Topic: Vision Questions Megathread, Categories, Problems etc.

[Pre-flight]

Hello fellow members.

I finally decided to open an account and ask a question that has been bothering me since I decided that I wanted to join the CF.

Currently I'm in High School, I graduate next year. Just a brief background story of where I am and where I want to be in the future. I love my country and I've always wanted to serve so since Grade 9 I've been reading a lot of information about the CF, the requirements and BMQ. I love computers, one of my passions and hobby is programming. I love to code and design things so I was thinking maybe I could put my skills to a great use and serve my country. Only problem is that I had a major eye surgery when I was 5 y/o. I was born with Cataracts so they doctors decided to remove the lenses from both eyes. Ever since the surgery I've used glasses. I would like to mention that I'm not blind, without the glasses I can see but not with great details. I can run, exercise without glasses but I cannot 100% dsitnguish faces from far away. With glasses I can perfectly see things in great details.

My biggest concern. Getting auto disqualified and I'm pretty sad about this. I want to join the CF so badly, I want to work hard and gain experience in the field.

Have anyone heard any similar stories? Should I be concerned?

Any info would help.

Thanks!

There's lots of trades with lower vision requirements. Like said before, as long as your eye issues aren't degenerative then you do the test and see how you score, but again, a lot of trades I've seen people that look more like Bubbles from Trailer Park Boys and they seem to do fine.

[dingpiano]

I've checked the CAF's vision requirements found at: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/cf-visual-acuity-testing-instructions.page. From the uncorrected and corrected vision columns, I should be a V4. However, on the Refractive Error (Rx) column, it says the BETTER eye must be below +/- 7.00. One of my eyes is below -7.00 (using their sphere + 0.5*cylinder formula), but one is above. Would that still be okay since it says better eye, or would one eye being above -7.00 automatically drop me to a V5? Thank you!

-AD

[paleomedic]

No one can answer for sure except the RMO.
Even if WE said sure you are OK, the RMO could turn around and say no.
Also make sure your trade accepts V4. While the common enrolment standards say V4, infantry needs V3, for example. So even if you get in with V4, some trades are not acceptable with your vision.

[Classy021]

2 Questions:

1. I have v4 vision and applied for infantry, my CFAT is in 3 days. What is the possibility of an exception for the vision standards?

2. Does reserve infantry have the same visual acuity standards as regular force?

I don't know if I'm wasting my time. Hoping to get corrective surgery soon but I'm 19 and unsure if I'm eligible for that yet.

[medicineman]

2 Questions:

1. I have v4 vision and applied for infantry, my CFAT is in 3 days. What is the possibility of an exception for the vision standards?

2. Does reserve infantry have the same visual acuity standards as regular force?

I don't know if I'm wasting my time. Hoping to get corrective surgery soon but I'm 19 and unsure if I'm eligible for that yet.

2 Answers - 1.  No.  2.  Yes.

If you're unsure about the eye surgery, talk to your optometrist or most LASIK places do free consultations - talk to them.

MM

[Dok_kaebi]

I've recently done my medical exam and interview to join the Canadian Forces. Everyone seems to check out but my vision isn't the best. I have done to an optometrist in a while. My current vision is ~ 20/30, will this effect my acceptance?

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[Speedalive]

You can be V2, laser corrected, or probably even both.

Has anybody actually been taken on as a pilot with V2 vision + corrective lenses since the RCAF relaxed the vision standards?

I currently fall into the V2 category with 6/7.5 (refractive error -0.625) in one eye and around 6/12-15 in the other (refractive error -1.0). Both eyes are 6/6 combined though. I don't require glasses to fly in the civilian world and have no restrictions on my civvy CPL/cat 1 medical, however I would need correction to fly in the CF with V2.

I guess I'll find out for sure when the medical comes around, but man is it ever making me nervous. I have prescription glasses which bring both of my eyes to better than 6/6 which means my vision and corrective lenses are technically acceptable, but I haven't read about a success story from somebody with slightly imperfect vision corrected with glasses yet.

[mariomike]

Has anybody actually been taken on as a pilot with V2 vision + corrective lenses since the RCAF relaxed the vision standards?

I currently fall into the V2 category with 6/7.5 (refractive error -0.625) in one eye and around 6/12-15 in the other (refractive error -1.0). Both eyes are 6/6 combined though. I don't require glasses to fly in the civilian world and have no restrictions on my civvy CPL/cat 1 medical, however I would need correction to fly in the CF with V2.

I guess I'll find out for sure when the medical comes around, but man is it ever making me nervous. I have prescription glasses which bring both of my eyes to better than 6/6 which means my vision and corrective lenses are technically acceptable, but I haven't read about a success story from somebody with slightly imperfect vision corrected with glasses yet.

