Author Topic: General Election: Oct 21, 2019  (Read 49148 times)

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Offline Haggis

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #550 on: October 17, 2019, 06:35:42 »
If the voting really turns out to be this divided on the left and by some miracle the Conservatives end up forming a government, it had better be a majority otherwise we will be right back at this in less than 6 months.

When I walked out of the advance poll on Monday I said "see you in four years".  The poll worker responded "maybe sooner".  ;D
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 07:57:09 by Haggis »
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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #551 on: October 17, 2019, 07:26:03 »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #552 on: October 17, 2019, 08:31:57 »
I love Journeyman's idea about having the government come together every 6 months to decide if any policies have to change or anything needs to be done.


I like the PPCs idea of less government.
We need more control of where money from taxes are spent. Seeing stupid tweets bragging about sending millions of dollars to whoever is annoying as hell.
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #553 on: October 17, 2019, 09:36:31 »
This was posted a short time ago on Twitter from Obama.  I'm curious to see if this will help Trudeau.  Elections Canada when asked has already said this is not interfer

I was proud to work with Justin Trudeau as President. He's a hard-working, effective leader who takes on big issues like climate change. The world needs his progressive leadership now, and I hope our neighbors to the north support him for another term.

Interesting how foreigners inserting themselves into Canadian elections is generally thought to be a bad thing...unless it is designed to help the Liberals.

Thought experiment time: what would be the general (media) reaction in Canada to GW Bush endorsing Andrew Scheer, I wonder?

Offline Journeyman

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #554 on: October 17, 2019, 09:44:21 »
Thought experiment time: what would be the general (media) reaction in Canada to GW Bush endorsing Andrew Scheer, I wonder?
a) it would be worlds better than a Trump endorsement.  ("dammit, we've managed to keep Ford muzzled, and now this...")

b) you could spin a Bush 43 endorsement as embracing LGBQT+ support.... since Ellen DeGeneres and GWB are supposedly buddies.   ;)
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #555 on: October 17, 2019, 12:12:40 »
Just for info, the Vivian Krause very one-sided documentary "Over A Barrell" is availablr (FREE ~ until 31 Oct 19) on Fracebook.

It's very one-sided because of most of the people she enamed refused to be interviewed.
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #556 on: October 17, 2019, 12:46:11 »
My political preference would be some form of Green/Conservative Coalition Government.  I know, this sounds crazy, but hear me out!

I am what you would call a "Progressive Conservative", I am fiscally conservative but believe strongly in a lot of social issues i.e. Indigenous reconciliation, LGBTQ+ rights, pro-choice, etc.  In those cases, I like what the Green Party is saying a lot. 

I also think that we have a duty to look after the environment and believe in ethical/responsible business practices and that means doing our best for the environment; however, we also can't destroy our economy.  I believe there are some compromises that can be made though and that the Green Party and Conservative Party could actually work well together.  I very much liked that Elizabeth May said she would support Canadians using Canadian oil and ween us off foreign oil.  For that to happen, we need pipelines so there is already some compromise that could happen there.  Likewise, I think a fairly significant portion of taxes the Government generates from oil royalties should go towards Green Initiatives. 

I like large portions of the Green Party Foreign & Defence Platform particularly the focus on banning foreign importation of oil and cancelling the AFV deal with Saudi Arabia.  As well, I think the Greens would actually beef up our military in certain respects, particularly in light of this piece from their platform:

Quote
The security and defence of the nation is a fundamental responsibility of any sovereign government. Not since the end of the Cold War 30 years ago has global security seemed so precarious. Contributing to this is the disruption being caused by climate change – referred to by military analysts as a threat multiplier. This will only worsen as the Earth heats up, including in Canada.

One thing I didn't like was that they would recommend banning autonomous weapon systems, that like the Anti Land-Mine Treaty is militarily stupid and I would strongly advise against doing that.  I suspect this would be quickly stricken from their policy if they ever had the opportunity to form part of a government and again, compromise could be sought.

For any of this too happen though, the Greens would need to become significantly stronger than they are at present.  Not going to happen this election but could it in the future? I think there is a lot in the Green platform that Rural Conservative Voting Canadians (who honestly have the most to lose from Climate Change) could like from the Green Party Platform.  All this being said, I know it is a crazy idea but it could just be a match made in heaven.

+60 « Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 13:18:20 by Humphrey Bogart »

Online Remius

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #557 on: October 17, 2019, 13:06:22 »

I am what you would call a "Progressive Conservative", I am fiscally conservative but believe strongly in a lot of social issues i.e. Indigenous reconciliation, LGBTQ+ rights, pro-choice, etc.  ,

All this being said, I know it is a crazy idea but it could just be a match made in heaven.

