Author Topic: The US Presidency 2020  (Read 116126 times)

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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1025 on: September 23, 2020, 20:45:09 »
It will be interestig to see the if the results of DOJ investigations into the rioting bear fruit early enough to influence the election. This tweet shows a video of a parked U-Haul van being descended upon and being unloaded of premade signs and other supplies for a "mostly peaceful" demonstration. This certainly speaks of higher level coordination, planning and resources - the question is "from whom"?

Of course any investigation needs to find sufficient evidence to establish linkages as a "balance of probabilities" for civil cases, and "beyond a reasonable doubt" for criminal cases. One can only hope this can be done quickly for the sake of the suffering people in the affected American cities:

https://twitter.com/ShelbyTalcott/status/1308829371185139712

I doubt it.  I think we are in the entrenched phase.  It’s about getting out the vote now.  How motivated both sides are to go vote against the other guy.
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Offline QV

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1026 on: September 25, 2020, 13:14:04 »
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/09/trumps-underappreciated-foreign-policy/

These are the things most of the MSM don't want you to hear about.

Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1027 on: September 25, 2020, 13:52:13 »
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/09/trumps-underappreciated-foreign-policy/

These are the things most of the MSM don't want you to hear about.

The article brings up very valid points but it highlights that what a President does at home can override all the good he does abroad.   

When times are tough at home, deal with things outside the country.  Trudeau did that exact thing before the last election when plagued by scandals.
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Offline Donald H

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1028 on: September 25, 2020, 14:31:53 »
The article brings up very valid points but it highlights that what a President does at home can override all the good he does abroad.   

When times are tough at home, deal with things outside the country.  Trudeau did that exact thing before the last election when plagued by scandals.

I would suggest that Trump's foreign policy successes are illusions being promoted for political purposes. And the very title of the story blows me away in disgust!

Trump’s Underappreciated Foreign Policy

Nothing he does even comes close to the Democrats' claim of his unrelenting buddying up with Russia/Putin.

Discuss each apparent accomplishment in turn for a thorough discussion of the suggestion. Or just wait until after the election for the facts to come out, regardless of whether he wins or loses.

 :cheers:
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1029 on: September 25, 2020, 14:41:43 »
>Discuss each apparent accomplishment in turn for a thorough discussion of the suggestion.

What's been done speaks for itself.  As you wrote, "the Democrats' claim of his unrelenting buddying up with Russia/Putin."  The onus is on you to prove the "claim".  Don't waste time with the handful of favourable remarks about Putin that Trump has made; those are just fluff.  Provide examples of how the Trump administration's foreign policy regularly supports and favours Russia economically, diplomatically, and militarily.
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Offline Donald H

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1030 on: September 25, 2020, 14:47:36 »
>Discuss each apparent accomplishment in turn for a thorough discussion of the suggestion.

What's been done speaks for itself.  As you wrote, "the Democrats' claim of his unrelenting buddying up with Russia/Putin."  The onus is on you to prove the "claim".  Don't waste time with the handful of favourable remarks about Putin that Trump has made; those are just fluff.  Provide examples of how the Trump administration's foreign policy regularly supports and favours Russia economically, diplomatically, and militarily.

If that's your choice of the question to analyze then maybe we can do that. I'm willing. But I feel that the choice isn't yours, it's QV's or Remius's I would suggest. Be patient.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1031 on: September 25, 2020, 14:54:37 »
Just saving time.  Whatever it is you want to "suggest" or propagandize, go ahead and substantiate it.  Ball's in your court.
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Offline QV

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1032 on: September 28, 2020, 14:00:43 »
If that's your choice of the question to analyze then maybe we can do that. I'm willing. But I feel that the choice isn't yours, it's QV's or Remius's I would suggest. Be patient.

Mueller with all his vast power as Special Counsel couldn't find Trump colluded with Russia.  Make no mistake, there was collusion with Russia, but it wasn't Trump. 

Quote
In an effort to depict Donald Trump as if he were in an espionage conspiracy with the Kremlin, the Obama administration used bogus information, from a man the FBI suspected was an actual Russian spy, to brand as a suspected Russian spy a former U.S. naval intelligence officer who had actually been a CIA informant.  Your head spinning? Mine too.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/09/steeles-dossier-source-was-a-suspected-russian-spy/

Offline Donald H

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1033 on: September 28, 2020, 14:22:09 »
Mueller with all his vast power as Special Counsel couldn't find Trump colluded with Russia.  Make no mistake, there was collusion with Russia, but it wasn't Trump. 
 https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/09/steeles-dossier-source-was-a-suspected-russian-spy/

Yes, there was collusion and crimes committed by a half dozen or more of Trump's close associates and 6 or so were found guilty and punished. I think that Trump would have also been convicted of related crimes too and punished accordingly has he not been protected by him being the president.