For reference,

Vision Questions Megathread, Categories, Problems etc.
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=432.700
31 pages.

Pilot vision
https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&biw=1280&bih=603&ei=hXmcW9KSH6a9jwS0oZjAAQ&q=site%3Aarmy.ca++pilot+vision&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca++pilot+vision&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.21143.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.0FnR9L2Dgk0

As always, Recruiting ( Medical ) is your most trusted source of information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."

[Speedalive]

For reference,

Vision Questions Megathread, Categories, Problems etc.
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=432.700
31 pages.

Pilot vision
https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&biw=1280&bih=603&ei=hXmcW9KSH6a9jwS0oZjAAQ&q=site%3Aarmy.ca++pilot+vision&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca++pilot+vision&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.21143.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.0FnR9L2Dgk0

As always, Recruiting ( Medical ) is your most trusted source of information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."

Hi Mario,

I know the eyesight topic has been beaten to death, but I've read through every eyesight thread I could find to try and get an answer to my question before posting here, to no avail.

On the CF pilot website, it says "Applicants who wear glasses, contacts, or have had certain types of laser refractive surgery to improve their vision may apply for the Pilot occupation. However, Radial Keratotomy or corneal reshaping procedures are not approved for Pilots" (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/career-options/fields-work/air-ship-crew/pilot.html) and on this page, it says that pilots need V2 vision or better (assuming the "V" column is for vision): http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/officer-ncm-minimum-medical-standards.page. A few posts on this forum seem to support this, but not a lot.

According to the CF website, V2 vision means that the applicants visual acuity must be 6/18 or 6/12 or better in the good eye, and up to 6/18 or 6/30 in the other eye (there's two columns so I put both options). It also says that the eyes must be corrected to 6/6 for the good eye 6/9 for the other eye. The refractive error must not exceed plus or minus 7.00 dioptres (+/– 7.00 D) spherical equivalent in the better eye.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/cf-visual-acuity-testing-instructions.page. So if the CF accepts pilots with V2 vision, this implies that they technically accept people who need vision correction, which correlates with what they state on the CF Pilot website.

My confusion stems from reading the posts on this forum. Almost every thread, including the ones you linked me to, state that you either need perfect vision (V1) or you need to get lasik surgery to make the eyes perfect or you won't make it through the medical.  So if that's the case, why would they go on and say that applicants who have V2 visual acuity (read: wear glasses) can apply? I don't know what to believe.

[PuckChaser]

You really need to talk to Recruiting.

The minimum medical standards are uncorrected vision. I was a V4 without glasses until I got LASIK and my vision category was changed to V1. If the CAF website says V2 for pilot, then yes, they'll accept people who need some sort of vision correction.

[kev994]

This has changed a lot (gotten more lenient) in the last few years, so like he says, you should talk to a recruiter vice relying on a post from several years ago.

[Speedalive]

You really need to talk to Recruiting.

The minimum medical standards are uncorrected vision. I was a V4 without glasses until I got LASIK and my vision category was changed to V1. If the CAF website says V2 for pilot, then yes, they'll accept people who need some sort of vision correction.

See that's what confuses me. You can't have V2 visual acuity and uncorrected vision at the same time, unless I'm misunderstanding something . Maybe there's more to it than what they detailed on the website.

I'll head down to the recruiting office and see if I can get some clarification. Thanks guys! Might be worth it just going to do the lasik in the end. I wouldn't mind having perfect vision again.. I just don't like the idea of being the unlucky 0.1% that they screw up on..

[SupersonicMax]

See that's what confuses me. You can't have V2 visual acuity and uncorrected vision at the same time, unless I'm misunderstanding something . Maybe there's more to it than what they detailed on the website.

I'll head down to the recruiting office and see if I can get some clarification. Thanks guys! Might be worth it just going to do the lasik in the end. I wouldn't mind having perfect vision again.. I just don't like the idea of being the unlucky 0.1% that they screw up on..

Uncorrected as in you do the test and get V2, without your prescription.  It has to be corrected to V1 (ie: with your prescription, you get V1)

[commander-cb]

I remember  if I remember correctly,I was encouraged to apply.
My age is a problem,  but I am still wanting to join. According to regs I am just a few months too old to apply for . P.L.T.

I am going to make a final push  to join, and am wondering about people's opinion on getting a age waiver for p.l.t

Is there any precedent, or am I completely delusional.

I think I know the answer......lol

[PuckChaser]

You're delusional. The CAF is not going to spend millions of dollars to train you, but not get an adequate work return. If you want to join the CAF, another trade would be happy to have you. If you want to fly, wander over to your local airport and pay for flying lessons.

