Author Topic: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?  (Read 283934 times)

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Online Colin P

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #500 on: June 15, 2018, 14:51:08 »
Well we would get taken a lot more seriously

Offline Karel Doorman

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #501 on: June 15, 2018, 14:59:46 »
Well we would get taken a lot more seriously

Think that that will not be the only reason,but i could be wrong.(having SSN'S i mean),but it helps.Think it's a combination of what you have,training,experience, and how you are willing to use it:)
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Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #502 on: June 15, 2018, 17:58:28 »
Well i'm not Canadian,but from what i heard,SSN will never happen.So what should happen(in my humble opinion)is that Canada should(really)buy 8 new subs(4 on east coast and 4 an west coast),but Canada/RCN will be lucky if they get 4 replacements when the time has come to buy/build new ones. ;)

I agree. I think 8 is an attainable and useful number of SSK’s for the RCN. I’d even consider a stepped approach where all the VIC’s were out of Esquimalt and 4 new in Halifax for a period. Regardless, I’m dubious as to how serious the GoC really is about the Arctic. I’m often left with the feeling that they’d much rather look like they were doing something than actually doing something. And for that reason, I’d put money on not seeing an SSN in the RCN in my lifetime.

Offline Underway

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #503 on: June 15, 2018, 22:22:52 »
Going from the problems the UK is having just keeping their boats crewed it's probably lucky in many ways we don't have nuke boats.  They are using civilians for watches alongside because there are not enough sailors trained to do reactor watch.  Which of course leads to a whole other set of problems regarding showing up to work with a few wets, or just getting annoyed with the supervisor and calling in sick because you can an are unionized....

The cost and irritation would perhaps be too much for us.  You think protests against Kinder Morgan are bad....

Online Colin P

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #504 on: June 18, 2018, 11:40:04 »
The Arctic has few voters, so when it comes time to dole out money, the Arctic is far, far away.

Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #505 on: January 11, 2019, 13:09:11 »
Quote
Game changing mast installation underway on submarines
Peter Mallett, Staff Writer

HMCS Corner Brook will become the first of the Royal Canadian Navy’s (RCN) four Victoria-class submarines to be equipped with a new modern mast system.

The hunter-killer submarine is currently stationed in the purpose-built repair facility dock at Victoria Shipyards as workers from Babcock Canada install the L3 Calzoni Universal Modular Mast (UMM). The system, similar to the one fitted in U.S. Navy Virginia-class submarines was acquired under the U.S. Foreign Military Sales program.

Masts are vital to the functioning of any submarine. In Canada’s diesel-powered subs they provide air supply, communications, radar, and periscope capability.

Lieutenant-Commander Darryl Gervis, RCN Deputy Director Submarine Combat Systems, says the new technology puts Canada’s submarine program on a new course.

“This is a game changer,” said LCdr Gervis, referring to the current technological shortfall for Canadian subs, which is the lack of a reliable high-speed satellite data link.

“What the Universal Modular Mast [when coupled with the Protected Military Satellite Communication PMSC antenna] will do is provide near real-time high-speed [antenna] communications with the shore. This will allow for improved picture and video transmission, and quicker transmission of messages, and therefore reduce counter-detection opportunities as the submarine will spend less time with its mast out of the water.”

The new equipment will also include the ability to  “plug-and-play” a Communications Intercept Suite antenna that will provide the class that capability. This is because the Universal Modular Mast has two multi-purpose ports – like data ports on a computer. This will enable other antennas and intelligence-gathering equipment to be swapped in and out to better suit the needs of a specific deployment or changing technology.

Here in Esquimalt, Deputy Commander – Operations of Canadian Submarine Force, Commander Mike Mangin is encouraged by the upgrade and says the Universal Modular Mast with Protected Military Satellite Communication will bring Canadian submarine communications capabilities into the modern era.

“It improves the Victoria class as an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance platform,” said Cdr Mangin. “It increases our utility so much, the upgrades to the comms fit that UMM enables could be compared to using an old dial up modem to one of today’s high-speed modems.”

Corner Brook travelled from its home port of Halifax for the contractor conducted extended docking work period and is expected to be completed in 2020. Work is expected to commence on the UMM install in HMCS Chicoutimi in 2019, with subsequent work to be performed on HMCS Victoria and HMCS Windsor.

The plan is to have all four submarines retrofitted with the new equipment by 2026.

http://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/game-changing-mast-installation-underway-submarines/
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Offline MilEME09

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #507 on: January 11, 2019, 23:48:55 »
By 2026? By then we might get only a bit more life squeezed out of them. They need full on replacement started now so that the new subs can hopefully come online in time.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #508 on: January 12, 2019, 01:21:19 »
http://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/game-changing-mast-installation-underway-submarines/

I'm wondering if it helps to publish the technical capability upgrades of our submarines?

Loose lips (used to) sink ships, right?
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #509 on: January 12, 2019, 07:31:44 »
We do it with other assets as well;  everything about the Aurora upgrade project, including what sensors were installed, comms, etc was all made open source including the iBLOS (interim Beyond Line Of Sight) kit that was installed for OP IMPACT.

FWIW, this wasn't the first time it (comms upgrade) had been open source info. 

From this article:  https://ml-fd.caf-fac.ca/en/2018/05/13938

WARSHIPS International Fleet Review Special Correspondent Guy Toremans interviews the commander of the Royal Canadian Navy’s submarine force and learns how its boats are a significant strategic maritime security asset. After a turbulent introduction into Canadian service they are now demonstrating an ability to deploy around the world.

