Author Topic: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged  (Read 170048 times)

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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #550 on: November 10, 2017, 10:08:06 »
There is an online tool at the industry Canada website that lets you investigate trademarks and copyrights. http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/home?lang=eng

Green centred poppy: http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/viewTrademark?id=0980289&lang=eng&tab=reg

Black centred poppy: http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/viewTrademark?id=1094997&lang=eng&tab=reg

The legion loves to send letters to whoever they feel is violating their trademark, even when they don't have a chance of bringing them to court. That means someone selling beaded poppies for a fund raiser or whatever else legion members report to Dominion Command on. In truth they own the trademark to that exact poppy but they interpret that to mean any poppy, including the British legion poppy in Canada.

They claim to be the keepers of the poppy symbol but did you see some of the crap the sell at the legion poppy store.

https://www.poppystore.ca/



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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #551 on: November 10, 2017, 11:49:42 »
I believe Mother Nature copyrighted the Poppy design used by the Wounded Warriors, she won't mind it's use there.  The RCL should be told to go pound sand up their greedy backsides.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #552 on: November 10, 2017, 16:31:56 »
Maybe not the best time of year to ask, but long term, as the RCL represents less and less actual veterans, does anyone think there will be an alternative for members wearing RCL poppies?

With their petty pursuits of the trademark against non-profits, schools, and random internet forums, and the lack of financial accountability, I'd rather give my money to different organizations that actually support veterans, or wear one of the alternate poppies like the Aboriginal Veterans beaded ones.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #553 on: November 10, 2017, 16:48:40 »
Quote from: Navy Pete


With their petty pursuits of the trademark against non-profits, schools, and random internet forums

Don't forget mothers of fallen soldiers.
Quote
and the lack of financial accountability

Since the RCL can request CAF members at events and soldiers are being paid (and ordered) to go the RCL should have 100% transparency with their finances, IF in fact they don't.

The RCL maneuvered themselves in to having the molopopy on rememberence day ceremonies and really remembrance day itself.  It's bad when I seen a poppy painted in the window of a restaurant today and my first thought was I wonder if they had to ask the legion permission to paint it.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 17:19:51 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #554 on: November 10, 2017, 17:13:23 »
They do post their finances on their website, as per the standard non-profit requirements, but their poppy fund seems to be outside of their operational budget. Also, I don't trust that all the money that goes in the boxes gets accounted for and assume some gets skimmed.

I'm torn though; there are still enough Korean era veterans out and about with the poppies that I donate when they are there, regardless of whether or not I already have a poppy.  I just wish the Dominion weren't such a flaming group of arseclowns, and that they hadn't sold us down the line by supporting the NVC. Not really sure how to support some of the members without inadvertently supporting the Legion, which lost it's way decades ago.

It's difficult in that I think regularly the sacrifice that past generations have made, and people still make today, but really dislike that it's been co-opted by the largely civilian RCL. Thousands of Canadians didn't lay down their lives storming the beaches so some group of numpties could sell (poor representations of) poppies made in China and bully people trying to raise money for actual veterans. At some point it will come to a head, their trademark will get squashed, and the money that should have been used for what it was meant for will be gone.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #555 on: November 10, 2017, 18:16:29 »
So if I went to Flanders and took a photograph of poppies which I subsequently used on my own printed material, would I violate their copyright?
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #556 on: November 10, 2017, 18:33:00 »
Love to see them claim copyright over nature.  Nature was there first.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #557 on: November 10, 2017, 19:10:16 »
It's actually Chief Stoker who is the closest to the truth, but the Legion bullies people in thinking otherwise and they relent to avoid the threatened bad press of appearing to be going against "veterans" (as the Legion thinks of itself).

Trade marks protect the exact and specific mark that has been registered or  anything that is trying to mimic it closely enough to cause confusion of the mark. It does not, and especially with something that is otherwise a common object of specific meaning, protect against all such objects being used by someone else nor does it protect the meaning of the object.

For instance, Dove soap has a specific dove design trademarked, but they cannot stop anybody else using a dove - not of that design or close to it -to convey purity, or peace. No more than Apple can prevent people from using the word apple or photos/drawings of apples in their publicity so long as it causes no confusion with their trademarked logo.

So the Legion has no right to prevent people using drawings in general of poppies, or even less so actual pictures of poppies, so long as their design falls sufficiently far enough from their own design to avoid confusion with theirs, nor can they sue anyone merely for using  such other poppies in an association to remembrance of war dead.

