have a cousin in Squamish. I am writing a very striong worded but appropriate memo and letter to ottawa about my release. Plus if all else fails Im going to talk to newspapers and news stations. Is there anything you can do to help so that I don't have to resort to that last option?
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: medicineman on October 11, 2012, 14:44:03
Ryan, I'm no longer actively in the CF, much less on the Island - I practice out in Manitoba now.  PM me your concerns and I'll see what I can advise you on based on that - this might not be something for the main forums.

Cheers.

MM
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: ryanb2311 on October 11, 2012, 15:04:17
How do I PM you?
Title: Re: Medical Release Questions? Can it be Expedited?
Post by: medicineman on October 12, 2012, 14:36:25
How do I PM you?

Little word bubble thingy under my avatar or go to the "My messages" link near the search box, compose message to me.

MM
Title: Medical release Questions
Post by: TryingtoRelease on December 20, 2012, 12:31:19
Hello,

After eight happy years in the reserves, and one tour to Afghanistan I am ready to pull the plug. I have a chit that doesnt allow me near weapons, or military vehicles, because of PTSD. Not just becasue im a bad driver, haha.  Ive just started my release in November.
People are trying to push me towards a medical release.  And i hear that can take years.  Ive been to the MO.  I am not interested in taking meds, and that seems to be the main treatment available.  So thats what started my release.

 So what is the benifit to a medical release?   
Title: Re: Medical release Questions
Post by: wesleyd on December 20, 2012, 12:56:24
It really depends on your personal situation.
I would recommend getting treatment. Meds are not the only way to do this. If your injury is CF related you may be entitled to a disability award and other benefits from Veterans Affairs Canada.

Have you gone to your local IPSC? Used to be SPHL. Some call it JPSU.
If there is one local go see them or call and make an appointment. They have the people there who can answer your questions and any entitlements you may benefit from.

As each individual case is different there is really no quick answer to your question, I am by no means an expert and would not want to provide you with the wrong information. Your chain of command and your doctor should be able to assist you.

There are Peer Support Councillor's that you can speak with that have been through similar situations so they can help you out, or just listen. Check the link and click on your region.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/jpsu-uisp/rjp-uis/index-eng.asp

I hope you get treatment. PTSD is a long and difficult road to recovery. I suffer as well and am still getting treatment and things are getting better for it.

Best Wishes
Title: Re: Medical release Questions
Post by: GR66 on December 20, 2012, 13:06:28
Definitely contact your local IPSC.  They can give you information on the benefits of a medical release as well a put you in touch with the many services that are available to service members.

OSISS (Operational Stress Injury Social Support) is a peer support group for members suffering from PTSD (http://www.osiss.ca/engraph/index_e.asp?sidecat=1).  Meds are not your only option and there is support available to you.

Take care of yourself.
Title: Re: Medical release Questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on December 20, 2012, 14:34:48

 So what is the benifit to a medical release?

So 5 years down the road you can't turn around and say you got PTSD while in Afghanistan and had to leave the Canadian Forces and wasn't given any help assistance or support for your condition.

If you really want to just release and not deal with the hassle (understandable) then just release but understand getting help down the road will be difficult.
Title: Re: Medical release Questions
Post by: maniac on December 20, 2012, 15:41:27
All very good advise.  You should ask as client service rep at your local IPSC,  everything you need outside of medical care is located there.  FYI, you can expedite a medical release,  you just have to let them know.
Title: Re: Medical release Questions
Post by: MedTech32 on December 21, 2012, 19:56:44
Trying to Release,

I can understand why you don't want the pharmaceutical approach.  That is something between you and your doctor, you certainly have the right to refuse treatment unless you are a danger to yourself or others.  Check out this site/facebook group, they may be able to help you and have been very helpful to many others.

http://www.facebook.com/MilitaryMindsYT?fref=ts

http://www.militaryminds.ca

There is nothing wrong with a medical release.  A 3b or 3a release is still an Honorable Discharge.  I have a little more than 6 years of reg force time and my release message is due "sometime" after Christmas.  With the current timelines I'll be out in time to move and start university in September.  And my actual release started in May, so looking at about a year, and I'm trying to shorten it as much as I can.