I am politically about the same as you.

The only problem with your match made in heaven though is pipelines.  One would want them all over heaven, the other wants them sent to hell.  Either way someone will get dirty...
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Offline mariomike

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #558 on: October 17, 2019, 13:15:15 »
Sometimes I wonder if dictators are really so bad hahaha

Germany tried that experiment. We know how it ended.
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #559 on: October 17, 2019, 13:17:22 »
I am politically about the same as you.

The only problem with your match made in heaven though is pipelines.  One would want them all over heaven, the other wants them sent to hell.  Either way someone will get dirty...

I think the big issue for the Green Party WRT pipelines is what happens after the Oil leaves the pipe and gets put on a ship and this is also a Major gripe for many people in British Columbia.  It makes sense given the strong Green presence on Vancouver Island & the surrounding Gulf Islands and honestly, it should be a concern.  A major shipping accident akin to the Exxon Valdez would be absolutely devastating not just ecologically but also economically for Lower Mainland, Vancouver & Gulf Islands, BC and we should take it seriously. 

If and when Trans-Mountain Pipeline does get built, we should have multiple contingency and response plans to deal with such an incident and the Federal Government should have a robust spill response capability.  Given how the Federal Government has severely mismanaged the Coast Guard, Navy and DFO in the past, I see little hope for this yet.   


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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #560 on: October 17, 2019, 13:18:41 »
I think the big issue for the Green Party WRT pipelines is what happens after the Oil leaves the pipe and gets put on a ship and this is also a Major gripe for many people in British Columbia.  It makes sense given the strong Green presence on Vancouver Island & the surrounding Gulf Islands and honestly, it should be a concern.  A major shipping accident akin to the Exxon Valdez would be absolutely devastating not just ecologically but also economically for Lower Mainland, Vancouver & Gulf Islands, BC and we should take it seriously. 

If and when Trans-Mountain Pipeline does get built, we should have multiple contingency and response plans to deal with such an incident and the Federal Government should have a robust spill response capability.  Given how the Federal Government has severely mismanaged the Coast Guard, Navy and DFO in the past, I see little hope for this yet.

They seem to have no troubles with selling coal.
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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #561 on: October 17, 2019, 13:23:10 »
I think the big issue for the Green Party WRT pipelines is what happens after the Oil leaves the pipe and gets put on a ship and this is also a Major gripe for many people in British Columbia.  It makes sense given the strong Green presence on Vancouver Island & the surrounding Gulf Islands and honestly, it should be a concern.  A major shipping accident akin to the Exxon Valdez would be absolutely devastating not just ecologically but also economically for Lower Mainland, Vancouver & Gulf Islands, BC and we should take it seriously. 

If and when Trans-Mountain Pipeline does get built, we should have multiple contingency and response plans to deal with such an incident and the Federal Government should have a robust spill response capability.  Given how the Federal Government has severely mismanaged the Coast Guard, Navy and DFO in the past, I see little hope for this yet.

If oil is extracted responsibly think about how many green energy programs or social programs that could fund.  but yes, you are right hope is fleeting indeed that they can get it right.
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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #562 on: October 17, 2019, 13:30:34 »
Image was too big to load. So, just a link about Doug and Mr. Scheer.  :)
https://torontosun.com/opinion/cartoons/donato-oct-13
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #563 on: October 17, 2019, 13:38:14 »
They seem to have no troubles with selling coal.

Well Coal also isn't lighter than water and won't kill off the commercial fishing industry, commercial whale watching, tourism, threaten property values, etc.  If there is an incident, because coal is a solid, it will sink to the bottom of the ocean as sediment and while this may be somewhat bad for a few crabs and flora and fauna in the immediate area, it won't do much damage otherwise.  Yes Coal contains bad chemicals but these are only really released and made harmful when Coal is burned. There was a Coal Ship that sank off Victoria in 1891 and they did a study on it and found it too be less polluting than the sewage Victoria dumps in to the Ocean every single day.

It's all about the economy my friend.  A shipping accident involving Coal won't impact large numbers of peoples livelihoods, devastate property values for rich owners, etc.  A large oil spill like the Exxon Valdez will.

If oil is extracted responsibly think about how many green energy programs or social programs that could fund.  but yes, you are right hope is fleeting indeed that they can get it right.

This is really my point, Oil is still going to need to be extracted, refined and used for many different applications outside the automobile, even then, in certain scenarios it is still more useful to use fossil fuels at this time, particularly in extremely cold climates.