HMCS Corner Brook is currently at Victoria Shipyards Co. Ltd in Esquimalt, undergoing an Extended Docking Work Period (EDWP) under the Victoria In-service Support Contract with Babcock Canada Inc. She is due to return to operational service in 2019.

Corner Brook’s EDWP includes replacement of external structures and the sonar bow dome, a combat system upgrades, the ability to fire Mk48 Mod 7AT heavyweight torpedoes, BQQ-10 sonar suite, a modern satellite communications system and communications intercept capabilities.

This article was published in the June 2018 edition of WARSHIPS International Fleet Review magazine. Used with kind permission of the author, magazine Editor and publisher. For more on that publication visit www.warshipsifr.com
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Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #510 on: January 12, 2019, 09:28:17 »
Work on HMCS CORNER BROOK to be completed in 2020, while work on HMCS CHICOUTIMI to start in 2019. So back to having two unavailable for awhile then. That’s the trouble with only having 4 boats, maintenance takes half of your force sometimes.

Offline Underway

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #511 on: January 12, 2019, 09:37:06 »
I'm wondering if it helps to publish the technical capability upgrades of our submarines?

Loose lips (used to) sink ships, right?

It's not a big deal in that the exact capabilities of that equipment are still secret.  There's also the reasoning that our lips are not loose enough with regards to the submarines.  Unless we do good public education the subs will be sunk by our own government, which is their greatest threat at the moment.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #512 on: January 12, 2019, 10:05:13 »
The Corner Brook was supposed to be finished refit in 2018.  Then they said 2019 and now they are saying 2020.

Does the boat actually work still or is it totally knackered from the collision a few years ago and the Navy/Govt isn't saying anything about it?


Offline FSTO

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #513 on: January 12, 2019, 10:24:57 »
Work on HMCS CORNER BROOK to be completed in 2020, while work on HMCS CHICOUTIMI to start in 2019. So back to having two unavailable for awhile then. That’s the trouble with only having 4 boats, maintenance takes half of your force sometimes.

This has been the plan all along.
2 operational
1 going into EDWP
1 coming out of EDWP

It would be nice to have 6 boats but that would take some knowledge of Naval strategy within our governments...........

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #514 on: January 12, 2019, 10:42:06 »
This has been the plan all along.
2 operational
1 going into EDWP
1 coming out of EDWP

It would be nice to have 6 boats but that would take some knowledge of Naval strategy within our governments...........

CANSUBFOR calls it 2+1+1 right?

Offline YZT580

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #515 on: January 12, 2019, 13:11:44 »
And there were only 4 to begin with or does Australia have a couple we could pick up on the cheap?  Adding another two would mean an orphan fleet of two and the associated extra costs involved.  Better to plan to buy 6 next time or maybe 8 so we can cut two and show how we are saving money.

Online Colin P

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #516 on: January 12, 2019, 13:55:28 »
Apply for 8, hope to get 6, with 2 in maintenance/upgrade, 2 in training state and 2 operational. That would work.

Offline FSTO

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #517 on: January 12, 2019, 14:58:01 »
And there were only 4 to begin with or does Australia have a couple we could pick up on the cheap?  Adding another two would mean an orphan fleet of two and the associated extra costs involved.  Better to plan to buy 6 next time or maybe 8 so we can cut two and show how we are saving money.

No the four we received from the UK were unique to the UK. The Aussies had the Collins Class SSK which had their own teething problems. They are getting replaced by a new sub.

Once upon a time the UK/Canada/Australia all had Oberon Subs. But they are all gone now.

Online Colin P

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #518 on: January 14, 2019, 11:21:42 »
Our future choices are:

French/Aussie

Japanese

Stretched German

I suspect the first 2 will meet our needs, the Stretched German one might be on the small side.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #519 on: January 14, 2019, 12:17:05 »
Our future choices are:

French/Aussie

Japanese

Stretched German

I suspect the first 2 will meet our needs, the Stretched German one might be on the small side.

You left out "used subs from the West Edmonton Mall".
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Offline Karel Doorman

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #520 on: January 14, 2019, 12:25:45 »
Our future choices are:

French/Aussie

Japanese

Stretched German

I suspect the first 2 will meet our needs, the Stretched German one might be on the small side.


You forgot the A-26 ER. :whistle:

And i think(only a personal thought)that the Shortfin will be to big/expensive for Canada.
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Offline Uzlu

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #521 on: January 14, 2019, 12:39:44 »
And i think(only a personal thought)that the Shortfin will be to big/expensive for Canada.
Yes, it is big and expensive.  But it also appears to be a very impressive design.  https://www.naval-group.com/en/news/dcns-unveils-smx-ocean-a-new-blue-water-ssk-with-expanded-capabilities/

Online Colin P

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #522 on: January 14, 2019, 14:37:06 »
If our government had large balls, order 6 French Nuclear attack subs. France does all of the refueling and disposal. Other maintenance is done in Canada. Do not use an ITAR equipment in them if possible. We then told everyone including the US that we are serious about our sovereignty and Canada suddenly becomes a real player on the board. We would need 6 just to keep 2 subs on ops, 2 in training/workup and 2 in overhaul. 

Offline CBH99

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Re: Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
« Reply #523 on: January 14, 2019, 15:10:37 »
You left out "used subs from the West Edmonton Mall".


Those were taken out of service years ago.  Unfortunately.  =(
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Online Colin P

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