Your profile is pretty blank, so it's kinda hard to help you out more.  If you'd like you can PM more.  I'd be more then happy to help. 
Title: Re: Medical release Questions
Post by: muskrat89 on January 06, 2013, 12:21:40
Hello - I am freakishly close to the boundaries of my lanes here, but it appears you have suffered a service related injury/illness that precludes you from serving in the capacity needed/desired. If it was a broken back or poked-out eye, it would be obvious to most that you need to be released in a manner that ensures your future care, compensation, etc. PTSD should be looked at no differently, in my opinion.

There are many on the board far more familiar with the nuances of the system, and you already have a good start in getting some advice. I would encourage you to put the brakes on a bit, and continue to gather information not only pertaining to treatment but what other benefits might be available to you.
Title: Medical release question
Post by: Mukd on November 20, 2013, 20:32:35
After some time searching through the forums, I couldn't find any info on this so I thought I would ask it in here.  I'm being medically released for OSI's.  My dream has always been to be a police officer.  After being medically released for an OSI, are you still eligible for policing? (Municipal, provincial)  I ask because on my med chit it says no live ammunition or firearms.  Thanks for any insight you can give!
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: Teager on November 20, 2013, 21:00:51
I'm not going to say yes or no to you. However my dad is a recently retired OPP officer and he's mentioned that those with PTSD or mental health issues don't have much in the chance of being hired. I to wanted to be a police officer but can't due to physical wounds. Note that if police officer isn't doable there may be other jobs within emergency services that may allow you to still work in that area of interest.

All the best.
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: mariomike on November 20, 2013, 21:43:50
I'm not going to say yes or no to you. However my dad is a recently retired OPP officer and he's mentioned that those with PTSD or mental health issues don't have much in the chance of being hired. I to wanted to be a police officer but can't due to physical wounds. Note that if police officer isn't doable there may be other jobs within emergency services that may allow you to still work in that area of interest.

I just looked at our online Health Questionnaire. I believe what your dad had to say would also apply to Paramedic.

As always, best to ask a Recruiter of the service(s) you wish to apply to.
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: Teager on November 21, 2013, 10:40:38
Mukd I should also add that you should talk with the IPSC/JPSU staff and your case manager about career options and what is available to you. Once released you can also see what VAC has to offer. Using these resources and programs can help you find a job that you will still enjoy.
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: Ice97 on November 21, 2013, 14:27:02
After some time searching through the forums, I couldn't find any info on this so I thought I would ask it in here.  I'm being medically released for OSI's.  My dream has always been to be a police officer.  After being medically released for an OSI, are you still eligible for policing? (Municipal, provincial)  I ask because on my med chit it says no live ammunition or firearms.  Thanks for any insight you can give!

Not to rain on your parade....but how exactly do you plan on becoming a police officer if you cannot handle ammo or firearms?
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: recceguy on November 21, 2013, 14:48:57
Not to rain on your parade....but how exactly do you plan on becoming a police officer if you cannot handle ammo or firearms?

^^^
This
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: captloadie on November 21, 2013, 15:29:39
So, your OSI is either triggered by handling weapons and ammunition, or the mental health people believe it is unsafe for you, and/or others around you if you are given access to ammunition and firearms. Part of your treatment should have made you realize this, so seeking out a civilian occupation where you would come in contact with these triggers seems counter intuitive.

Or, and I hope it isn't the case, your playing a game to get out, and faking an OSI.
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: Mukd on November 21, 2013, 20:36:54
So, your OSI is either triggered by handling weapons and ammunition, or the mental health people believe it is unsafe for you, and/or others around you if you are given access to ammunition and firearms. Part of your treatment should have made you realize this, so seeking out a civilian occupation where you would come in contact with these triggers seems counter intuitive.

Or, and I hope it isn't the case, your playing a game to get out, and faking an OSI.