In America there are many laws that don't apply to the president.

If Trump loses the presidency I think he could be charged with some of those crimes, but it's not certain. America has a tendency to forgive and forget their outgoing president's crimes.

Bush2 and Iraq would be one of the best examples!
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Offline QV

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1034 on: September 28, 2020, 14:57:24 »
Yes, there was collusion and crimes committed by a half dozen or more of Trump's close associates and 6 or so were found guilty and punished. I think that Trump would have also been convicted of related crimes too and punished accordingly has he not been protected by him being the president.

In America there are many laws that don't apply to the president.

If Trump loses the presidency I think he could be charged with some of those crimes, but it's not certain. America has a tendency to forgive and forget their outgoing president's crimes.

Bush2 and Iraq would be one of the best examples!

If after all this time you are still locked on that fallacy then I know you are not read into this and any further discussion on this topic will be pointless. 

Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1035 on: September 28, 2020, 15:08:57 »
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Offline Donald H

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1036 on: September 28, 2020, 15:10:22 »
If after all this time you are still locked on that fallacy then I know you are not read into this and any further discussion on this topic will be pointless.

O.k. and so even though I think you are wrong I will move on.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
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Offline shawn5o

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1037 on: September 28, 2020, 15:20:29 »
Yes, there was collusion and crimes committed by a half dozen or more of Trump's close associates and 6 or so were found guilty and punished. I think that Trump would have also been convicted of related crimes too and punished accordingly has he not been protected by him being the president.

In America there are many laws that don't apply to the president.

If Trump loses the presidency I think he could be charged with some of those crimes, but it's not certain. America has a tendency to forgive and forget their outgoing president's crimes.

Bush2 and Iraq would be one of the best examples!

Don

So sorry but you're wrong!

The ones who got charged, convicted, etc had nothing to do  with trump
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Offline Donald H

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1038 on: September 28, 2020, 15:22:36 »
Chris Hedges, a very well known award winning journalist with his analysis of the current situation in America and his predictioins that come across as about the worst I've heard so far. Hedges isn't the type that beats around the bush and that's gained him a lot of both love and hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em2aWT2T4E0

He nails it on about 90% of it in my opinion but can be criticized on the remaining 10%.

Not a very optimistic view for the future.

One point being made by Hedges on the Corona virus that may be questionable is his predictions of 300,000 Americans dead and then later 400,000? It's a risky prediction at best but I wouldn't bet against him, knowing his track record.

And of special interest to me is his opinion of Biden, which I am pretty convinced is correct. Sadly so.

Opinions?

It would be reassuring at least to hear somebody put down some or even one of his points with a specific convincing argument.
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1039 on: September 28, 2020, 19:41:55 »
Don

So sorry but you're wrong!

The ones who got charged, convicted, etc had nothing to do  with trump

Sorry Shawn, but you're wrong:

Paul Manafort: Donald Trumps Presidential campaign manager from June to August 2016.

General (ret'd) Mike Flynn was Trumps National Security Advisor, albeit for a very short time.
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1040 on: September 28, 2020, 20:12:32 »
Breaking news involving Brad Parscale, Trumps former campaign manager. I wasn't sure which thread to post it to, whether, here or under the Presidential election thread or even the WTF! thread. Mods can move as they see fit.

Quote
Police: Friend convinced Trump ex-campaign boss to surrender

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — A standoff between South Florida police and President Donald Trump’s former campaign manager Brad Parscale ended after an officer who was friends with Parscale convinced him to surrender, officials said.

September 29, 2020

Fort Lauderdale Officer Christopher Wilson wrote in a report that he had just finished a shift Sunday evening when a mutual friend called him and told him that a SWAT team was at Parscale's home, and he was refusing to come out. When Wilson arrived at the Fort Lauderdale home, he was able to persuade Parscale to come outside. Body camera footage released Monday shows officers rushing Parscale and knocking him to the ground before taking him into custody.

