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The Mess => Foreign Militaries => Australian Defence Force => Topic started by: S.M.A. on February 29, 2016, 10:50:50

Title: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: S.M.A. on February 29, 2016, 10:50:50
Bad news for support contractors of this platform, if true.

Not sure whether to fully believe this considering the "War is Boring" site has been derided by experts on other forums who question its credibility:

War is Boring (http://warisboring.com/articles/australia-to-ditch-its-tiger-gunships-which-have-never-seen-combat/)

Quote
Australia Is Giving Up on Its Tiger Gunships, Which Have Never Seen Combat
This helicopter has problems

Australia February 28, 2016 Robert Beckhusen

Australia bought its Tiger ARH attack helicopters only eight years ago, and now it wants to scrap all 22 of them. Even more embarrassing, the Tiger has still not yet achieved “final operational capability” — meaning the helicopter never fully became ready for combat.

The decision to ditch the Tiger — to occur in the 2020s — landed with a thud with the release of Australia’s 2016 defense white paper, which laid out the country’s military strategy over the coming decades. The plan includes U.S. $21.5 billion in new spending, which would pay for new submarines, frigates, patrol vessels, aircraft and drones among many other big-ticket items.

(...SNIPPED)
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Journeyman on February 29, 2016, 11:26:52
The decision to ditch the Tiger — to occur in the 2020s — landed with a thud with the release of Australia’s 2016 defense white paper, which laid out the country’s military strategy over the coming decades. The plan includes U.S. $21.5 billion in new spending, which would pay for new submarines, frigates, patrol vessels, aircraft and drones among many other big-ticket items.
Gee, defence spending realities. If you're investing heavily in capability A you may have to divest capability B, which is deemed a lesser risk demand, in order to keep spending within arcs.

Of course that doesn't qualify as "gotcha 'journalism'."


Thanks for coming out, War is Boring.   :-*
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: CloudCover on February 29, 2016, 13:13:37
The AH1-Z Viper is probably a better fit for the 2 new LPH anyway. Australia is orientating to a marine corps type of expeditionary force projection model. I don't see how they can do that effectively without a gunship, and a BlackHawk with a Gatling gun is a half asses substitute.
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: George Wallace on February 29, 2016, 13:21:59
The AH1-Z Viper is probably a better fit for the 2 new LPH anyway. Australia is orientating to a marine corps type of expeditionary force projection model. I don't see how they can do that effectively without a gunship, and a BlackHawk with a Gatling gun is a half asses substitute.

And the AH1-Z takes up half the space of an Apache.....  [:D
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: CloudCover on February 29, 2016, 13:37:15
4.56 of the Whitepaper states the Tiger will be replaced with a new armed reconnaissance capability from the mid 2020's. So, I think the Tiger will see the decks of the Canberra class.
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Dimsum on July 10, 2019, 22:23:18
Australia issues RFI for Tiger ARH replacement. 

Ordered in 2001, FOC 2016 (!), and deployed...never.  You'd think the ADF had learned from that about having spares close by and having a commonality with other Tiger variants, but then the RAN goes and orders a diesel-electric version of a French nuclear sub.
Quote

Under the Land 4503 programme, the Australian Department of Defence’s Capability Acquisition and Sustainment Group (CASG) is seeking information to acquire a total of 29 airframes. Of these 29, 24 are to be based at a single location, with a further five to be used for training operations.

The timelines for the programme anticipate an initial operating capability (IOC) of a squadron of 12 aircraft by 2026, with full operational capability (FOC) from 2028.

The concept of operations outlined in the RfI documentation include the ability to deploy a troop of four aircraft at the point of IOC, with the other eight aircraft split between continued force generation and build-up training. Once FOC is achieved, the Australian Army would be capable of “generating multiple concurrent deployed forces of up to Squadron [12 aircraft] size,” supported by a training system of up to five aircraft.

The procurement programme is targeting a reduced risk approach, with the cover letter for the RfI noting that the acquisition is aimed at a “proven and mature, off-the-shelf” system to “deliver armed reconnaissance efforts in close and deep contested battlespace”.

The RfI is also seeking information on a platform’s interoperability with unmanned systems, particularly as the country is replacing its fleet of Textron RQ-7 Shadow 200 under the Land 129 Phase 3 programme, and is acquiring the General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc’s (GA-ASI’s) MQ-9 Reaper under Air 7003 programme.

https://www.janes.com/article/89761/australia-issues-rfi-for-tiger-helicopter-replacement
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: RDBZ on July 11, 2019, 03:28:40
With the ADF transitioning to a fully networked force, the lack of a defined and agreed upgrade path for the Tiger enabling it to operate effectively in that environment would have been reason enough for its replacement. 

The wording of the RFI seems pretty clear.
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Infanteer on July 11, 2019, 07:17:10
My Australian Army mates said they have a bad reputation.

I said "at least you have AH."
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Dimsum on July 11, 2019, 09:16:45
My Australian Army mates said they have a bad reputation.

I said "at least you have AH."

The Australians trying to out-self-deprecate the Canadians.  It was a losing battle from the start.   :nod:
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: LoboCanada on July 11, 2019, 10:44:34
Any bets on who will buy them?

Not necessarily for it, but i'm sure others could see
- Airbus presence in Qc for support contract $$$
- an actual capability gap
- not old (although never an issue for gov't)
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Infanteer on July 11, 2019, 13:20:58
You forgot to add:

- penchant for buying used Aussie crap.
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Spencer100 on July 11, 2019, 14:40:08
Armed Helicopters?  IN CANADA.....with this Government?  Never!  :rofl: I'm sure some of the time it took to get the Mali peacekeeping mission was that CAF told them we had to send the CH146 with door gunners to protect the Chinooks. 
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Dimsum on July 11, 2019, 15:41:48
Armed Helicopters?  IN CANADA.....with this Government?  Never!  :rofl: I'm sure some of the time it took to get the Mali peacekeeping mission was that CAF told them we had to send the CH146 with door gunners to protect the Chinooks.

Well, conveniently enough an election is around the corner.
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Spencer100 on July 16, 2019, 12:54:21
I don't think this the same RFI but MDHI pitching too

https://www.janes.com/article/89814/mdhi-offers-single-and-twin-engined-helicopters-for-australian-sof-role (https://www.janes.com/article/89814/mdhi-offers-single-and-twin-engined-helicopters-for-australian-sof-role)
Title: Re: Australia ditching Eurocopter Tiger gunships?
Post by: Spencer100 on August 30, 2019, 17:54:41
Airbus trying to stay in the game

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/205497/airbus-offers-‘cost_effective-tiger’-to-australian-army.html