For instance, I could make a site dedicated to Canadian soldiers who died in Afghanistan and start it, at the top with a title printed on top of a full width picture of a field of blooming poppies, and there is nothing the Legion could do successfully to contest such use. Similarly, I could take a picture of fields of poppies in bloom and print and sell ties made with the picture and they would be up schitt creek the same way. This is even more so when you consider (and court would!) that the association of the poppy with remembrance of the war dead did not originate with the Legion, but with John MacRae's poem.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #558 on: November 10, 2017, 19:17:33 »
It's actually Chief Stoker who is the closest to the truth, but the Legion bullies people in thinking otherwise and they relent to avoid the threatened bad press of appearing to be going against "veterans" (as the Legion thinks of itself).

Trade marks protect the exact and specific mark that has been registered or  anything that is trying to mimic it closely enough to cause confusion of the mark. It does not, and especially with something that is otherwise a common object of specific meaning, protect against all such objects being used by someone else nor does it protect the meaning of the object.

For instance, Dove soap has a specific dove design trademarked, but they cannot stop anybody else using a dove - not of that design or close to it -to convey purity, or peace. No more than Apple can prevent people from using the word apple or photos/drawings of apples in their publicity so long as it causes no confusion with their trademarked logo.

So the Legion has no right to prevent people using drawings in general of poppies, or even less so actual pictures of poppies, so long as their design falls sufficiently far enough from their own design to avoid confusion with theirs, nor can they sue anyone merely for using  such other poppies in an association to remembrance of war dead.

For instance, I could make a site dedicated to Canadian soldiers who died in Afghanistan and start it, at the top with a title printed on top of a full width picture of a field of blooming poppies, and there is nothing the Legion could do successfully to contest such use. Similarly, I could take a picture of fields of poppies in bloom and print and sell ties made with the picture and they would be up schitt creek the same way. This is even more so when you consider (and court would!) that the association of the poppy with remembrance of the war dead did not originate with the Legion, but with John MacRae's poem.

The challenge coin company Sharkzcoins did a number of coins with their version of the poppy on it, which is different from the trademarked ones. Because its different the legion hasn't a legal leg to stand on. The average person when faced with a legal letter saying they should cease and desist, is going to do it. This is what the legion counts on.
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #559 on: November 10, 2017, 19:38:43 »
paracord poppy, pin backed and bulletproof. Pucker up and plant one, poppy police.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

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Offline Tcm621

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #560 on: November 13, 2017, 00:53:21 »
paracord poppy, pin backed and bulletproof. Pucker up and plant one, poppy police.
If you know where I could find how to make one of those, I'd be grateful.

Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #561 on: November 13, 2017, 11:27:25 »
The legion loves to send letters to whoever they feel is violating their trademark, even when they don't have a chance of bringing them to court. That means someone selling beaded poppies for a fund raiser or whatever else legion members report to Dominion Command on. In truth they own the trademark to that exact poppy but they interpret that to mean any poppy, including the British legion poppy in Canada.

They claim to be the keepers of the poppy symbol but did you see some of the crap the sell at the legion poppy store.

https://www.poppystore.ca/

Holy crap that's alot of poppy crap there...
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Offline Pusser

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #562 on: November 15, 2017, 12:28:27 »
If you know where I could find how to make one of those, I'd be grateful.

Ashley's Book of Knots (available on line I believe).  The poppy knot depicted is a flattened turk's head.
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #563 on: November 15, 2017, 12:56:01 »
It’s a four bight, three lead turkshead. The centre is the same knot in smaller cord. Flatten them out, glue one on top of the other and stick a back on it.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Pusser

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #564 on: November 16, 2017, 09:45:19 »
It’s a four bight, three lead turkshead. The centre is the same knot in smaller cord. Flatten them out, glue one on top of the other and stick a back on it.

Now you're just showing off.  Most pongoes heads exploded when I just said it was a turk's head...
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #565 on: November 16, 2017, 12:47:11 »
Now you're just showing off.  Most pongoes heads exploded when I just said it was a turk's head...

No, they didn't.  We were just a little jealous thinking about our forebearers in the early part of the last century who could actually "flatten a Turk's head" . . . probably with a shovel or some other implement of war.


Edited to add

And a turkshead is also known as a "woggle knot".  Should be familiar to any former Boy Scouts, though you only got to wear it after the Wood Badge.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 13:06:53 by Blackadder1916 »
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Offline Pusser

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #566 on: November 16, 2017, 14:59:05 »
And a turkshead is also known as a "woggle knot".  Should be familiar to any former Boy Scouts, though you only got to wear it after the Wood Badge.

Correct.  I have one too.
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged
« Reply #567 on: November 16, 2017, 19:29:31 »
It’s a four bight, three lead turkshead. The centre is the same knot in smaller cord. Flatten them out, glue one on top of the other and stick a back on it.
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