The standoff started earlier Sunday after Parscale's wife fled the home and asked for help from a real estate agent showing a nearby house, officials said. They called 911, and officers responded. The wife told officers that Parscale had been stressed out recently and that he had made comments about shooting himself, according to a police report. Investigators said 10 guns were later removed from the home. The wife also said that Parscale drinks and suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder.

One of the responding officers reported that he witnessed bruising on the wife's arm and face. She told him that the injuries had come from an altercation with Parscale earlier that week, according to the police report. The officer called Parscale and asked him to leave the house unarmed, but the report said Parscale remained in the home for about an hour, until Wilson arrived and convinced him to come outside.

Parscale was hospitalized Sunday under the state’s Baker Act. That act allows anyone deemed to be a threat to themselves or others to be detained for 72 hours for psychiatric evaluation. Parscale was demoted from the campaign manager's post in July but remained part of the campaign, helping run its digital operation.

Standing 6’8” and with a distinctive beard, Parscale had become a celebrity to Trump supporters and would frequently pose for photos and sign autographs ahead of campaign rallies. But Trump had begun to sour on him earlier this year as Parscale attracted a wave of media attention that included focus on his seemingly glitzy lifestyle on the Florida coast that kept him far from campaign headquarters in Virginia.

Over the summer, he hyped a million ticket requests for the president’s comeback rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, that ended up drawing just 6,000 people. A furious Trump was left staring at a sea of empty seats and, weeks later, promoted Bill Stepien to campaign manager.

Parscale was originally hired to run Trump’s 2016 campaign by Jared Kushner, the president’s powerful son-in-law. While the Republican National Committee owns most of the campaign’s data, voter modeling and outreach tools, Parscale ran most of the microtargeted online advertising that Trump aides believe was key to his victory four years ago.

Under the state's Red Flag Law, officials could ask a judge to bar Parscale from possessing any weapons for up to a year.

Link
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1041 on: September 28, 2020, 20:26:29 »
Breaking news involving Brad Parscale, Trumps former campaign manager.

Bodycam video, if interested,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqapk4tFNyM
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Offline QV

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1042 on: September 28, 2020, 20:45:15 »
Sorry Shawn, but you're wrong:

Paul Manafort: Donald Trumps Presidential campaign manager from June to August 2016.

General (ret'd) Mike Flynn was Trumps National Security Advisor, albeit for a very short time.

Maybe do some more reading on those two. 

Offline Brihard

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1043 on: September 28, 2020, 22:47:45 »
Maybe do some more reading on those two.

Not liking that a number of Trump’s associates and cronies have been charged, tried, and convicted of criminal offences, with more still making their way through the system, doesn’t make it not true. Sorry, but your boy surrounded yourself with some less than reputable individuals. I’m sure you can ‘what about’ th hell out of this and refer us to some podcasts, but that does not erase the plethora of varying criminal charges late and the mounting pile of convictions from his inner circle. It appears that he’s very fortunate to enjoy some of the u inquest legal protections extended to the presidency. His corporate and... ‘charity’... ventures suggest that he may not be entirely squeaky clean.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline QV

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1044 on: September 28, 2020, 23:36:47 »
When they prove Trump colluded with Russia or committed any other treasonous act, I will capitulate and be happy to see him dealt with, but that hasn’t happened. Manafort’s fraud from years before Trump are not relevant to the Russia collusion hoax and you know it.  Flynn as incoming NSA had every right to speak with foreign reps. The Flynn case has unravelled and revealed how the former admin directed the hit job.

When you’re willing to discuss the very real crimes committed by the former administration, investigation ongoing and expanding, I’m happy to engage.  I thought you’d be quite interested and critical of the abuses by high level LE and other people in authoritative positions, yet you ignore that part.

Your boy Mueller with the vast powers as a special counsel and unlimited resources failed to find anything on Trump that was even impeachable let alone criminally liable. Think about that. If Trump had farted in the wrong direction they’d be stringing him up (impeachment confirmed by senate, resign, criminal liability). If there was criminal culpability, Mueller would have reported that so Pelosi had the ammunition to impeach.  Nothing like that happened.

When you’re willing to talk about something more substantive than an obvious hit piece by the Atlantic or NY Times, let’s do it.

Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1045 on: September 29, 2020, 06:31:15 »
When they prove Trump colluded with Russia or committed any other treasonous act, I will capitulate and be happy to see him dealt with, but that hasn’t happened. Manafort’s fraud from years before Trump are not relevant to the Russia collusion hoax and you know it.  Flynn as incoming NSA had every right to speak with foreign reps. The Flynn case has unravelled and revealed how the former admin directed the hit job.