Thanks for all of the replies!  My OSI has nothing to do with handling weapons or live ammunition, I was told by the MO that they are required to put that on the medical chit for anyone with an OSI, along with unfit operational environment.  Which brought me to the question of whether or not this transfers to civi side / policing.
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: mariomike on November 21, 2013, 21:35:45
Which brought me to the question of whether or not this transfers to civi side / policing.

This may help.

Constable Selection System
Medical Requirements for Candidates
http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/stellent/groups/public/@mcscs/@www/@com/documents/webasset/ec075034.pdf
Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: Rider Pride on November 22, 2013, 12:32:13
I was told by the MO that they are required to put that on the medical chit for anyone with an OSI, along with unfit operational environment.


they are required to put that on the medical chit for anyone with an OSI


Complete and utter bullshit.


Title: Re: Medical release question
Post by: medicineman on November 22, 2013, 14:50:34
To answer the question of the OP, this will come up either during your psych interview or medical interview...had a member that was releasing that had an OSI put in an app to an unmentioned municipal police service and I got a letter from them (with the Medical Release of Information Request) asking for documentation regarding general physical health and all things related to the mental health diagnoses.  The service in question will likely want the same of you.

As for this :

they are required to put that on the medical chit for anyone with an OSI
followed by this:
Complete and utter bullshit.
... I'd agree with RP.  I'd only put someone on that kind of restriction if the sounds/sights caused flashbacks or exaggerated startle response or if I thought they were a physical danger to themselves or others (ie - having psychosis issues or suicidality).

I'd venture to guess that if you applied for a PAL for a firearm, the fact you had a prohibition from a Medical Officer to use firearms in a military setting (something required of any soldier, sailor or pigeon) would come up as a flag if the Firearm's Officer actually does a background check on you...it would likely follow you into policing as well for the same reason, as a firearm is required equipment in Canadian police services.

 :2c:

MM

Title: 3A and 3B medical???? What's the difference
Post by: D-C on February 16, 2014, 00:43:09
Hello all,
From my subject line you can guess what my question is. So, can someone please tell me the difference.
D-C
Title: Re: 3A and 3B medical???? What's the difference
Post by: PMedMoe on February 16, 2014, 11:08:02
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-01/chapter-chapitre-015-eng.asp
Title: Re: 3A and 3B medical???? What's the difference
Post by: D-C on February 16, 2014, 12:34:29
Thanks, PMedMoe. So a 3a is worse then a 3b? 3b you may be able to rejoin where as a 3a your not?Or is it on a case by case bases?
D-C
Title: Re: 3A and 3B medical???? What's the difference
Post by: DAA on February 16, 2014, 12:51:16
Thanks, PMedMoe. So a 3a is worse then a 3b? 3b you may be able to rejoin where as a 3a your not?Or is it on a case by case bases?
D-C

The majority, if not all, medical releases will be a "3.B.".  If memory serves me correct, if you are released under Item 3.B., you can't re-apply to the CF until 2 years after your release date and you would have to prove that the circumstances surrounding your previous medical release are no longer applicable and have been satisfactorily resolved and won't necessarily re-occur.
Title: Re: 3A and 3B medical???? What's the difference
Post by: D-C on February 17, 2014, 00:25:00
Thanks DAA, That makes it somewhat clearer.
D-C
Title: Re: 3A and 3B medical???? What's the difference
Post by: D-C on February 17, 2014, 00:27:46
That will slow down the application process for sure.
D-C
Title: Medical Release
Post by: Newguy1 on March 10, 2014, 00:00:10
If a recruit injures their knee during BMQ and the medical staff decide its going to take 4 or 5 months to recover and release you, what category would the release likely be?