[SupersonicMax]

The issue is not so much your capacity to make it as a pilot but rather your capacity to legally fulfill your obligatory service before reaching CRA.  I doubt you’ll get a waiver for that.

[Speedalive]

Uncorrected as in you do the test and get V2, without your prescription.  It has to be corrected to V1 (ie: with your prescription, you get V1)

I worded that poorly, sorry Max! What I meant to say is that if the minimum medical standards are indeed uncorrected vision, how could one possibly qualify with V2 visual acuity, which requires correction? Hopefully I can get some clarification from the recruiter tomorrow.

[SupersonicMax]

I worded that poorly, sorry Max! What I meant to say is that if the minimum medical standards are indeed uncorrected vision, how could one possibly qualify with V2 visual acuity, which requires correction? Hopefully I can get some clarification from the recruiter tomorrow.

Re-read what I said.

What it means: when you do the visual acuity test without your prescription, you must meet V2 standard.  When you do it with your prescription, you must meet V1.  Hence: uncorrected V2.

[Speedalive]

Re-read what I said.

What it means: when you do the visual acuity test without your prescription, you must meet V2 standard.  When you do it with your prescription, you must meet V1.  Hence: uncorrected V2.

I definitely misinterpreted what you were saying. Thank you for the clarification

[StreetLamp]

Does anyone know the CF's stance on the following type of laser refractive surgery:

 - Small incision lenticule extraction (SMILE) [originally called Femtosecond lenticule extraction (FLEx)]?

It's a refractive surgery available for those with either thin corneas and/or higher prescriptions (ones that can't be fully corrected by LASIK or PRK).

[LimaPapa]

Does anyone know the CF's stance on the following type of laser refractive surgery:

 - Small incision lenticule extraction (SMILE) [originally called Femtosecond lenticule extraction (FLEx)]?

It's a refractive surgery available for those with either thin corneas and/or higher prescriptions (ones that can't be fully corrected by LASIK or PRK).

Recommended Procedures

6. Acceptable refractive surgery procedures for serving CF pilots are as follows: Wavefront
Guided (WFG) Photorefractive Keratectomy (PRK), WFG surface ablation procedures such as
LASEK and Epi-LASIK and WFG Laser Assisted In-Situ Keratomileusis (LASIK).
The best options for creating the flap should be discussed with the surgeon, including current
generation mechanical keratome or femtosecond laser.

7. Conventional (non WFG) refractive surgery and LASIK using a mechanical keratome are
not recommended for pilots but may be acceptable for non-pilot aircrew.

Non-Approved Procedures

8. Radial Keratotomy (RK) is not approved for entry to, or transfer within, the CF.

9. Corneal reshaping with contact lenses is not a form of refractive surgery, however it has
been addressed in this directive as it may be offered as an alternative to refractive surgery.
Orthokeratology (Ortho-K) and corneal refractive therapy (CRT) are procedures using special
rigid gas permeable contact lenses to reshape the cornea for the temporary reduction of myopia.
Ortho-K and CRT are not acceptable procedures for any CF Aircrew.

10. All other refractive procedures including Intrastromal Corneal Ring Segments (ICRS),
thermal keratotomy and incisional astigmatic keratotomy are not acceptable procedures for any
CF Aircrew.

--

Hope that helps but I don't see SMILE or FLEX listed.

If still unsure I'd check with a medical technician

[Jiminito]

Help. RMO sent me a letter rejecting my application because I have severe refractory error with a spherical equivalent > -7.00. They said it's based on principle of universality. Anyone been through this? What are my options from here on?
I'm not too keen on getting Lasik right now.

[jaqen]

Help. RMO sent me a letter rejecting my application because I have severe refractory error with a spherical equivalent > -7.00. They said it's based on principle of universality. Anyone been through this? What are my options from here on?
I'm not too keen on getting Lasik right now.

I think your options are limited. You have to improve your unaided vision somehow and the only way to do that is through Lasik. So it's either lasik or no CF.

[Ashkan08]

Does anyone know how bad your eyesight must be to fall within V4 and V5 vision? All there is for v4 vision on the CAF website is that it is worse than 6/60 but it does not say just how much worse it can be. Would -5.0 vision still fall within V4 vision?

[paleomedic]

Does anyone know how bad your eyesight must be to fall within V4 and V5 vision? All there is for v4 vision on the CAF website is that it is worse than 6/60 but it does not say just how much worse it can be. Would -5.0 vision still fall within V4 vision?

Actually if you read a bit further on that page it say your dioptres cannot be worse than +/- 7.00. -5 is not worse than -7 so in theory you would be ok.