Offline Colin P

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #564 on: October 17, 2019, 13:59:02 »
Some of the Greens I met in the North could meet the requirements for a Green/Conservative coalition, much more practical than their urban cousins. What the Conservatives should be focusing on is habitat protection and construction. Increasing wetlands is all round good and you can also employ First Nations to build a lot of it. The CPC if they will need to go the FN's and talk about employment, certainly here in BC, the bands will listen to that and want it. Also promoting fish stock management and hatcheries will also help. 

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #565 on: October 17, 2019, 14:15:44 »
Some of the Greens I met in the North could meet the requirements for a Green/Conservative coalition, much more practical than their urban cousins. What the Conservatives should be focusing on is habitat protection and construction. Increasing wetlands is all round good and you can also employ First Nations to build a lot of it. The CPC if they will need to go the FN's and talk about employment, certainly here in BC, the bands will listen to that and want it. Also promoting fish stock management and hatcheries will also help.

This is what I mean, there is lots of common ground to be found and many shared interests.  I am 100% about collaboration as opposed to confrontation which seems to be the way of the world nowadays.

I would have considered voting Liberal but the Socialist bent of Justin Trudeau as well as the numerous questions around Ethics really have made me question his integrity as a person.  the Jody-Wilson Raybould/Mark Norman affairs were really the straw that broke the camels back for me with respect to his ability to effectively govern.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #566 on: October 17, 2019, 14:17:24 »
I think the big issue for the Green Party WRT pipelines is what happens after the Oil leaves the pipe and gets put on a ship and this is also a Major gripe for many people in British Columbia.  It makes sense given the strong Green presence on Vancouver Island & the surrounding Gulf Islands and honestly, it should be a concern.  A major shipping accident akin to the Exxon Valdez would be absolutely devastating not just ecologically but also economically for Lower Mainland, Vancouver & Gulf Islands, BC and we should take it seriously. 

If and when Trans-Mountain Pipeline does get built, we should have multiple contingency and response plans to deal with such an incident and the Federal Government should have a robust spill response capability.  Given how the Federal Government has severely mismanaged the Coast Guard, Navy and DFO in the past, I see little hope for this yet.

The big issue for the Greens and pipelines is to corner the market on votes from people under 30 most of whom, of course, aren't working in jobs that make alot of money, own houses, have kids, or who are otherwise heavily invested in the traditional economy yet.

This also helps explain the ridiculous hyperbole around climate change ('Thank Gawd for Gerta' - Elizabeth May) that's ramping up, to get this demographic to vote Green now before they 'grow up', in the traditional economic sense, in the 4 years before the next election because young people don't tend to vote, at all.

It also helps explain their move to change the electoral system to one that recognizes the popular vote, as opposed to riding-centric (whatever that's called because I can't remember right now):                     

What’s fuelling Canada’s Green Party?

The potential Green voter pool is 35% among those 60 or older, and a whopping 58% among those under 30. The accessible Green pool is large enough to have a major impact on every part of the country.

https://abacusdata.ca/whats-fueling-canadas-green-party/
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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #567 on: October 17, 2019, 15:34:19 »
I think the big issue for the Green Party WRT pipelines is what happens after the Oil leaves the pipe and gets put on a ship and this is also a Major gripe for many people in British Columbia.  It makes sense given the strong Green presence on Vancouver Island & the surrounding Gulf Islands and honestly, it should be a concern.  A major shipping accident akin to the Exxon Valdez would be absolutely devastating not just ecologically but also economically for Lower Mainland, Vancouver & Gulf Islands, BC and we should take it seriously...

The irony is that hydrogen in the hydrocarbon oil resolved to water upon combustion, however, there isn’t any hydrogen in the BC coal exported to China, India, Japan and elsewhere from Roberts Point on the lower mainland. When burned, that makes predominantly CO2...but that’s okay in the eyes of British Columbians... ::)

And a post-PANAMAX container ship accident would have no effect on the environment because they operate on pixie-dust and unicorn farts, not maritime distillate oil. ;)

Offline Underway

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #568 on: October 17, 2019, 15:36:27 »
Some of the Greens I met in the North could meet the requirements for a Green/Conservative coalition, much more practical than their urban cousins. What the Conservatives should be focusing on is habitat protection and construction. Increasing wetlands is all round good and you can also employ First Nations to build a lot of it. The CPC if they will need to go the FN's and talk about employment, certainly here in BC, the bands will listen to that and want it. Also promoting fish stock management and hatcheries will also help.

Green Party in Canada many years back before May took over had a large group of disaffected PC members.  They are the wing of the party that have more or less been pushed to the side by the Green Marxists.  However in looking at the Green platform you can still see their fingerprints on it, as the Green Party as still much more centre than the NDP generally.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #569 on: October 17, 2019, 16:07:18 »
Finally got a flyer in the front door from the Communist Party, which also has a candidate in my riding (wow, a full house!)