3B? 5D?
Title: Re: Medical Release
Post by: Simian Turner on March 10, 2014, 00:30:07
Did the soldier have a pre-existing medical condition involving the knee prior to enrolment?
Title: Re: Medical Release
Post by: Newguy1 on March 10, 2014, 00:32:50
Lets try both scenarios :)

1. Yes, the recruit reported a preexisting injury but passed the medical and injured it halfway thru bmq

2. No pre existing condition
Title: Re: Medical Release
Post by: MedTech32 on March 10, 2014, 16:33:58
How's this for answer from someone who had 6.5 yrs as a medic before being Medically released:

First Off, the medical staff do not decide to release anybody, ever.  This is decided by an "impartial" board in Ottawa.  Secondly if there was a preexisting injury as long as it was FULLY disclosed during the recruiting medical. There would be no reason for a 1D (Fraudulent Statement on Enrollment) or 5E (Irregular Enrollment) Release.

CFHS will assign Medical Employment Limitations, if those limitations will last longer then 12 months, OR if they blatantly and obviously breech Universality of Service with NO chance of recovery.  Then your file is sent to the Administrative Review Bored, Medical Employment Limitation  AR(MEL).  It is this board that decides:

1. Release Category if any
2. Compulsory Occupation Transfer (ie you can't be a pilot, but you can be a cook)
3. Retained without Career Restrictions
4. Retained With Career Restrictions

There is no other Authority WRT Medical Releases.  Even a Court Martial cannot overturn a Medical Release and CO's/OC's have absolutely no say in the matter (trust me).

Ok now that we have that cleared up.  For this "hypothetical situation"  If a recruit injures his/her knee during basic training and it required 4-5 months to heal (not unreasonable actually), there is absolutely NO reason or cause for a release.  The road to a medical release is not quick  IOT afford the member every treatment available to the correct the condition and bring the member back into compliance with UoS/their trade. 

1. Initial Injury -> usually several weeks off/light duties (serious injuries, not common colds or minor sprains)
2. Decided by MO that it is going to take longer to heal, 1st T-CAT (Temporary Category) 6 months
3. Still not quite healed, prognosis good, second T-CAT 6 Months
4. All Healed, back to work or
5. Not healed P-CAT (Permanent Category), takes 3-6 months to get back from Director Medical Policy (DMED Pol)
6. File automatically sent to ARMEL if your restrictions or Category breach UoS or your Trade requirements.
7. 3-6 months to get an acknowledgement from AR (MEL) board that they have your file
8. 6 more months to actually get a release date that will be in 6 months.

So you can see, it can take up to 30 + months to get the boot.  Mine was 34 months and that was because I opted not to have disclosure and to fast track my release (an option @#7 above, not recommended unless you absolutely know what you are doing)

Now I don't know how fast Ottawa is moving since I left a year ago, but I doubt it's moving much faster (feel free to correct me)

So that's the Medical Release process in a Nutshell (again). 

Check out the release QR&O's here, there is some important information to know.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-01/chapter-chapitre-015-eng.asp





Title: Re: Medical Release
Post by: Newguy1 on March 13, 2014, 12:20:26
Thanks!
Title: Potential Medical Release, Have Questions
Post by: ArtyInQc on January 13, 2016, 17:10:09
I'm currently on my second TCAT and was told by the MedTech/Doc handling my case that after this TCAT (which ends February third) that I may end up on a PCAT. My injury has to do with my knee, and they have had me doing physio for over a year and it has done little to nothing. I finish my initial contract in March but signed for an additional 5. So my questions are as follows:

1. If I am medically released, what am I looking at in terms of compensation/time line?

2. Would VR'ing be a better route?

Any other information would be greatly appriciated.
Title: Re: Potential Medical Release, Have Questions
Post by: Occam on January 13, 2016, 17:34:01
2. Would VR'ing be a better route?

A better route than what?  If you want to stay in the CF, don't VR.  If your injury is service-related, don't VR.  If it turns out you have to be released, a medical release is infinitely better benefit-wise than what you'll get under a voluntary release category.
Title: Re: Potential Medical Release, Have Questions
Post by: Andraste on May 03, 2016, 07:20:24
Unless you want to get out, I would not jump the shark with a VR but allow the process to play out.  When you are assigned a PCAT that triggers and Admin Review Medical Employment Limitations (ARMEL) at D Med POL.  They will examine your PCAT to determine if you breach Universality of Service.  If you do, then medical release is recommended.  If you do not breach UoS then a recommendation of "retained in current MOSID with restrictions" is plausible (depending on your task statements) or a "compulsory occupation transfer ARMEL".