When you’re willing to discuss the very real crimes committed by the former administration, investigation ongoing and expanding, I’m happy to engage.  I thought you’d be quite interested and critical of the abuses by high level LE and other people in authoritative positions, yet you ignore that part.

Your boy Mueller with the vast powers as a special counsel and unlimited resources failed to find anything on Trump that was even impeachable let alone criminally liable. Think about that. If Trump had farted in the wrong direction they’d be stringing him up (impeachment confirmed by senate, resign, criminal liability). If there was criminal culpability, Mueller would have reported that so Pelosi had the ammunition to impeach.  Nothing like that happened.

When you’re willing to talk about something more substantive than an obvious hit piece by the Atlantic or NY Times, let’s do it.

A republican senate would never have impeached even if there was video of Trump shooting someone.  You know that. 

Regardless of any evidence, his supporters will never believe anything as everything is fake news, a hit piece or made up. 

The latest piece only reinforces the fraud Trump is and how solid his base is in believing him regardless.

The expression here applies very well to Trump supporters:

“It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they’ve been fooled.”



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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1046 on: September 29, 2020, 07:07:58 »
I guess one could also apply that saying to those whom believe modern-day media is actually that.
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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1047 on: September 29, 2020, 08:07:56 »
I guess one could also apply that saying to those whom believe modern-day media is actually that.

You could.  Modern day or even past media should always be viewed critically one way or another.

Those that just dismiss it outright though are missing the “critical” part though. 
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Offline Brihard

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1048 on: September 29, 2020, 08:26:58 »
When they prove Trump colluded with Russia or committed any other treasonous act, I will capitulate and be happy to see him dealt with, but that hasn’t happened. Manafort’s fraud from years before Trump are not relevant to the Russia collusion hoax and you know it.  Flynn as incoming NSA had every right to speak with foreign reps. The Flynn case has unravelled and revealed how the former admin directed the hit job.

When you’re willing to discuss the very real crimes committed by the former administration, investigation ongoing and expanding, I’m happy to engage.  I thought you’d be quite interested and critical of the abuses by high level LE and other people in authoritative positions, yet you ignore that part.

Your boy Mueller with the vast powers as a special counsel and unlimited resources failed to find anything on Trump that was even impeachable let alone criminally liable. Think about that. If Trump had farted in the wrong direction they’d be stringing him up (impeachment confirmed by senate, resign, criminal liability). If there was criminal culpability, Mueller would have reported that so Pelosi had the ammunition to impeach.  Nothing like that happened.

When you’re willing to talk about something more substantive than an obvious hit piece by the Atlantic or NY Times, let’s do it.

This is a thread about the current US presidency, so I’ll stick with that. And just to pick at a nuance, Trump *was* impeached. Impeachment happens in the house. Quite predictably the Senate turned on almost exact party lines on the matter.

Flynn and Manafort are but two of the numerous members of Trump’s circle who are now convicted criminals, not least of all his own lawyer, for acts committed in the course of helping his client. There are several others as you well know, and Trump himself and his family continue to face considerable legal scrutiny on various matters in various jurisdictions. I’ve always felt there’s some merit to the concept of ‘being judged by the company you keep’. I feel it fair to draw inferences about Trump’s character and ethics based on the actions of those doing his bidding.

Now, on the plus side, we’ve gained some clarity in the past few days- we at least now know they when he referred to himself as a ‘stable genius’, neither should be interpreted as meaning ‘financially’. Not looking for for ‘legally’, either. That IRS audit and the findings regarding the money he funnelled to his kids will be interesting.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1049 on: September 29, 2020, 08:52:10 »
This is a thread about the current US presidency, so I’ll stick with that. And just to pick at a nuance, Trump *was* impeached. Impeachment happens in the house. Quite predictably the Senate turned on almost exact party lines on the matter.

And for context, this is the US Senate's definition of impeachment:

Quote
Impeachment

If a federal official commits a crime or otherwise acts improperly, the House of Representatives may impeach—formally charge—that official. If the official subsequently is convicted in a Senate impeachment trial, he is removed from office.

Just like there is a difference between charging and convicting someone, there is a difference between impeaching and convicting a federal official.  So while President Trump wasn't convicted, he certainly was impeached and will always have that on record.

https://www.senate.gov/reference/Index/Impeachment.htm
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