One point which I find interesting is when you read it, at least 2/3 of the issues and platform planks are indistinguishable from the Liberal, Conservative, NDP or Green platforms. If most of the parties are offering the same thing, with only a few minor detail differences, then the election is essentially arguing over what shade of yellow we want to paint the kitchen. While I also have a PPC candidate like virtually every riding, I'm starting to think that for 2024 there should be a concerted effort to get all 14 registered parties to field candidates in all ridings. Canadians need more than a very limited palette of choices when it comes to electoral politics.

https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=pol&dir=par&document=index&lang=e

    Animal Protection Party of Canada
    Bloc Québécois
    Canada's Fourth Front
    Canadian Nationalist Party
    Christian Heritage Party of Canada
    Communist Party of Canada
    Conservative Party of Canada
    Green Party of Canada
    Liberal Party of Canada
    Libertarian Party of Canada
    Marijuana Party
    Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada
    National Citizens Alliance of Canada
    New Democratic Party
    Parti pour l'Indépendance du Québec
    Parti Rhinocéros Party
    People’s Party of Canada
    Progressive Canadian Party
    Stop Climate Change
    The United Party of Canada
    Veterans Coalition Party of Canada

The other part, which I found rather hilarious, is the section about the military:
Quote
"While Trudeau talks about peace, he's increased military spending by 73%, and his Foreign Minister has involved Canada in regime change operations in Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua, Syria and now China..."

I would have expected at least a phone call asking about my availability for regime change operations in China, since that might require a bit of extra manpower (if everyone else is already busy in Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua and Syria). Oddly, real missions in Latvia, Ukraine and Iraq were overlooked. You would hope that people seeking public office would be at least minimally informed, but I suppose that is too much to expect.

The evening of the 21rst will be interesting.
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #570 on: October 17, 2019, 16:17:40 »
The irony is that hydrogen in the hydrocarbon oil resolved to water upon combustion, however, there isn’t any hydrogen in the BC coal exported to China, India, Japan and elsewhere from Roberts Point on the lower mainland. When burned, that makes predominantly CO2...but that’s okay in the eyes of British Columbians... ::)

And a post-PANAMAX container ship accident would have no effect on the environment because they operate on pixie-dust and unicorn farts, not maritime distillate oil. ;)

No doubt, I also sometimes think the devastation caused by environmental accidents on the water is greatly overstated.  One thing that is never talked about which is the greatest environmental accident on the water of all time, WWII and its shipwrecks:



With the combined total of ships sunk adding up to 7807 vessels (that is an estimate based on known numbers btw, the actual total could be even greater).  If you were to believe the Sierra Club and their messaging about oil spills, the North Atlantic should be proverbial apocalyptic wasteland by now.

That's a lot of crap being spewed in to the water and we have all somehow managed to survive  8)




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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #571 on: October 17, 2019, 16:22:26 »

The other part, which I found rather hilarious, is the section about the military:
I would have expected at least a phone call asking about my availability for regime change operations in China, since that might require a bit of extra manpower (if everyone else is already busy in Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua and Syria). Oddly, real missions in Latvia, Ukraine and Iraq were overlooked. You would hope that people seeking public office would be at least minimally informed, but I suppose that is too much to expect.

The evening of the 21rst will be interesting.

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #572 on: October 17, 2019, 17:29:11 »
….but the Socialist bent of Justin Trudeau as well as the numerous questions around Ethics really have made me question his integrity as a person.  the Jody-Wilson Raybould/Mark Norman affairs were really the straw that broke the camels back for me with respect to his ability to effectively govern.
For "Socialist," I think I'd be more prone to label it as 'virtue signalling' -- I really (no, not political name-calling), honestly haven't seen any sort of serious Socialist proposals from him -- just posturing for media/global gatherings' coverage.
I think (OK, now  being catty) that between his entitled upbringing and his Mom & Fidel.... any remotely Socialist economics understanding is limited to dorm room poster sayings.

Notice: I'm neither a Socialist, nor have I played one on TV.... but I do read a fair bit. 8)


As for his integrity:   :brickwall:    :waiting:    :not-again:   [go on, try to pick any only two]
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Online Remius

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #573 on: October 17, 2019, 18:25:30 »
latest poll tracker sees the gap in seat projections between the CPC and LPC grow.  CPC seems to have dropped. 


https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/


Maybe their platform release is being reflected.  I’m in the PS and a lot of people I work with we’re planning to vote CPC until they saw their plans for the PS...
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #574 on: October 17, 2019, 18:28:28 »

That's a lot of crap being spewed in to the water and we have all somehow managed to survive  8)

And crap not just in the water. The air has been full of it lately  :facepalm:
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