Cheers

Andraste
Title: Re: Potential Medical Release, Have Questions
Post by: TwoTonShackle on May 03, 2016, 09:55:54
Andraste nailed it, a PCAT is not necessarily a medical release.  If there is a light at the end of your medical treatment tunnel, then the medical review should see that as wee and treat you accordingly.  What I think needs to be stressed is don't VR.  If your current situation leads to a medical release, there are benefits that come with that.  Jumping the gun with a VR might eliminate these benefits before a medical review could happen.
Title: Re: Potential Medical Release, Have Questions
Post by: Staff Weenie on May 03, 2016, 11:57:50
Never take a VR if a 3b is coming. There are indeed benefits and services that come with a 3b Release. Talk to the Client Services section of your supporting Integrated Personnel Support Centre. They can fill you in on all the transition programs and services. Once you release, you can't go back and have your Release Item changed to a 3b, and that can impact your eligibility for Priority Hire for Federal Public Service positions.

If you don't know whom to contact for information, just send me a PM letting me know where you are, and I'll get you contact info for the nearest IPSC.
Title: Re: Potential Medical Release, Have Questions
Post by: mariomike on May 03, 2016, 12:32:16
Not sure if the Original Poster is reading her/his replies,

Date Registered: January 13, 2016, 16:42:05
Last Active: January 13, 2016, 23:19:53
Title: Being medically release! Help!
Post by: Bellerophon on May 23, 2016, 19:18:53
I am not sure what to expect in a near future because I am stuck in limbo waiting to see what happens, and what decision I could start making prior to being released.

There is a lot going on at this moment but due too heavy injury in my body I am being force to release from the infantry. There are s lot of things I wanted to ask but I'll get too few first.


(Edited by Moderator to remove questions from poll format.)
Title: Re: Being medically release! Help!
Post by: Brihard on May 24, 2016, 00:46:30
I am not sure what to expect in a near future because I am stuck in limbo waiting to see what happens, and what decision I could start making prior to being released.

There is a lot going on at this moment but due too heavy injury in my body I am being force to release from the infantry. There are s lot of things I wanted to ask but I'll get too few first.

  • Will I be cover for post-secondary? And will they cover me if I move out of Canada back to my family?
  • I am shy of the 10 year mark; is it true I will not get a pension?
  • What are the benefits from this medical release besides "doctor appointments and medicine"
  • How long does it take to get medically release? And will I be cut from receiving paycheques as soon as I'm released?
  • Are moving expenses and such things covered In and out of the country?

(Edited by Moderator to remove questions from poll format.)

Bellerophon, assuming that like most of us you've got Facebook, there is a group called 'Veterans 3B Support Group Canada'. Many members on there have gone through or are going through medical releases, and you should find that much of what you're asking will be directly aswered there.

Without knowing more about your circumstances, it's hard to offer you much right now. Reg/Reserve? Service related injury/illness, or something else? There are a number of benefits and programs available for medically released personnel, and depending on your circumstances, there will be different resources available to help you through this.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/432709853584762/
Title: JPSU? And Consideration of PCAT?
Post by: Bellerophon on August 19, 2016, 20:35:13
I am a little confuse about the process of being medically release from the military. as in this moment I am going Consideration for PCAT: I was told this has to go up to Ottawa and then back which could take about 4 months. I was also told considering my case it's almost a 100% guarantee. What i wanted to know is... If I am posted to JPSU could i being to relocate myself even If my PCAT still under review?
Title: Medical Release Process
Post by: royalcrimson on June 02, 2017, 14:08:36
Hi,

I am trying to find out info on how is the medical release process initiated.

I have heard that it is initiated by both my unit and the medics/docs.  I have been trying to find anything at all to see how is the decision to medically release someone is made.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.